The Genocide of the Saiyan, REDUX (Dragon Ball)

[Omegabronic]

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[Omegabronic]

Bump

 

[Damage3245]

@Nullflowerblush

 

[Omegabronic]

bump

 

[Omegabronic]

In Ep. 19 of Dragon Ball Super, "Despair Redux! The Return of the Evil Emperor, Frieza!", Frieza is depicted destroying Planet Vegeta in a flashback.
In Dragon Ball Super: Broly, Frieza is depicting destroying Planet Vegeta in a flashback.

Spoiler

Currently, Frieza is accepted as Dwarf Star level+ (4.8947252288836208908512638183148 Quettatons of TNT), as per the calculation of the former depiction.
This thread and this calculation of the latter depiction intend to revise that, instead scaling Frieza to Large Planet level (7.44200741 Ronnatons of TNT).

Here you suggest to use the 7.44200741 ronnatona end for the scaling

How does this affect scaling?
Eh.

Spoiler: Updated Scaling Chain

Covering only the major points...

First Form Frieza, <50% Final Form Frieza, Post-Zenkai Goku = >622.609943 Ronnatons (High 5-A)
Kaio-ken x20 Goku, 50% Frieza = >12.4521989 Quettatons (Low 4-C)
100% Frieza = >24.9043978 Quettatons
SSJ Goku, SSJ Future Gohan = >31.1304972 Quettatons
Future Android 17 = >62.2609944 Quettatons
Semi-Perfect Cell = >124.521989 Quettatons (Low 4-C+)
Super Trunks = >1245.21989 Quettatons (High 4-C)
Suppressed Perfect Cell, Cell Juniors, Piccolo = <~1245.21989 Quettatons
Supreme Kai, Gohan = >~1245.21989 Quettatons
SSJ Goku = >2490.43978 Quettatons
SSJ Gohan, Cell, Full Power Cell = >2.60506253 Foe
Powerhouse Cell >26.0506253 Foe (4-B)

Let's discuss.

But here you use the other end of 622 ronnatons instead

Why is that?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Why is that?

According to KLOL506, the higher end takes precedence, as the majority of the energy within the explosion is released by that point.

 

[Damage3245]

According to KLOL506, the higher end takes precedence, as the majority of the energy within the explosion is released by that point.

Vote is currently split I believe with Therefir and myself voting for the low end. Clover and KLOL voting for the high end.

 

[KLOL506]

I can tag a few more CGMs to take a look.

@AbaddonTheDisappointment @Dark-Carioca @Migue79 @DemonGodMitchAubin @Dalesean027 @Aguywhodoesthings

 

[KLOL506]

According to KLOL506, the higher end takes precedence, as the majority of the energy within the explosion is released by that point.

Pretty much this.

 

[Migue79]

Put me down for neutral. I can see both sides of the argument.

I'll stay put for any other CGM comments.

 

[Dark-Carioca]

Questionable canonicity overall aside ('cause sure the Broly movie is the latest new iteration of this event but what we see [in more detail] in the old special is what is referenced in the original manga for reference on how Planet Vegeta was destroyed), KLOL's arguments make a bit more sense to me.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

is what is referenced in the original manga

That was retroactively replaced in continuity by Dragon Ball Minus.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

What we see [in more detail] in the old special is what is referenced in the original manga for reference on how Planet Vegeta was destroyed

Pretty sure the old special Planet Vegeta destruction ends up at High 4-C and is only used for the Toei continuity, we currently use a scene from the DBS anime

 

[Damage3245]

the higher end takes precedence, as the majority of the energy within the explosion is released by that point.

I'm not sure why the energy being released by that point would be a factor.

Since what is being calced is the K.E. of the debris, using the more complete timeframe makes more sense.

@Nullflowerblush Is the screenshot used for the K.E. calc taken from the end of the scene? If so, then there'd be no reason to use the 1.75 seconds end.

 

[KLOL506]

I'm not sure why the energy being released by that point would be a factor.

Because most of the mass is intact at that particular point and the velocity is also retained in that one initial point.

Since what is being calced is the K.E. of the debris, using the more complete timeframe makes more sense.

I disagree, since most of the debris is reduced to miniscule particles at that point and would not retain the original mass or velocity, and we see the debris slowing down massively.

@Nullflowerblush Is the screenshot used for the K.E. calc taken from the end of the scene? If so, then there'd be no reason to use the 1.75 seconds end.

Yes but the planet expands to that point in large chunks at the 1.75 second mark before losing velocity and volume. I checked going frame-by-frame. The last frame is most likely just used as a reference point but I believe the 1.75 second mark scene should do just as nicely.

 

[Damage3245]

Yes but the planet expands to that point in large chunks at the 1.75 second mark before losing velocity and volume. I checked going frame-by-frame. The last frame is most likely just used as a reference point but I believe the 1.75 second mark scene should do just as nicely.

If we're going to use the timeframe of 1.75 seconds then we should use the distance the debris travelled in 1.75 seconds, not what it travelled in 16 seconds.

 

[KLOL506]

If we're going to use the timeframe of 1.75 seconds then we should use the distance the debris travelled in 1.75 seconds, not what it travelled in 16 seconds.

The expansion distance is the same tho. You can highlight the edge of the debris right before it cuts to Frieza.

 

[Omegabronic]

Bump

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Another common issue is that a lot of planet busting feats are downplayed due to calculating average velocity as opposed to initial velocity and that's especially true for planets with really high G's.

I still feel like this concern is being overlooked.

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

The expansion distance is the same tho. You can highlight the edge of the debris right before it cuts to Frieza.

This is untrue. You can (barely) see in this shot that the planet just got fragmented, meaning the fragments moved off-screen while Freeza was talking. I think it's better to use a timeframe of around 7 seconds (roughly the time from the planet beginning to explode to the first frame after Freeza talking) instead.

 

[KLOL506]

The fragments have slowed down far too much and are basically non-existent at that point, thus making that scene completely unusable, as an average speed won't be maintained during that kind of deceleration (Which already puts into question the feat's usability) and the fact that the original mass isn't even there to use for KE.

What DDM said must also be taken into account.

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

The fragments have slowed down far too much and are basically non-existent at that point, thus making that scene completely unusable, as an average speed won't be maintained during that kind of deceleration (Which already puts into question the feat's probability) and the fact that the original mass isn't even there to use for KE.

I'd agree with you if they moved at all in the first shot. The screenshot I posted is the last frame of the scene. Check the WatchFrameByFrame yourself, the fragments are barely moved by frame 2337 and the camera switches to Freeza at frame 2338.

 

[Damage3245]

@CRIMPSUMPSKI2 does appear to be correct here, upon viewing the frame-by-frame.

 

[KLOL506]

The bigger fragments are beyond the center debris at the edge, it's just not visible here because the footage is low quality.

Here is a clearer shot:

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

The bigger fragments are beyond the center debris at the edge, it's just not visible here because the footage is low quality.

Now that you mention it yeah..


Btw another thing I noticed is that the blog seems to use the diameter of the explosion instead of the radius. The distance used should be half of what it is now

 

[KLOL506]

Now that you mention it yeah, although it doesn't seem like there's that many.

Because they're still in one piece and are larger than the debris in the center.

Btw another thing I noticed is that the blog seems to use the diameter of the explosion instead of the radius. The distance used should be half of what it is now

6371000/1.75 = 3640571.42857 m/s

Mass is still 5.965e+25 kg

Dumping the values into the relativistic calculator, we get 395801059872518878212695062117909756463 J or 3.96e+38 J (High 5-A, Dwarf Star level).

Actually no wait, it should use the distance from the center of the planet to the farthest corner the large debris reaches before it cuts to Frieza. Not like it'll wield any magnificent results.

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

Actually no wait, it should use the distance from the center of the planet to the farthest corner the large debris reaches before it cuts to Frieza. Not like it'll wield any magnificent results.

I tried doing that earlier, the difference was like 1 pixel

 

[KLOL506]

I did it with the HD version and I tried going down diagonally. From the center, it's about 500px while the planet itself is 697px.

 

[Nierre]

bump

 

[Omegabronic]

Bump

 

[Ednaxel2]

Bump

 

[Golden_Void]

Why not just keep the original and wait to see if Super retcons the movies with the series as it's always done?

 

[Damage3245]

Why not just keep the original and wait to see if Super retcons the movies with the series as it's always done?

We'd be waiting forever because Dragon Ball is getting a new weird anime where all the characters have turned into kids.


I don't know what we do now. The OP has vanished from their own thread.

 

[Omegabronic]

We'd be waiting forever because Dragon Ball is getting a new weird anime where all the characters have turned into kids.


I don't know what we do now. The OP has vanished from their own thread.

just continue until one end gets accepted and then apply it i guess

tagging a few calc group members and then wait

 

[KLOL506]

I made a sandbox for my calc with the points I discussed.

I can put it in a blog in the coming minutes.

 

[KLOL506]

Here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U..._Super:_Broly_-_Frieza_Destroys_Planet_Vegeta

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

This seems to be already applied to the profiles but people forgot to remove the + from Dwarf Star level

 

[Ednaxel2]

This seems to be already applied to the profiles but people forgot to remove the + from Dwarf Star level

We need a new scaling chain blog for it to make changes

 

[KLOL506]

This seems to be already applied to the profiles but people forgot to remove the + from Dwarf Star level

WTH, it shouldn't be applied yet, wait for a few more CGMs to evaluate the calc. This is DB we're talking about.

Undo the edits for now.

 

[Omegabronic]

This seems to be already applied to the profiles but people forgot to remove the + from Dwarf Star level

It isn't tho?