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The Search for the Strongest 8-A Non-Smurfs

deonment said:
It isn't, just like how interdimensional range isn't smurf, because you aren't affecting the entire structure, just 3 things within them
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Interdimensional range is just opening a portal or teleporting from A to B, in this case they exist simultaneously in A, B and C.
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
Why Sekiro can't be on the list? He looks a better version of The Hunter (Both are immortal and skilled, but one has regen negation)
Click to expand...
Because he isnt, Hunter is the better of the two, Sekiro just has a hard counter to the thing that lets the Hunter beat everyone else but Sekiro himself cant beat anyone on the list
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
Interdimensional range is just opening a portal or teleporting from A to B, in this case they exist simultaneously in A, B and C.
Click to expand...
Yes, and that isn't smurfy in the same manner interdimensional is, you are not affecting the whole structure in either of these cases, you are only affecting a thing within them, whether that be a point or an individual being.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Please give reasons as to why all of these people beat Johnny instead of listing them off one by one, because these lads still have to go through much more stuff other than his Time Stop, and Time Stop is already going to be a lot to deal with.
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Crowfather and Kirito were already mentioned why easily defeat Johnny (In the case of Crow do to instantly freezing Johnny before the time stop or in the exact moment the time stop end in the unlikely case that he can use it first without becoming ice. In the case of Kirito because his self believe hax and all his thought based haxs that either kill or incap without Johnny being able to counter), so will go with the others I mentioned:
  • Henry: Have infinite retries that automatically activate when he get killed or incapacitated, so Johnny would need to literally survive an infinite amount of times against Henry haxs, which he as a matter of fact can't. If you want an specific list of Henry haxs then he have luck that can make his opponent get run over by a car without previous warning, a dance that make even his enemies in serious situations ignore any logic and just begin to dance, a perception manip that let him see things slowly, morality manip that turn the enemy in his ally, magic of various elements and status effect that make the enemy cry uncontrollably, metal bending or magnetism that could potentially use to destroy or rob the time watch, a yelling ability that can destroy things and send objects flying (he can also do similar things with equipment), attack reflection, use moves from fighting games that defeat his opponents without letting them do anything, can become intangible and invisible, become a shadow to not be noticed nor interacted by Johnny, travel years in the past to **** his objetive, possess people, mind control his objetive, prevent the pressing of any botton by turning reality 2D, can cause literal lag to not be affected by his enemy and likely some more things that could give a win. Johnny would need to survive this for infinity without losing even once.
  • Han: His gamer powers are based on affect reality and causality he prevent his body from receive any damage as long he have hp and recover any status effect just by sleeping for example (it also make skills effects to work regardless of logic and enemy resistance), have homing attacks, life manip that drain his target hp from afar, creation of pocket realities (he can use it to make himself stronger, gain new powers, recover, etc), invisibility, elemental manip, binding that restrict the opponent from moving, body and mind stun, summoning of intangible elemental spirits, magic that make people ignore the ones under its effect, can blitz with sol arrows, his own time stop and even resistance to time stop, and probably more that I don't know since I don't read the manhwa.
  • Shizuku: Johnny will get instantly charmed by Shizuku beauty and natural charm able to create religions (as a matter of fact at the moment of this key a great portion of the poblation of two countries already are devouts of her, technically more since at the end of the key she was moving around to prepare humanity to go to war and her followers increased), and literally any attack or ability from her are things that Johnny can't resist or defend do to funny law&concept powers through ancient magic, there is also how do to her instincts she can sense danger before it happen so she can react to prevent it before it happen.
  • Ikki: Johnny don't have any reason to use his time stop (at the very least in the broken way you want) against a completely normal looking teenage, but even under the assumption that for some reason he decided to actually use it that way Ikki instincts (like Shizuku) can feel things before they happen and if he do he activate his 200x speed amp to blitz. He can also fear hax but the main thing is actually the blitz.
  • Danny: Johnny can't perceive nor interact with Danny do to his ghost physiology so he can't do anything to him, meanwhile Danny can easily possess him or just defeat him with normal attacks.
  • Owari no Seraph characters: Bruh, all their powers are type 1 concepts so Johnny can't do anything to even try resist them, Typhon even literally control the concept of time to do fuckery like erase time in a way that make impossible to damage him or prevent the other side from reacting against him. There is also how they can see things in slow motion to think and act better which would let use their powers more effectively and likely more things that DT could argue they can do to defeat Johnny.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
Crowfather and Kirito were already mentioned why easily defeat Johnny (In the case of Crow do to instantly freezing Johnny before the time stop or in the exact moment the time stop end in the unlikely case that he can use it first without becoming ice. In the case of Kirito because his self believe hax and all his thought based haxs that either kill or incap without Johnny being able to counter), so will go with the others I mentioned:
  • Henry: Have infinite retries that automatically activate when he get killed or incapacitated, so Johnny would need to literally survive an infinite amount of times against Henry haxs, which he as a matter of fact can't. If you want an specific list of Henry haxs then he have luck that can make his opponent get run over by a car without previous warning, a dance that make even his enemies in serious situations ignore any logic and just begin to dance, a perception manip that let him see things slowly, morality manip that turn the enemy in his ally, magic of various elements and status effect that make the enemy cry uncontrollably, metal bending or magnetism that could potentially use to destroy or rob the time watch, a yelling ability that can destroy things and send objects flying (he can also do similar things with equipment), attack reflection, use moves from fighting games that defeat his opponents without letting them do anything, can become intangible and invisible, become a shadow to not be noticed nor interacted by Johnny, travel years in the past to **** his objetive, possess people, mind control his objetive, prevent the pressing of any botton by turning reality 2D, can cause literal lag to not be affected by his enemy and likely some more things that could give a win. Johnny would need to survive this for infinity without losing even once.
  • Han: His gamer powers are based on affect reality and causality he prevent his body from receive any damage as long he have hp and recover any status effect just by sleeping for example (it also make skills effects to work regardless of logic and enemy resistance), have homing attacks, life manip that drain his target hp from afar, creation of pocket realities (he can use it to make himself stronger, gain new powers, recover, etc), invisibility, elemental manip, binding that restrict the opponent from moving, body and mind stun, summoning of intangible elemental spirits, magic that make people ignore the ones under its effect, can blitz with sol arrows, his own time stop and even resistance to time stop, and probably more that I don't know since I don't read the manhwa.
  • Shizuku: Johnny will get instantly charmed by Shizuku beauty and natural charm able to create religions (as a matter of fact at the moment of this key a great portion of the poblation of two countries already are devouts of her, technically more since at the end of the key she was moving around to prepare humanity to go to war and her followers increased), and literally any attack or ability from her are things that Johnny can't resist or defend do to funny law&concept powers through ancient magic, there is also how do to her instincts she can sense danger before it happen so she can react to prevent it before it happen.
  • Ikki: Johnny don't have any reason to use his time stop (at the very least in the broken way you want) against a completely normal looking teenage, but even under the assumption that for some reason he decided to actually use it that way Ikki instincts (like Shizuku) can feel things before they happen and if he do he activate his 200x speed amp to blitz. He can also fear hax but the main thing is actually the blitz.
  • Danny: Johnny can't perceive nor interact with Danny do to his ghost physiology so he can't do anything to him, meanwhile Danny can easily possess him or just defeat him with normal attacks.
  • Owari no Seraph characters: Bruh, all their powers are type 1 concepts so Johnny can't do anything to even try resist them, Typhon even literally control the concept of time to do fuckery like erase time in a way that make impossible to damage him or prevent the other side from reacting against him. There is also how they can see things in slow motion to think and act better which would let use their powers more effectively and likely more things that DT could argue they can do to defeat Johnny.
Click to expand...
What about the rest of the candidates pitted against JT?
 
Before I respond to this Dio levels of hating. Atp I gotta respect Expectro's dedication, Johnny has already defeated Flowey, and Flowey is at #3, and quite literally all of the candidates have to get through each other before they even get the chance to challenge Johnny, so Johnny, whether y'all like it or not, deserves to be up there in the Top 5.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Before I respond to this Dio levels of hating. Atp I gotta respect Expectro's dedication, Johnny has already defeated Flowey, and Flowey is at #3, and quite literally all of the candidates have to get through each other before they even get the chance to challenge Johnny, so Johnny, whether y'all like it or not, deserves to be up there in the Top 5.
Click to expand...
Nobody even voted on that thread lol
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Before I respond to this Dio levels of hating. Atp I gotta respect Expectro's dedication, Johnny has already defeated Flowey, and Flowey is at #3, and quite literally all of the candidates have to get through each other before they even get the chance to challenge Johnny, so Johnny, whether y'all like it or not, deserves to be up there in the Top 5.
Click to expand...
Actually no, if one character is able to defeat certain spot but lose against everyone else they don't enter the list, is like the situation with Sekiro who defeat The Hunter but when defeated by the rest.
 
And also, there's literally still plenty of 8-As that completely ***** all over Johnny, and also, Merton could easily just transmute Johnny into a playing card before he could even react.
 
Spinoirr said:
what stops billy from making anyone of them game end themselves via Unjustice?
Click to expand...
Unjustice: Juiz has a negator ability that allows her to control the actions of others, altering their sense of "Justice." The condition for the negation to activate is that Juiz has look at the target with her eyes uncovered.

billy has the same power as her as he copied her power
Morality Manipulation (Unjustice allows for Billy to negate other's vision of justice which forces them to act out any action that would be injustice to their justice[3]. Billy used it on Fuuko and she was going to commit suicide.[10] Billy used it on multiple people here as well[3])
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
Henry: Have infinite retries that automatically activate when he get killed or incapacitated, so Johnny would need to literally survive an infinite amount of times against Henry haxs, which he as a matter of fact can't. If you want an specific list of Henry haxs then he have luck that can make his opponent get run over by a car without previous warning, a dance that make even his enemies in serious situations ignore any logic and just begin to dance, a perception manip that let him see things slowly, morality manip that turn the enemy in his ally, magic of various elements and status effect that make the enemy cry uncontrollably, metal bending or magnetism that could potentially use to destroy or rob the time watch, a yelling ability that can destroy things and send objects flying (he can also do similar things with equipment), attack reflection, use moves from fighting games that defeat his opponents without letting them do anything, can become intangible and invisible, become a shadow to not be noticed nor interacted by Johnny, travel years in the past to **** his objetive, possess people, mind control his objetive, prevent the pressing of any botton by turning reality 2D, can cause literal lag to not be affected by his enemy and likely some more things that could give a win. Johnny would need to survive this for infinity without losing even once.
Click to expand...
Henry's fair since he has infinite retries.

Expectro2000xxx said:
Han: His gamer powers are based on affect reality and causality he prevent his body from receive any damage as long he have hp and recover any status effect just by sleeping for example (it also make skills effects to work regardless of logic and enemy resistance), have homing attacks, life manip that drain his target hp from afar, creation of pocket realities (he can use it to make himself stronger, gain new powers, recover, etc), invisibility, elemental manip, binding that restrict the opponent from moving, body and mind stun, summoning of intangible elemental spirits, magic that make people ignore the ones under its effect, can blitz with sol arrows, his own time stop and even resistance to time stop, and probably more that I don't know since I don't read the manhwa.
Click to expand...
Any hax Han has that helps him heal from physical damage doesn't help at all against someone as hax savvy as Johnny is. Stuff like homing attacks, elemental manip, invisibility, binding/restriction, body and mind stun either gets countered by Johnny's Supernatural Luck (which gives the opponent bad luck in exchange for Johnny's good luck), or Johnny having those hax as well. Everything else is fair ig.

Expectro2000xxx said:
Shizuku: Johnny will get instantly charmed by Shizuku beauty and natural charm able to create religions (as a matter of fact at the moment of this key a great portion of the poblation of two countries already are devouts of her, technically more since at the end of the key she was moving around to prepare humanity to go to war and her followers increased), and literally any attack or ability from her are things that Johnny can't resist or defend do to funny law&concept powers through ancient magic, there is also how do to her instincts she can sense danger before it happen so she can react to prevent it before it happen.
Click to expand...
I saw this one coming a mile away.

I thought Law and Concept powers were in a different key? Specifically her 7-A key. Sensing danger won't matter if you can't react in time to said danger, especially if the danger is someone pressing a button, which is far from your grasp. Also, Johnny's comparable to people like Dukey who have Precognition, so that's automatically a no go.

Expectro2000xxx said:
Ikki: Johnny don't have any reason to use his time stop (at the very least in the broken way you want) against a completely normal looking teenage, but even under the assumption that for some reason he decided to actually use it that way Ikki instincts (like Shizuku) can feel things before they happen and if he do he activate his 200x speed amp to blitz. He can also fear hax but the main thing is actually the blitz.
Click to expand...
Johnny's comparable to people who have Precog, but that 200x speed amp is certainly something, though iirc, isn't that just with only one attack? Unless it's in-character for him to use that attack a lot, then what's stopping Johnny from using his hax before Ikki can finish him off? This is Johnny's easiest opponent by a landslide.

Expectro2000xxx said:
Actually no, if one character is able to defeat certain spot but lose against everyone else they don't enter the list, is like the situation with Sekiro who defeat The Hunter but when defeated by the rest.
Click to expand...
Was the Sekiro and Hunter match made into a thread like Johnny vs Flowey? If so, then I can see your point.

Expectro2000xxx said:
Danny: Johnny can't perceive nor interact with Danny do to his ghost physiology so he can't do anything to him, meanwhile Danny can easily possess him or just defeat him with normal attacks.
Click to expand...
Already talked about this.

Expectro2000xxx said:
Owari no Seraph characters: Bruh, all their powers are type 1 concepts so Johnny can't do anything to even try resist them, Typhon even literally control the concept of time to do fuckery like erase time in a way that make impossible to damage him or prevent the other side from reacting against him. There is also how they can see things in slow motion to think and act better which would let use their powers more effectively and likely more things that DT could argue they can do to defeat Johnny.
Click to expand...
This is fair, too.

Overall, I'm questionable on Shizuku and (especially) Ikki, when his biggest win con is a speed amp that comes with only attack, as well as sensing danger like Shizuku, which gets countered by Johnny being skilled enough to fight on par with someone with Precognition.
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
Although, since Johnny's Bionic Arm should work like Makima's Fingergun, he has a x34 speed amp me think
Click to expand...
That would be in the case that he chose to use it, but even then some characters have greater speed amps or just ignore it, though now that you mentioned the speed part I remembered that spots with speed unequal are also valid so several of the characters would get his spot by that (look at the various characters with MFTL speeds).
Spinoirr said:
Unjustice: Juiz has a negator ability that allows her to control the actions of others, altering their sense of "Justice." The condition for the negation to activate is that Juiz has look at the target with her eyes uncovered.

billy has the same power as her as he copied her power
Morality Manipulation (Unjustice allows for Billy to negate other's vision of justice which forces them to act out any action that would be injustice to their justice[3]. Billy used it on Fuuko and she was going to commit suicide.[10] Billy used it on multiple people here as well[3])
Click to expand...
Would he be able to activate when unable to see people do to the initial 4km distance? Though even if he can use it I know that at least Han and Shizuku resist it (Han do to gamer's mind resistances and Shizuku do to ancient magic level defenses and strong supernatural willpower), from what I know Ikki willpower is also supposed to be quite crazy so he likely could also resist it, depending if the concept things of the Owari characters also defend against non-corporeal powers (like I suppose it do because is Owari no Seraph) then they also get unaffected, and if the D&D guys are really valid to use then they also resist it do to broken D&D resistances and exist in three different planes of existences.
 
Expectro2000xxx said:
Would he be able to activate when unable to see people do to the initial 4km distance? Though even if he can use it I know that at least Han and Shizuku resist it (Han do to gamer's mind resistances and Shizuku do to ancient magic level defenses and strong supernatural willpower), from what I know Ikki willpower is also supposed to be quite crazy so he likely could also resist it, depending if the concept things of the Owari characters also defend against non-corporeal powers (like I suppose it do because is Owari no Seraph) then they also get unaffected, and if the D&D guys are really valid to use then they also resist it do to broken D&D resistances and exist in three different planes of existences.
Click to expand...
well they would need to also have Resistance to limited law manipulation as well due to the power system of the verse being able to negate rules of the world (laws/concepts)

as Limited Subjective Reality & Accelerated Development (Andy states "In the end, it's all a matter of how we perceive the rules. So long as we believe in that concept, our abilities will develop as much as we want" what this means for all Negators is that their own perception of their ability's use and limits can be developed which allowed Andy to develop his Undead ability. Victor also is stated that by consciously changing the interpretation of death allows him a multifaceted use of his regeneration. This is also something Billy says is "sound logic" meaning he too accepts this line of thinking[5][6])

also victor who has Resistance to Unjustice has this for his Resistance Resistance to: Limited Law Negation & Morality Manipulation (All negators either negate their own rule or negate the rule of others[3]. Juiz can negate people's vision of justice forcing them to go against it. Victor is stated by Juiz to lack justice.[17]), but the moment he gained a sense of justice, her power worked on him

the original user of Unjustice has her profile say Law Negation of Self Justice (All negators either negate their own rule or negate the rule of others[2]. Juiz can negate people's vision of justice forcing them to go against it[3])
 
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RandomGuy2345 said:
Henry's fair since he has infinite retries.


Any hax Han has that helps him heal from physical damage doesn't help at all against someone as hax savvy as Johnny is. Stuff like homing attacks, elemental manip, invisibility, binding/restriction, body and mind stun either gets countered by Johnny's Supernatural Luck (which gives the opponent bad luck in exchange for Johnny's good luck), or Johnny having those hax as well. Everything else is fair ig.
Click to expand...
You miss understand, he don't receive any physical damage at all do to how game mechanics affect reality with the hp, and in the case that he lower Han hp enough he can easily recover it (along with his mana and stamina) with with skills, magic or going at one of his pocket dimensions so Johnny don't really have the means to put him down in a combat. Johnny luck isn't crazy level broken that can affect abilitites that affect reality and causality bruh.
RandomGuy2345 said:
I saw this one coming a mile away.

I thought Law and Concept powers were in a different key? Specifically her 7-A key. Sensing danger won't matter if you can't react in time to said danger, especially if the danger is someone pressing a button, which is far from your grasp. Also, Johnny's comparable to people like Dukey who have Precognition, so that's automatically a no go.
Click to expand...
Nope, third key she already have ancient magic (specifically spatial magic, gravity magic, evolution magic and spirit magic, reason to why lately I have be unable to make matches with her third key), is just that her next key is incomparably more broken (like really broken, enough to get an inco with Ikki at his top and get high spots on the list). You actually could because when instincts reach certain point they become spider-senses or even broken precog (the levels of Shizuku and Ikki, which is why I mentioned it) which let one act before things happen. That's a horrible argument, just because Johnny is comparable to Dukey don't mean he have precog or counter it since haven't show it in their fight or really any other time besides that one clip (if he have considerably more instances showing it you could bring them to support your point however). She also have precog/analytica prediction since previous key so there is that but at the end that is just secondary, the main point is that Johnny get charmed by Shizuku.
RandomGuy2345 said:
Overall, I'm questionable on Shizuku and (especially) Ikki, when his biggest win con is a speed amp that comes with only attack, as well as sensing danger like Shizuku, which gets countered by Johnny being skilled enough to fight on par with someone with Precognition.
Click to expand...
You would be surprised how well he use that short speed amp, along with how broken Ikki senses can be, and the skill argument is so laughably when that is said against Ikki and Shizuku.
 
Yeah it's like saying Johnny can fight Crowfather in a pure melee, the dude fought somewhat evenly with Death, ya know, an unknown millenia old civilization killer who scales to folks who've actually soloed armies before.
 
Spinoirr said:
well they would need to also have Resistance to limited law manipulation as well due to the power system of the verse being able to negate rules of the world (laws/concepts)

as Limited Subjective Reality & Accelerated Development (Andy states "In the end, it's all a matter of how we perceive the rules. So long as we believe in that concept, our abilities will develop as much as we want" what this means for all Negators is that their own perception of their ability's use and limits can be developed which allowed Andy to develop his Undead ability. Victor also is stated that by consciously changing the interpretation of death allows him a multifaceted use of his regeneration. This is also something Billy says is "sound logic" meaning he too accepts this line of thinking[5][6])

also victor who has Resistance to Unjustice has this for his Resistance Resistance to: Limited Law Negation & Morality Manipulation (All negators either negate their own rule or negate the rule of others[3]. Juiz can negate people's vision of justice forcing them to go against it. Victor is stated by Juiz to lack justice.[17]), but the moment he gained a sense of justice, her power worked on him

the original user of Unjustice has her profile say Law Negation of Self Justice (All negators either negate their own rule or negate the rule of others[2]. Juiz can negate people's vision of justice forcing them to go against it[3])
Click to expand...
D&D characters resist, have AE1, and have to be affected in 2/3 different planes for stuff to work on them.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Yeah it's like saying Johnny can fight Crowfather in a pure melee, the dude fought somewhat evenly with Death, ya know, an unknown millenia old civilization killer who scales to folks who've actually soloed armies before.
Click to expand...
Sounds like fodder to offscreen penguins
 
Spinoirr said:
well they would need to also have Resistance to limited law manipulation as well due to the power system of the verse being able to negate rules of the world (laws/concepts)
Click to expand...
Could be wrong but in no part of the profile I see listed conceptual manip and the type of it so in principle there isn't needed resistance against concept manip to resist it, but regardless yes the characters I mentioned actually have resistances against things like that (Han resist law manip do to game mechanics, Shizuku resist both layered law and concept manip type 2, likely even type 1 since her willpower was showed to be equal to Tio who resisted type 1 concept manip by pure will, Ikki will from what I know also affected things like fate but not sure how applicable that is to this key which was why I said maybe, D&D is D&D they resist every hax in the wiki and Billy would need feats of affect ae1 and beings on different planes of existence, Owari no Seraph verse concept manip is type 1 and vastly scale above law manip irrc from what I saw DT comment in the past).
 
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