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Top 10 Strongest Swordsmen
- Thread starter YungManzi
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- lists weapon mastery
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Yasuo should be above Katangatari characters nothing they have done is that skillful personally.
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Yasuo should be above the ch mainly due to the fact that he has wide scale wind and weather manipulating powers exclusively through his skill with a sword
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- Thread starter
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The problem with this statement is that CH himself is supernaturally skilled (Not to the point of performing physically impossible feats, but feats to a point where it would be impossible for any 1 human to perform)Rocker1189 said:
And any lack of skill he has, he more than makes up for it with his intelligence.
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The ch is neither skilled enough nor smart enough to be able to create tornados with a swing of their sword
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Alright, i will just explain Sions skill feat once and let others decide, dont want this to go down like the a certain thread. I will just say that i believe Sion to be more skilled than most of the list, my biased shitty opinion.
Sion managed to beat a Knight 4 weeks after parental sword training (Meaning that she got her ass beaten in casual duels like a father would curb his son in soccer, calling that "training"). Sion got (She was 10 to that time by the way) a single, shitty advice in how to beat her trainer by the trainers brothers, who hated her (I mean it when i say it was shitty). The advice was to just erase the rythm behind her sword attacks, rendering them literally invisible and unnoticeable, something that isnt archieveable with mere speed. She took that advice, went to her trainer and curbed her ass in a single motion, suprising everyone.
But alright, what are Knights in the first place. Knights are a special military force, tasked with murdering high level AG's, AG's being the enemy force. To be even considered for the Knight Program, you have to be the best of the best from your homeworld, across the universe. They are then drilled in sword fight, military tactics and body cultivation, until they graduate by surviving an actual battlefield. There was a shown graduation mission, where literally 3 trainees from multiple ships came back alive. So already only the most skilled of them all actually become Knights, the rest gets culled without any mercy.
So right, our Trainees are now Knights. Being a Knight means that you are send to planetary scaled battlefields, where a single mistake spells your death faster than you can think. The dying rate as a Knight is still god damn high. If you survived enough Wars and proofed yourself by being oustanding, youre granted the title of Master Knight. Bear in mind at this point that while yes, most Knights run around with some sort of super power (Most them being super vanilla), they are by no means substitute for actual skill. It was stated literal geniuses would still die left and right if they dont hone their sword skills. Meaning that every Knight needs to be a extremly skilled sword fighter, or else he stands absolutly no chance on a battlefield.
So i hope you all, who are still reading, understand why Master Knights are so impressive in terms of skill. Because even Master Knights are absolutly nothing compared to the Cold Heroes. In Knight Run, Master Knights are already considered legends. Cold Heroes surpasses that so insanely, that they are frozen until humanity needs them. If Master Knights are heroes then Cold Heroes are gods, thawed only in case of Humanitys imminent demise. Strentgh, paranormal powers and skill, a Master Knight is nothing compared to that.
And even among those monsters, Sion is considered the greatest. Like i said already, Knight Run spans over 500 years of human development, beyond earth. In that span, no one reached, what Sion archived. Someone who basically archived the chlichee state of nothingness that all sword fighter aspire, was hardly near Sions prime.
After understanding the setting, lets nutshell her feats:
-Could copy a entire martial art after witnissing it once. Said martial art lacked the theory behind it, meaning that it became useless. Sion saw it once, determined every purpose for every movement and made it thus useable for her family again
-Beat her Pupil Clint in a pure sword fight. Said pupil trained since his youth in his sword art. He was to well over 70 years old in that duel, constantly training to surpasse Sion. His skill with the sword was so great that he was considered the next Sword Saint after Sion. Sion casually beat him, with her body in such a bad condition that a blocked attack nearly ripped apart her body
-Walzed through a gigantic army of AG's that piled on her with utter ease with nothing other than her sword. And when i talk about gigantic, i mean it. An entire warship full of AG's.
-Fought against Hyperio, a AG on the same level as Fear, who could decimate entire Knight Armies unarmed. Hyperion was such a cheeky opponent, because it shredded Sion's physical stats down to 20% just by standing near her. Every touch from Mysteltein would have killed Sion, it additionally had Danmaku with the same properties as Mysteltein that Hyperion loved to abuse and spam. Sion fought against Hyperion with cutted stats ON top of her already destroyed body (It was so badly destroyed and hurt that she legit thought about just giving up and closing her eyes, due to the pain) while deflecting one shotting everythings. With a single sword. Oh, and Hyperion can teleport too, she striked it out in the middle of teleporation by predicting the attack down to its timing.
This got unneededly long, what happens to Sions standing here dosnt matter though. Put her where you want honestly...
Sion managed to beat a Knight 4 weeks after parental sword training (Meaning that she got her ass beaten in casual duels like a father would curb his son in soccer, calling that "training"). Sion got (She was 10 to that time by the way) a single, shitty advice in how to beat her trainer by the trainers brothers, who hated her (I mean it when i say it was shitty). The advice was to just erase the rythm behind her sword attacks, rendering them literally invisible and unnoticeable, something that isnt archieveable with mere speed. She took that advice, went to her trainer and curbed her ass in a single motion, suprising everyone.
But alright, what are Knights in the first place. Knights are a special military force, tasked with murdering high level AG's, AG's being the enemy force. To be even considered for the Knight Program, you have to be the best of the best from your homeworld, across the universe. They are then drilled in sword fight, military tactics and body cultivation, until they graduate by surviving an actual battlefield. There was a shown graduation mission, where literally 3 trainees from multiple ships came back alive. So already only the most skilled of them all actually become Knights, the rest gets culled without any mercy.
So right, our Trainees are now Knights. Being a Knight means that you are send to planetary scaled battlefields, where a single mistake spells your death faster than you can think. The dying rate as a Knight is still god damn high. If you survived enough Wars and proofed yourself by being oustanding, youre granted the title of Master Knight. Bear in mind at this point that while yes, most Knights run around with some sort of super power (Most them being super vanilla), they are by no means substitute for actual skill. It was stated literal geniuses would still die left and right if they dont hone their sword skills. Meaning that every Knight needs to be a extremly skilled sword fighter, or else he stands absolutly no chance on a battlefield.
So i hope you all, who are still reading, understand why Master Knights are so impressive in terms of skill. Because even Master Knights are absolutly nothing compared to the Cold Heroes. In Knight Run, Master Knights are already considered legends. Cold Heroes surpasses that so insanely, that they are frozen until humanity needs them. If Master Knights are heroes then Cold Heroes are gods, thawed only in case of Humanitys imminent demise. Strentgh, paranormal powers and skill, a Master Knight is nothing compared to that.
And even among those monsters, Sion is considered the greatest. Like i said already, Knight Run spans over 500 years of human development, beyond earth. In that span, no one reached, what Sion archived. Someone who basically archived the chlichee state of nothingness that all sword fighter aspire, was hardly near Sions prime.
After understanding the setting, lets nutshell her feats:
-Could copy a entire martial art after witnissing it once. Said martial art lacked the theory behind it, meaning that it became useless. Sion saw it once, determined every purpose for every movement and made it thus useable for her family again
-Beat her Pupil Clint in a pure sword fight. Said pupil trained since his youth in his sword art. He was to well over 70 years old in that duel, constantly training to surpasse Sion. His skill with the sword was so great that he was considered the next Sword Saint after Sion. Sion casually beat him, with her body in such a bad condition that a blocked attack nearly ripped apart her body
-Walzed through a gigantic army of AG's that piled on her with utter ease with nothing other than her sword. And when i talk about gigantic, i mean it. An entire warship full of AG's.
-Fought against Hyperio, a AG on the same level as Fear, who could decimate entire Knight Armies unarmed. Hyperion was such a cheeky opponent, because it shredded Sion's physical stats down to 20% just by standing near her. Every touch from Mysteltein would have killed Sion, it additionally had Danmaku with the same properties as Mysteltein that Hyperion loved to abuse and spam. Sion fought against Hyperion with cutted stats ON top of her already destroyed body (It was so badly destroyed and hurt that she legit thought about just giving up and closing her eyes, due to the pain) while deflecting one shotting everythings. With a single sword. Oh, and Hyperion can teleport too, she striked it out in the middle of teleporation by predicting the attack down to its timing.
This got unneededly long, what happens to Sions standing here dosnt matter though. Put her where you want honestly...
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Sidious and yasuo are without a doubt more skilled than the chYungManzi said:
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Musashi is so skilled that he was treated as invicible on his era. And after "travelling" to the future, he was still considered invincible lol. Only Yujiro was on par with him
If Yasuo's weather manip is allowed, Musashi's abstract cut should be allowed too. Different verses, different types of skill
If Yasuo's weather manip is allowed, Musashi's abstract cut should be allowed too. Different verses, different types of skill
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Samurai Jack calledEmperorDoom25 said:
wait no
it's his lawyer
ovo
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Here's my problem with a lot of the "skill" feats being touted, here.
Hax via "skill" is still hax, and not actual skill with a weapon. Example: Just because in a series, it's stated that X person is so "skilled" with his sword that he can cut through dimensions, doesn't actually make it a feat of skill, it means he has space-time/dimensional manipulation. To use a specific example, just because in-verse, it's stated that Yasuo can manipulate the weather through "sword skill"--that shouldn't be applicable to his actual skill with a blade, at least in terms of skill rankings like this, because swordfighting should be exclusively about defending and attacking from a melee perspective. Elsewise, why not just say anyone who can turn intangible/non-corporeal via "sword skill" is number 1, because then none of the others can hit him? Or why not someone who can make a universe via "sword skill"? Doesn't make any sense to me to include things like that as a justification for why X character should be considered more skilled than Y character, who has a much more honest feat of skill (such as defeating multi-millenium-old sword masters, training with weapons since before the beginning of time, etc.)? That kind of stuff just seems to me to be lazy/uninformed writing on the authors' part; "I have little concept of actual swordfighting and am running out of ideas on how to emphasize the skill of my swordsman protagonist! Better have him solve world hunger and discover the universal equation via sword skill."
Another thing to consider when thinking about this, is the AP and speed advantages of a character, and how that influences a fight in terms of skill. Just because a character happened to have some skill, and *also* speedblitzed and AP-stomped an entire army of highly-skilled fighters, doesn't make that a feat of actual talent, it just means that character moves quicker, and hits harder.
Hax via "skill" is still hax, and not actual skill with a weapon. Example: Just because in a series, it's stated that X person is so "skilled" with his sword that he can cut through dimensions, doesn't actually make it a feat of skill, it means he has space-time/dimensional manipulation. To use a specific example, just because in-verse, it's stated that Yasuo can manipulate the weather through "sword skill"--that shouldn't be applicable to his actual skill with a blade, at least in terms of skill rankings like this, because swordfighting should be exclusively about defending and attacking from a melee perspective. Elsewise, why not just say anyone who can turn intangible/non-corporeal via "sword skill" is number 1, because then none of the others can hit him? Or why not someone who can make a universe via "sword skill"? Doesn't make any sense to me to include things like that as a justification for why X character should be considered more skilled than Y character, who has a much more honest feat of skill (such as defeating multi-millenium-old sword masters, training with weapons since before the beginning of time, etc.)? That kind of stuff just seems to me to be lazy/uninformed writing on the authors' part; "I have little concept of actual swordfighting and am running out of ideas on how to emphasize the skill of my swordsman protagonist! Better have him solve world hunger and discover the universal equation via sword skill."
Another thing to consider when thinking about this, is the AP and speed advantages of a character, and how that influences a fight in terms of skill. Just because a character happened to have some skill, and *also* speedblitzed and AP-stomped an entire army of highly-skilled fighters, doesn't make that a feat of actual talent, it just means that character moves quicker, and hits harder.
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I agree with Orc.
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You have the hax through skill. No one is arguing that it isn't a power just because it's done via skill.
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The problem with using Yasuo as an analogy is that he explicitly has no wind manipulating powers on his own, its explicitly something he is able to do as a result of being so exceedingly skilled with his sword that he has learned how to manipulate the wind itself through sheer skill, not through a supernatural power
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That's kind of my issue, though. In its purest form, swordfighting isn't about who can warp reality with every sword swing--it's about technique, form, footwork, and precision. Someone who's just throwing their opponent around with "skill-based" wind manipulation isn't fighting them as a swordsman, they're fighting them as basically a mage with a sword for a wand. I'm saying that those "skill-based" hax shouldn't count as actual feats of skill, because they're not, objectively speaking.
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..Except it is a supernatural power? What is it about "Yasuo can create gusts of wind/storms with a sword swing" that actually makes them sound talented, as opposed to someone possessing supernatural power? Like, just because in-universe it's said "via skill" doesn't make it any less of a supernatural power. Can Yasuo explain what natural, anatomically-possible and scientifically-verifiable movements of his wrist and arm he makes in the swinging of his sword that allow him to suddenly generate wind? And if so, has he, ever?WeeklyBattles said:
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Except that this isn't just real life. Ofc you can't cut fate in real life, but fiction is, well, fiction. The author can do whatever they want.A Stoned Orc said:
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@Orc Yasuo is unable to use wind techniques without his sword
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It isn't just about real life, here, it's about equivalency. How do you compare "he's so skilled that he can cut through fate!" against "he defeated X, who has trained and honed his skills with the blade for millennia", when the latter example is incapable of cutting through fate via skill?
Like, seriously, just because they have a special ability that is canonically stated to be "via skill" doesn't actually make them a more skilled swordsman, whether that ability can only be used with their sword or not. It isn't something you can boil down and quantify for accurate comparisons. Just saying, if we keep this up, most of this list will just be about who can use what hax "via skill" as opposed to the actual base principles of swordfighting.
Like, seriously, just because they have a special ability that is canonically stated to be "via skill" doesn't actually make them a more skilled swordsman, whether that ability can only be used with their sword or not. It isn't something you can boil down and quantify for accurate comparisons. Just saying, if we keep this up, most of this list will just be about who can use what hax "via skill" as opposed to the actual base principles of swordfighting.
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I disagree. If someone can warp you around via sword skills it's still skill. He's so skilled he can do those, it's not like he's using raw hax that don't require skill. Everything here is based on things that supposedly everyone can do if they were to pick up a sword and train hard enough
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THAT. That right there. No one in Dungeons and Dragons can pick up a sword, and train hard enough to cut through fate.Firephoenixearl said:
No one in Soul Calibur can pick up a sword, and train hard enough to cut through dimensions.
No one in Ruroni Kenshin can pick up a sword, and train hard enough to manipulate the weather. I could literally keep listing examples of verses that CAN'T do these same hax feats, but yet have performed feats of pure skill emphasizing the raw, base principles of swordfighting.
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TFW Kenshin actually DOES have wind manip via his sword...
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Okay, Kenshin was a bad example, then, but you get the point. These abilities are exclusive, or otherwise varied, between canons. We shouldn't be looking at who can do what outrageous hax with the lame excuse of "sword skill", we should be looking at those who are legitimately talented with the mechanics of an actual swordfight, because those skill-based hax are incomparable to swordmasters whose canons prevent them from practically warping reality around them via skill.
E.g. someone who's just ragdolling someone via skill-based wind manip or other hax shouldn't be considered more skilled than someone who regularly overwhelms people with numerous human lifespans' worth of experience and skill, or has such experience themselves, just because said fighters can't reproduce the same hax with their skill-level.
E.g. someone who's just ragdolling someone via skill-based wind manip or other hax shouldn't be considered more skilled than someone who regularly overwhelms people with numerous human lifespans' worth of experience and skill, or has such experience themselves, just because said fighters can't reproduce the same hax with their skill-level.
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That makes sense, it makes skill much easier to quantify cross-verse. Less variables.
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So question.. How does one obtain a rank here?
And why haven't Nasuverse characters been mentioned yet lol? The entire pantheon of the Saber Class should be in the top 5 right??
And why haven't Nasuverse characters been mentioned yet lol? The entire pantheon of the Saber Class should be in the top 5 right??
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Assasin outskills literally every Saber
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Eh, not sure that's true. Musashi is comparable to him, and you can make a decent argument that either is slightly more skilled than the other.
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Saying every Saber should be at least top 5 is wank.
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Well i can't say i know the skill level of every character on the list, but most of them should be pretty skilled in sword combat. I mean number 8 says "Characters from [insert verse name] or is that the skill level of all the saber's class in terms of sword skill varies too much???
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Okita and Yagyu are the only Sabers potentially nearing Assassin's skill
Musashi after achieving nothingness is equal in skill to Assassin
Also I don't understand what the problem with Mibu is, if the problem is that he "transcends skill" via being 1-A then Khorne also transcends skill and should be booted out too
He isn't gaining hax because of his desire only, his concept and time cutting along with alot of his other stuff are skill related
Musashi after achieving nothingness is equal in skill to Assassin
Also I don't understand what the problem with Mibu is, if the problem is that he "transcends skill" via being 1-A then Khorne also transcends skill and should be booted out too
He isn't gaining hax because of his desire only, his concept and time cutting along with alot of his other stuff are skill related
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Obviously Khorne should still be at the top rank, he's a literal embodied concept of violence that's existed for eons, with an emphasis on close-combat and swords.
My thing is, if the major thing someone wants to bring up as indicative of one's skill at swords is "they can cut through time/concepts", "wind manipulation", "insert skillhax here", then they should be re-evaluated. Give something else, who they've defeated, what sort of experience they have, the sort of experience the people they've defeated have had. Just saying they can warp reality or blow away planets or whatever with raw talent doesn't tell anyone anything about how skilled they actually are.
First Witch's examples for Sion are very compelling, for instance.
My thing is, if the major thing someone wants to bring up as indicative of one's skill at swords is "they can cut through time/concepts", "wind manipulation", "insert skillhax here", then they should be re-evaluated. Give something else, who they've defeated, what sort of experience they have, the sort of experience the people they've defeated have had. Just saying they can warp reality or blow away planets or whatever with raw talent doesn't tell anyone anything about how skilled they actually are.
First Witch's examples for Sion are very compelling, for instance.
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I couldn't agree more with everything you have been saying, Orc.
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@Orc
That is absolutely wrong. Those aren't things that can be evaluated properly:
That is absolutely wrong. Those aren't things that can be evaluated properly:
- Experience is not quantifiable. You can train for 1 billion years and not be as good as a 15 y/o kid.
- Who they have defeated brings in too many things beside skill like luck, probability, plot etc.
John985
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Orc, for you saying that cutting dimension isnt skill feat, here's a brief exchange of Kojiro and Saber.
"How can this be weight, power and speed. I have the advantage in every field. Why can't I break his defense?"
"From the brief exchange of blows? Does this servant surpass me so greatly in sword technique?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeQ9xKSjpII
"How can this be weight, power and speed. I have the advantage in every field. Why can't I break his defense?"
"From the brief exchange of blows? Does this servant surpass me so greatly in sword technique?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeQ9xKSjpII
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Unless said 15 y/o kid beat someone with that much experience beforehand, no, no on every account.
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