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Top 10 Strongest Non-Smurfs for every tier continued (again)

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DaReaperMan said:
Are these nukes hax?

Cause, ya know, I AM advocating for Ainz to get on the list and he has Low 7-C dura
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Yes, and Ainz can prolly get off killing Isaac once, Isaac then resses and uses the void and haxes ainz out via the void or any card, add on the fact that isaac has passive time slow, and it is just kinda just a wrap
 
deonment said:
Yes, and Ainz can prolly get off killing Isaac once, Isaac then resses and uses the void and haxes ainz out via the void or any card, add on the fact that isaac has passive time slow, and it is just kinda just a wrap
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Ainz starts 4 kilometers away.

He can literally outrange Issac until he decides to just stand near him and let Despair Aura 5 perma incap him lol
 
deonment said:
Yes, I am not arguing he beats Sora in the present, I am saying Sora has no way to live past his past self getting ee'd given his lack of aca type 1 or something resembling it, sure he can resist EE on the informational and conceptual level, but that doesn't cover historical/timeline EE.
1)Flight, movement, and a lot of other stuff in general, require time and space to function, something the battlefield would no longer have after this
2)If this is for the 2-B ends, sure
If this is for the 2-A ones, however, to my knowledge of KH it doesn't have above baseline 2-A range so those places would still get caught up in the cosmology nuke so it doesn't matter
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KH does have above baseline 2-A, the Realm of Darkness is another 2-A structure outside the "main" 2-A one, and Sora can reach it in his 2-A key.
Sora can move in the Realm of Darkness, which is stated to be timeless and so on.
Sora's life is bound to multiple timelines as he has contantly traveled between them, even a part of his concept got merged to Ventus as he was born at all, so that turns matters even weirder, so IDK if the ability can deal with so many factors, especially as out of Ventus it'd still have the relevant resistances even as he was just born.
 
deonment said:
I keep forgetting Isaac has **** all range💀
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Oh, actually, is the mid-godly regen mind or soul? Cause there's a difference and Ainz can instantly burn away the ladder with Hell Flame(or really any other Hellfire attack he may have)
 
Bobsican said:
KH does have above baseline 2-A, the Realm of Darkness is another 2-A structure outside the "main" 2-A one, and Sora can reach it in his 2-A key.
Sora can move in the Realm of Darkness, which is stated to be timeless and so on.
Sora's life is bound to multiple timelines as he has contantly traveled between them, even a part of his concept got merged to Ventus as he was born at all, so that turns matters even weirder, so IDK if the ability can deal with so many factors, especially as out of Ventus it'd still have the relevant resistances even as he was just born.
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That doesn't show above baseline 2-A range, otherwise, pokemon would have it as well
The ability is him erasing all of existence including the past present, and future, which would result in Sora getting paradoxed as his younger self would just cease to be, or instead, due to the fact that everything else would be erased, Sora would never become who he now is in the fight, erasing him from history in more ways than one
DaReaperMan said:
Oh, actually, is the mid-godly regen mind or soul? Cause there's a difference and Ainz can instantly burn away the ladder with Hell Flame(or really any other Hellfire attack he may have)
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It is both. He can res from full mind body soul erasure.
Also mind=soul in overlord so there isn't really a difference between the two for vsbw purposes
 
deonment said:
That doesn't show above baseline 2-A range, otherwise, pokemon would have it as well
The ability is him erasing all of existence including the past present, and future, which would result in Sora getting paradoxed as his younger self would just cease to be, or instead, due to the fact that everything else would be erased, Sora would never become who he now is in the fight, erasing him from history in more ways than one
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Pokémon already has that as far I was told in the Giratina match by a mod, actually.

To erase a universe in KH it's required to find and disrupt its heart (aka, its concept, in simple terms), as the existence of everything in there is bound to that, and given that he lacks type 2 info manip (which also defines a heart), I don't think that'd work to begin with...
 
Bobsican said:
Pokémon already has that as far I was told in the Giratina match by a mod, actually.

To erase a universe in KH it's required to find and disrupt its heart (aka, its concept, in simple terms), as the existence of everything in there is bound to that, and given that he lacks type 2 info manip (which also defines a heart), I don't think that'd work to begin with...
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what, no it doesn't, where?

I mean even if he doesn't erase the world itself, the contents are still ******, traverse town but there is no town and those who don't have darkness resistance throughout the timeline are gone, which would still change the timeline significantly enough that Sora would just cease to be
 
YungManzi said:
Well I would actually say she stomps Jerga if it wasn't for abstract stuff. In which case Alte has passive lightning barrier still so even if she can't affect him directly he also couldn't bypass her lightning aura, so inconclusive as the profiles stand.
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He has HGR not just Abstract Existence. Also why can't he bypass lighting Barrier ? His complete existence itself is Abstract. Isn't that enough to phase through.?
 
deonment said:
what, no it doesn't, where?

I mean even if he doesn't erase the world itself, the contents are still ******, traverse town but there is no town and those who don't have darkness resistance throughout the timeline are gone, which would still change the timeline significantly enough that Sora would just cease to be
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See from here onwards

Thing is that the contents are bound to the world's heart to begin with, it's the combination of all hearts that make the world up, which includes its inhabitants and anything else. In other words anything that exists in the verse is bound to a (personal) type 1 concept and type 2 info manip (wack, I know), so...
 
XDragnoir said:
...

What?
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Time is accepted as being 4-D on this wiki, but time manipulation is not considered smurf hax, even fully resetting timelines on a universal scale, but summoning from other universes, something that is explicitly not higher-Dimensional in verse, is considered smurf. It's very self contradictory and makes little to no sense.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Time is accepted as being 4-D on this wiki,
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No, Space+time is 4D, again, time by itself is a single dimension.
WeeklyBattles said:
but time manipulation is not considered smurf hax, even fully resetting timelines on a universal scale, but summoning from other universes, something that is explicitly not higher-Dimensional in verse, is considered smurf. It's very self contradictory and makes little to no sense.
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I wasn't talking about any of that.
 
Time is accepted as being 4-D on this wiki, but time manipulation is not considered smurf hax
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Do you have any idea how hard you shot your argument in the foot with this logic? If time is accepted as being 4-D, (which it isn’t, space-time is 4-D) then literally any form of time manipulation is smurf by default according to your logic.
 
Pokemon has because they have actually shown that the Distortion World is impossible to reach for beings with 2-A range (note said beings with 2-A range can travel to millions of alternate 2-A multiverses as well but those are not treated as beyond baseline here because they have no feats of it)
 
chen qi should be higher in High 6A and 4A. He can interact with NEP so he can beat greeza. He has concept,law AE type and more
 
Theglassman12 said:
Do you have any idea how hard you shot your argument in the foot with this logic? If time is accepted as being 4-D, (which it isn’t, space-time is 4-D) then literally any form of time manipulation is smurf by default according to your logic.
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Yes, that is what I have been arguing, time manip should be smurf by default
 
Interdimensional should not be smurf as you aren't affecting the whole structure (what we classify as tier 2 range), you are only affecting a singular point within these structures, which is not tier 2 range
 
deonment said:
Interdimensional should not be smurf as you aren't affecting the whole structure (what we classify as tier 2 range), you are only affecting a singular point within these structures, which is not tier 2 range
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Okay so the Hunter should be back in the 8-A slot using that logic
 
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EldemadeDityjon said:
He has HGR not just Abstract Existence. Also why can't he bypass lighting Barrier ? His complete existence itself is Abstract. Isn't that enough to phase through.?
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1) Regeneration is moot, since killing or erasing wouldn't be a wincon for Alte, and isn't usually a wincon for anyone in Tsuki ga (They mostly have incap hax).

2) That's not how Abstraction works. It just means he himself can't be affected. that doesn't mean anything he does can't be defended against.

The gist of the revisions for Tsukimichi is a bunch of resistances with a bunch of layers, minor AP upgrades, weird multi-layered obscure incap hax that barely anyone on the wiki has resistance to; and potentially nonexistence interaction... I'm gonna get to working on this again tomorrow.
 
DaReaperMan said:
BTW why is Test #3 8-A? It was agreed that Crowfather(and many others) kick his shit in Here
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To support this point here and here are some post in which is explained why several 8-A that are more fitting for the list stomp or easily defeat Johnny (even if several assumptions are used to give him the benefit of the doubt about how brokenly he would began a match), something that Random himself acknowledge. So yeah, Johny should be removed and instead added the rest of characters mentioned in the post for example, the op could add them in the order that look more broken to him and then later if someone think certain character should be above another a match can be done (this is the only way to begin to fill 8-A, because in the other thread no matter how much can be debated it always die and end without any actual progress).
RandomGuy2345 said:
@Expectro2000xxx hear me out...

What if I proposed Johnny Test for the 9-A, 7-C, and 7-A categories?
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Since the list was expanded to 10 spots and most places are currently empty I guess he could be added at least as placeholder in those tiers until other candidates appear. I at least don't have any particular candidate in mind to propose for that tiers that it wasn't already mentioned by others.
YungManzi said:
Are you saying he’s above Alte but not Ehit? (tsuki ga michibiku vs Afrifureta is a very complicated topic and Arifureta is listed above Tsuki ga right now pretty much just because the profiles are gonna get updated eventually and then they’re going to be put up against arifureta again.)
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When Tsuki is updated if you want you could make matches to see if they can get Arifureta spot, for the moment at least I certainly don't see Tsuki characters defeating Arifureta side with their layered conceptual&law powers and other things (like for example the abstract existence of Ehit that impide Alte from affecting him while he can do any of his haxs).
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
To support this point here and here are some post in which is explained why several 8-A that are more fitting for the list stomp or easily defeat Johnny (even if several assumptions are used to give him the benefit of the doubt about how brokenly he would began a match), something that Random himself acknowledge. So yeah, Johny should be removed and instead added the rest of characters mentioned in the post for example, the op could add them in the order that look more broken to him and then later if someone think certain character should be above another a match can be done (this is the only way to begin to fill 8-A, because in the other thread no matter how much can be debated it always die and end without any actual progress).
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Well, Johnny gained Supernatural Luck and Accelerated Development...
 
Doesn't literally most of the 8-A candidates that were listed in that other thread kicks Johnny's ass?
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Well, Johnny gained Supernatural Luck and Accelerated Development...
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Saw the crts, definitely don't change anything against the arguments I explained for the rest of characters in the other thread, unless you think that his luck would null conceptual powers, passives that automatically incap him, intangibility, etc.
 
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