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Trick or treat, give me a 2-B Sonic

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If it is established that Illumina's dimension is a universal sized space-time continuum and it is called a world by the same person that calls the other dreams worlds and it is established that there is no real way to differentiate between them, then it should be assumed all dreams are universal sized space-time continuum's due to character consistency.
 
Greenshifter said:
If it is established that Illumina's dimension is a universal sized space-time continuum and it is called a world by the same person that calls the other dreams worlds. Then it should be assumed all dreams are universal sized space-time continuum's due to character consistency.
Click to expand...
Holy shit. This. This makes the most sense.
 
At this point, any argument is beimg brought up here. Shuffle's canonicity, now dreams being called worlds??? There are literally multiple times throughout the games where a dimension is called a world. Pay attention to context, people, because that matters.
 
Greenshifter said:
If it is established that Illumina's dimension is a universal sized space-time continuum and it is called a world by the same person that calls the other dreams worlds and it is established that there is no real way to differentiate between them, then it should be assumed all dreams are universal sized space-time continuum's due to character consistency.
Click to expand...
"It was established" when? Your wet dreams?

What is it with you people and ignoring reasoned arguments in favor of headcanon?

@Genericstickman

Your point still doesn't prove that Maginaryworld is 2-B.
 
@Malomtek I said "if", I don't have time to establish things for them, I'm just saying what I think should be enough for an upgrade.
 
wow someone acknowledged my point!

also it was evidence that dreams can indeed be universal in size since Magineryworld itself is a dream
 
1. The fact that the characters interact with the dream worlds as if they were normal places contradicts that

2. That's just to show that the dreams come from everywhere, the timeline versus dimension thing is irrelevant to our point

3 That was supporting proof

4. If something mirrors a already existing reality and it's show to have stars and galaxies then we assume it mirrors everything, not just a small part, aka Occam's razor, and they are definitvely not smaller then normal because again Sonic and Co scale im height normally and don't appear as Giants

You are doing a appeal to authority, just because two staff members disagree doesn't mean you are right, quality is what matters and the latter hasn't debated and DDM'S are being refuted
 
@Malomtek

1) All dreams are real in Maginaryworld. The game makes this clear.

2) Regardless of the number of dimensions, it's 2-B because of the number of people who all have dreams. And "Sonic cultists" 10/10 argument.

3) Didn't say this. That's a strawman.

4) Yes they mirror Sonic's world which is a universe. "Much more minuscule size of those actual locations" now that is blatantly false.

5) The fact that you can easily see numerous stars in the dream worlds? That's not 4-B.
 
1. People haven't interacted with other people's mindscapes in fiction before, and it doesn't made those mindscapes real, tangible places.

2. It is relevant, especially if the Sonicverse distinguishes between the two, and it would seem that it does. I'd have a hard time arguing how the Special Zone(s) could merely exist in a different timeline.

3. It's still wrong.

4. Or it mirrors just that realm and has a few stars and a "galaxy like object" (again, NOT a proven galaxy) within it.

You still need staff approval for an upgrade to be accepted, according to Ant. And it looks like the staff aren't going your way.

It's unfortunate, but it seems that Sonic will not become 2-B today.
 
1. Wait, are you saying that just because it didn't happen in real life the dreams aren't real? It's very clear that they are real, it's stayed where dreams become reality and the fact that each character interacts with it normaly, again Occam's razor would imply it's real since yours requires way more assumptions.

2 it's still 2-B, it is irrelevant because that only increases how high into 2-B it is

4. Occam's razor goes against that since it requires more assumptions, also if a thing looks like and acts like a galaxy then Occam's razor would imply it is one

What matters is the quality, if the staff against it has no arguments against It then It goes through, a staff says no isn't the end

Your atitude is coming very trollish with those insults and attacks, tone It down
 
Sera EX said:
Yeah, looking at the blog, I'm not seeing 2-B from this. But of course, I don't like rushing things.
Click to expand...
Reasons please? If this doesn't go through I want it to be because of actual arguments, not because some staff said no
 
Not sure how many times this is posted due to Fandom glitch, but here it goes

I did just see above that Sera kudos my comment and she herself said, she's not seeing anything worthy of 2-B if you scroll a few posts above. Anyway, going to have to repeat myself but I'll do it yet again because people are missing the point and getting hostile about it. Matt and I have actually both been rather respectful and are just doing our jobs; nothing more and nothing less.

Anyway, none of the dream worlds are remotely stated to be universes, only the entirety of MaginaryWorld is. And while being called Universe as opposed to Multiverse or Meta-Universe doesn't automatically make it hammered at Low 2-C, it is a supporting evidence for the next point. Being the context.

Also, the next argument for why Dreams are allegedly universes is because of this quote. However, "Dreams becoming true" or "Dreams becoming reality" =/= the idea that dreams are entirety realities or are transformed into alternate realities like what's explained in some other verses rather than just a piece of reality. It's the equivalent of saying someone or something came into existence and comparing it to someone literally being all existence. Or even the statement that the dreams are from alternate dimensions; while that is a Multiversal range feat; or Low Multiversal in this case, it's not a multiversal feat without more in depth context. Those dreams are merely pieces of those alternate dimensions or came from alternate dimensions rather than the dreams themselves literally being alternate dimensions. There's no context to prove that the dream worlds are anything beyond pocket realities rather than universes. I don't care how many times I need to explain this to people when it's very basic; it's just the plain truth.

And even the text "Mirroring something" doesn't have full proof of them being universe sized. Yes, mirroring Sonic's World does mean they mirror certain parts of it; this can include the planet, or even the stars visible in the sky. But that doesn't by default prove it mirrors the entirety of the universe he's from. And more importantly, the Dream Worlds have no proof of having alternate timelines. If they were actually stated to be universes or alternate realities, it would be a different story. But no, it just says they're reality; meaning their physical parts of MaginaryWorld rather than them just being literal alternate realities altogether.

And 4th Dimension Space is not enough supporting evidence as there's no proof if that even has its own space time. It's simply the outerspace of Maginary World that connects dream worlds together like a doorway. Similar to outerspace here connects various planets, stars, and galaxies like a doorway. 4th Dimension space is also much larger than every other dream world put together disproving the liklihood of the Dream Worlds themselves being anywhere near as big as 4th Dimension Space.

Any yes, the true toxicity does come from off site stuff. And I agree with Malomtek 100% that no fictional character is worth selling your souls to the devil for. And making demanding "Let the upgrade happen" just because the majority agree with it without letting staff members do their jobs is never how things work around here. And it's the exact same tactic ZaStando and EarthyBoy do. If that's how you guys are going to act every time staff members reject a Sonic upgrade, then you guys are no better than they are. I don't care if the pushing is for 2-B Super Sonic or 1-A base Sonic, if the tactics are the same and the context doesn't hold enough weight, the upgrade isn't happening. And I'm actually going to have some sympathy for ZaStando, because as ridiculous as his ideas are, absolutely nothing gives you guys the right to be cyber-bullying him. Yes, there is scanned evidence that you guys are doing to this to him. But that's for another News and Announcement Thread that staff are currently discussing privately.

But anyway, there is still no solid evidence for 2-B and it is best for this thread to be closed. The bombardment is one thing, but the hostility and self fulfilling prophecies used against us is another.
 
@Sera

Thank you for the evaluation.
 
Okay, let's all step back a little here

All of this conflicting back and forth is making things confused, so let's just Shadow and DDM do their sumarries( tho the later seems to have done so) and then make a new thread, a hoppefuly less chaotic one without any name calling to neither people in favor or against It

Everyone okay with this?

Also wasn't everything DDM said already refuted/debunked by others? Repeating yourself doesn't make it right
 
@Antvasima

You're welcome, but honestly Ant I should be the one thanking you from even dropping by here. The amount of high upgrade CRTs being made is ridiculous, between this, the Kingdom Hearts threads, the Persona threads, and the dozen of Marvel/DC threads, it's hard to focus on all this at once, I don't know how you even manage it.
 
@Antvasima and @Sera, I'm also thankful for both of you in your support. And yes, I understand full well about your workload which is why I try to handle the hard parts of threads like this personally. Though, I don't always close threads right away even if I probably should just because I don't want to get painted the wrong way even though some people do try to do that to us all the time.
 
@Sera

Well, I have ADHD and am autistic, so I am used to being both very focused and distracted, as strange as that may seem.

@Medeus

No problem. Would you be willing to write a summary for a new thread and then close this one?
 
I only got only one hour before work as well as some side tasks to take care of before then, but I could after work.
 
I'm not gonna say anything else after this.

Fire bird 3:25

Nature Zone 1:13

Riot Train 3:13

This "galaxy" is the same one they enter for all the dreams because it's a literal level selection. It looks exactly as all the other "galaxies" right and it's an assumption that they're separate or different galaxies. I've yet to see a rebuttal towards this other than "you're just nitpicking". Dreams being in the same "galaxy" doesn't make them a universe.

As for the dreams being outside Fourth Dimensional Space, here Sonic is able to point out the dreams they already traveled to while in the FDS. Entering the FDS doesn't mean dreams exist outside of the FDS. Why? Simply because I can enter outer space from earth, does the earth now exist outside of space?

Anyway that's all, I'm out.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
I'm not gonna say anything else after this.
Fire bird 3:25

Nature Zone 1:13

Riot Train 3:13

This "galaxy" is the same one they enter for all the dreams because it's a literal level selection. It looks exactly as all the other "galaxies" right and it's an assumption that they're separate or different galaxies. I've yet to see a rebuttal towards this other than "you're just nitpicking". Dreams being in the same "galaxy" doesn't make them a universe.
Click to expand...
No, the galaxy appears the same because the dream worlds mirror Sonic's world, so they would have locations that appear identical to each other. This was already debunked.

As for the dreams being outside Fourth Dimensional Space, here Sonic is able to point out the dreams they already traveled to while in the FDS. Entering the FDS doesn't mean dreams exist outside of the FDS. Why? Simply because I can enter outer space from earth, does the earth now exist outside of space?

Anyway that's all, I'm out.

I didn't say this? Don't know why you brought this up.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
OKay, let's please not go too far with that.
Click to expand...
Okay.

But did I hear something about the Sonic supporters in this thread bullying another extremist Sonic supporter?

I guess some things are too absurd even for them. What delightful people, all around.
 
This isn't going through because I see no one has gotten the bar yet And don't want to derail but if you guys truly wanted 2B Sonic, should've stuck on to the Justifications including The Stay Sonic/Martin Adams Books But Nope, Everyone just agreed for some reason dismissed it. If you guys didn't accept that (which wasn't even at all dodgey) then 2B SonicVerse is Dead. Anything else will be Ad Circulum De Infinitum. That's all I really have to say.
 
@Medeus

Thank you.

@All

Let's try to stay calm and polite please.
 
Antvasima said:
@Sera

Well, I have ADHD and am autistic, so I am used to being both very focused and distracted, as strange as that may seem.

@Medeus

No problem. Would you be willing to write a summary for a new thread and then close this one?
Click to expand...
Wasn't it agreed that Shadow would writte the pro 2-B said and DDM the anti 2-B side? So that way both sides would be represented accurataly? So DDM should writte it after Shadow posts his
 
Wouldn't it be a good idea to make a staff only thread, with only Shadow (cause he's the OP) being allowed to comment and everyone else can just ask for their replies to be added by Sera (or another mod) on her wall or something? That way everything won't get derailed or toxic.
 
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