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Transduality type 3 for Maou Gakuin character

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Since MDG fans have a habit of using dull points when in a thread let me break it down
Pain_to12 said:
1. The characters themselves will be what will have to be the one existing in the non-dual state.
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Transduality is the state of being wherein an entity exists
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Pain_to12 said:
2. For type 3 or type 2, it has to be all dual system in a level of reality, nothing was mentioned in your scans about that, it was rather specific
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Type 2
Characters that exist in a nondual state regarding all dual systems within the scope of an entire level of reality
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Type 3
Characters that exist in a nondual state regarding all dual systems within the scope of an entire level of reality
Click to expand...
Pain_to12 said:
3. There must be transcendence of such system for type 2 or type 3
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Type 2
entire level of reality and qualitatively superior
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Type 3
level of reality and qualitatively superior
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Pain_to12 said:
4. For type 3, you must be both and neither at the same time.
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Type 3 refers to characters whose existence belongs to alternate logical states which can't be described just by saying that they exist in both or neither state of a duality, but instead in a unique third state.
Click to expand...
Pain_to12 said:
5. Having the order that allows her to contradict orders does not mean she herself is existing as both the order and the order that it becomes after Contradiction at the same time
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No proof of her been the one existing as both order at the same time or neither at the same time, she just has the power that allows her to contradict orders, I.e. combine two together of opposite factors
Pain_to12 said:
6. Same way your scans shows that it is like the two sides of a coin, you need to show a character existing as the coin.
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Look above
Pain_to12 said:
7. Esques might qualify since he unites all order even those that qualifies but he does not exist independently or transcendent to the great order he governs
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Look above
Pain_to12 said:
8. These at most is type 2, and even the type 2 it self is under a possibility and shaky. As there was no showing or independence or qualitavely beyond those said dual system to start with.
Click to expand...
Look above
 
Tatsumi504 said:
1.) Would'nt matter when that character is an AE being (concept based).
2.) Was clearly mentioned. You just didn't try to understand. The order of absurdity contradicts all orders (order in general not a specific one) evidenced by the statement of being able to contradict eques (the aggregation of all order and will of the world)
3.)The god of abortion was not able to affect her when she utilizes her order. Read the scans slowly while trying to understand it.
4.) Already said she is both and neither at the same time.
5.) Gods literally embody and are bound order and the order of absurdity contradicts all order in general and order in general exists in a state of single indivisible wholeness as shown in the scan
6.)The scan literally talks about the god of creation and destruction, even more so for birth and abortion. Birth and abortion cannot both exist at the same time, "two gods who can never face each other as like the two sides of a coin". Did you read the scans at all?
7.) Great so equals gets TD 2 as well, possibly TD 3
8.)once again, the god of abortion wasn't able to do shit to her, not because of resistance, not because of power null, but because of contradicting order.
9.)Once again, gods are literally AE type 1 beings who embody and are bound to order. She is definitely TD as well.
Click to expand...

Type 2 refers to characters whose existence is described as either being in both states of a duality at once or in neither state. Type 3 refers to characters whose existence belongs to alternate logical states which can't be described just by saying that they exist in both or neither state of a duality, but instead in a unique third state.


Still not type 3 in your wildest dreams dear, possibly type 2
 
Pain_to12 said:
Huh?
Really don't care what you mean here, if something no longer qualifies then it no longer qualifies and yes DT can be wrong too he is human not not a machine.

Read my points above then you should understand

That is as simple as it gets

Me explaining TD to you.
If a certain order is a side of a coin, arcana order allows her to turn it into the another side of the coin I.e. the opposite of the order, that's all
What you are claiming here is that she is existing as both sides at the same time while also not existing as them.

This is as simple as I can explain, try reading the points again one by one.
Click to expand...
As usual, this reeks of your head canon. Arcana contradicts order in general not any specific order. It was also said she can contradict eques (the chief god, aggregation of all order, will of the world).

We are not claiming she's existing as both sides in anyway, that'll even need the TD to TD 1
 
Pain_to12 said:
Point 6
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Bruh just one question, where you get arcana power is to turn order into another side of it??? Even in scan i post that is no feats like that. Even i who read the novel dont find about that

And i dont see why your point 6 is suport your statement: "arcana's power is to turn order into another side of it"
 
Tatsumi504 said:
As usual, this reeks of your head canon. Arcana contradicts order in general not any specific order. It was also said she can contradict eques (the chief god, aggregation of all order, will of the world).
Click to expand...
Tag where I said she contradict just a single order?
I'd wait
Tatsumi504 said:
We are not claiming she's existing as both sides in anyway, that'll even need the TD to TD 1
Click to expand...
TD 3 are characters whose existence belongs to alternate logical states which can't be described just by saying that they exist in both or neither state of a duality, but instead in a unique third state.

She can be both at the same time but not neither at the same time.
Type 3 means you are "not both and both" at the same time.
In simpler terms, you are 0 and 1 at the same time as you are not 0 and 1.
If Arcana power allows her to make 0 and 1 co-exists that's type 2, now she needs to go further to the point where she can be 0 and 1 and also not 0 and 1 at the same time.
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Literally exists as both at the same time and can't be affected due to contradicting it (neither at the same time)
Click to expand...
You really should try reading what I say, I am not disagreeing for the sake of it contrary to whatever you MDG fans jump into conclusion of whoever disagrees with them
Type 2 refers to characters whose existence is described as either being in both states of a duality at once or in neither state. Type 3 refers to characters whose existence belongs to alternate logical states which can't be described just by saying that they exist in both or neither state of a duality, but instead in a unique third state.
Click to expand...
  • Type 2 (General Transduality): Characters that exist in a nondual state regarding all dual systems within the scope of an entire level of reality and qualitatively superior or immune to the effects caused within it. Furthermore, characters with this type can be accurately described as being in either both or neither state of the dualities.
  • Type 3 (Plurality): Characters that exist in a nondual state regarding all dual systems within the scope of an entire level of reality and qualitatively superior or immune to the effects caused within it. Furthermore, these characters exist beyond the classical states of contradiction-allowing logic on some level of existence. That is to say, for any statement A about them they are in a state that can't be described as A is true, A is false, A is simultanously true and false or A is neither true nor false. And so they must obey a many-valued logic with at least 5 truth states, and not be in any of the 4 combinations of true and false mentioned earlier.
Click to expand...

Been in both states is just type 2, like I said this is not even close to type 3
 
Pain_to12 said:
Type 2 refers to characters whose existence is described as either being in both states of a duality at once or in neither state. Type 3 refers to characters whose existence belongs to alternate logical states which can't be described just by saying that they exist in both or neither state of a duality, but instead in a unique third state.


Still not type 3 in your wildest dreams dear, possibly type 2
Click to expand...
Pain dear, I understand you try your best I really do but you're wrong this time.

The entire premise of TD 3 for her is DT saying existing as both and neither at the same time is enough, at most her TD remains type 2 while Anos and graham get type 3.

She contradicts all order (order in general) not any specific order. As a result she is able to
  • Go against order (impossible for the gods)
  • Utilize all order (impossible for a god to utilize an order which isn't theirs except you're eques who embodies all order)
  • Is unaffected by order by contradicting it.
The order of creation and destruction exist as a duality (moon and sun). Militia the goddess of creation couldn't meet with or see her sister avernyu goddess of destruction because of their order (moon and sun). When the moon rises the sun must set. Both couldn't be in effect at the same time yet arcana's order is described as both the sun and moon and neither the sun nor moon at the same time and is able tto use both at the same time while being unaffected by it.

Even more so in the case of wenzel and andelk (gods of birth and abortion). These two can't exist at the same time, even more than creation and destruction, these two share one body. When wenzel comes out, andelk disappears and when andelk is active, wenzel disappears.
They exist as two sides of a coin that can never face each other.
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Pain dear, I understand you try your best I really do but you're wrong this time.

The entire premise of TD 3 for her is DT saying existing as both and neither at the same time is enough, at most her TD remains type 2 while Anos and graham get type 3.

She contradicts all order (order in general) not any specific order. As a result she is able to
  • Go against order (impossible for the gods)
  • Utilize all order (impossible for a god to utilize an order which isn't theirs except you're eques who embodies all order)
  • Is unaffected by order by contradicting it.
The order of creation and destruction exist as a duality (moon and sun). Militia the goddess of creation couldn't meet with or see her sister avernyu goddess of destruction because of their order (moon and sun). When the moon rises the sun must set. Both couldn't be in effect at the same time yet arcana's order is described as both the sun and moon and neither the sun nor moon at the same time and is able tto use both at the same time while being unaffected by it.

Even more so in the case of wenzel and andelk (gods of birth and abortion). These two can't exist at the same time, even more than creation and destruction, these two share one body. When wenzel comes out, andelk disappears and when andelk is active, wenzel disappears.
They exist as two sides of a coin that can never face each other.
Click to expand...
Post in thread 'Transduality type 3 for Maou Gakuin character' https://vsbattles.com/threads/transduality-type-3-for-maou-gakuin-character.141948/post-5069337
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Pain dear, I understand you try your best I really do but you're wrong this time.

The entire premise of TD 3 for her is DT saying existing as both and neither at the same time is enough, at most her TD remains type 2 while Anos and graham get type 3.

She contradicts all order (order in general) not any specific order. As a result she is able to
  • Go against order (impossible for the gods)
  • Utilize all order (impossible for a god to utilize an order which isn't theirs except you're eques who embodies all order)
  • Is unaffected by order by contradicting it.
The order of creation and destruction exist as a duality (moon and sun). Militia the goddess of creation couldn't meet with or see her sister avernyu goddess of destruction because of their order (moon and sun). When the moon rises the sun must set. Both couldn't be in effect at the same time yet arcana's order is described as both the sun and moon and neither the sun nor moon at the same time and is able tto use both at the same time while being unaffected by it.

Even more so in the case of wenzel and andelk (gods of birth and abortion). These two can't exist at the same time, even more than creation and destruction, these two share one body. When wenzel comes out, andelk disappears and when andelk is active, wenzel disappears.
They exist as two sides of a coin that can never face each other.
Click to expand...
I don't want get called I offended Pain. So tell him that we are nor arguing for arcana TD 3. This thread is basically TD 3 upgrade for Anos and Graham. Lmao why you people are arguing TD 3 for Arcana
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
I don't want get called I offended Pain. So tell him that we are nor arguing for arcana TD 3. This thread is basically TD 3 upgrade for Anos and Graham. Lmao why you people are arguing TD 3 for Arcana
Click to expand...
The basis of their upgrade is Arcana and in fact she has a more solid proof for TD than anos and Graham
 
Pain_to12 said:
Tag where I said she contradict just a single order?
I'd wait
Click to expand...
Are you serious right now? What is this?
Pain_to12 said:
Me explaining TD to you.
If a certain order is a side of a coin, arcana order allows her to turn it into the another side of the coin I.e. the opposite of the order, that's all
Click to expand...

Pain_to12 said:
TD 3 are characters whose existence belongs to alternate logical states which can't be described just by saying that they exist in both or neither state of a duality, but instead in a unique third state.

She can be both at the same time but not neither at the same time.
Type 3 means you are "not both and both" at the same time.
In simpler terms, you are 0 and 1 at the same time as you are not 0 and 1.
If Arcana power allows her to make 0 and 1 co-exists that's type 2, now she needs to go further to the point where she can be 0 and 1 and also not 0 and 1 at the same time.
Click to expand...
The entire premise of TD 3 is from DT saying both 0 and 1, neither 0 nor 1 is enough to qualify.

She is both and neither at the same time. She doesn't contradict any specific duality, she contradicts order in general.
General order (all other orders existing in a state of indivisible wholeness, evidenced by eques existence, all gods referring to themselves as one order)
 
Pain_to12 said:
The basis of their upgrade is Arcana and in fact she has a more solid proof for TD than anos and Graham
Click to expand...
Arcana is TD 2 for existing as Contradiction. Anos and Graham are argued here for TD 3 for existing outside of order which includes her. Either way like you if you consider Eques has TD 2 still Anos and Graham gets TD 3. I still don't get the point why Arcana TD 3 is argued here. Even Dereck point outs that's for later .
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Are you serious right now? What is this?



The entire premise of TD 3 is from DT saying both 0 and 1, neither 0 nor 1 is enough to qualify.

She is both and neither at the same time. She doesn't contradict any specific duality, she contradicts order in general.
General order (all other orders existing in a state of indivisible wholeness, evidenced by eques existence, all gods referring to themselves as one order)
Click to expand...
EldemadeDityjon said:
Arcana is TD 2 for existing as Contradiction. Anos and Graham are argued here for TD 3 for existing outside of order which includes her. Either way like you if you consider Eques has TD 2 still Anos and Graham gets TD 3. I still don't get the point why Arcana TD 3 is argued here. Even Dereck point outs that's for later .
Click to expand...
Post in thread 'Transduality type 3 for Maou Gakuin character' https://vsbattles.com/threads/transduality-type-3-for-maou-gakuin-character.141948/post-5069337
 
Pain_to12 said:
You don't get TD 3 for lacking TD 2.
Especially not in this case.
Click to expand...
No you didn't get how order works in the verse. Every order is duality as presented in the OP. Arcana order itself is an order which exists as non duality. Anos and Graham exists as even non duality for that order. Well I can't explain anything better than this. You can always read the complete series then make a downgrade thread if you don't get how order works. For now I would appreciate that we don't circle around with same topic.
 
Pain_to12 said:
You really should try reading what I say, I am not disagreeing for the sake of it contrary to whatever you MDG fans jump into conclusion of whoever disagrees with them



Been in both states is just type 2, like I said this is not even close to type 3
Click to expand...
OK so we say that she is both 0 and 1, but she also created something that is neither 1 nor 0 with her order. How is that not TD 3?
 
EldemadeDityjon said:
No you didn't get how order works in the verse. Every order is duality as presented in the OP. Arcana order itself is an order which exists as non duality. Anos and Graham exists as even non duality for that order. Well I can't explain anything better than this. You can always read the complete series then make a downgrade thread if you don't get how order works. For now I would appreciate that we don't circle around with same topic.
Click to expand...
Said it already this does not actually qualify, like literally call any staffs here preferably
Agnaa and DT, they would tell you themselves.
 
Pain_to12 said:
Said it already this does not actually qualify, like literally call any staffs here preferably
Agnaa and DT, they would tell you themselves
Click to expand...
Well then let us wait for to Dereck to wake up. He can tag them. Let stop with circling then. It seems we both have different POV
 
Tatsumi504 said:
Anos and graham (Chaos and nothingness) are the opposite and lack of all order which would include the order of absurdity that is both 0 and 1, neither 0 nor 1
Click to expand...
Why would it include the order of absurdity which also goes against all order
there is no reason that it would include it as it is by itself a contradiction of order
 
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