Timeframe of Deus Sema

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

Everything after the Meteor entered the Atmosphere is Cinematic time just like with Dio's Time Stop, Doflamingo's Birdcage, and Frickin Planet Namek, Imade's argument ignores the story and you're also ignoring the story as well, plus claiming I'm inflating a calc like I'm outrageous

That's funny because we use the manga for all three of those examples you gave. You do realize if you argue for cinematic timing you also go against the short time frame of the anime correct? That'd also fall under cinematic timing.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@Imade

We're doing the same thing we did for the manga, using inner dialogue and free talk to slow the story is just cinematic time, and you're argument is that the Meteor is slower than a normal one in reality which makes your argument ridiculous and completely ignores the concept of cinematic time which happened in both Manga and Anime

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

You're argument is that the Meteor is slower than a normal one in reality which makes your argument ridiculous

This is an appeal to reality fallacy if I've ever seen one.

 

[AstralKing7]

After more staff members showed up here what I understand is that the longer time frame is being ignored because of the cinematic timing rule.

With that in mind I don't see a reason why this is becoming so controversial. Everything was taken into account. There must be some misunderstanding here cause the staff even understands what's happening here

No cherry picking is happening it's clear cinematic timing

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Alright, you wanna see how flawed in logic Imades Argument is, the average cloud height we use on this site is 2,000 Meters, since the meteor cleared about half that distance to the ground, the Meteor traveled 1,000 Meters in 110 Seconds, that means the big Meteor that was going Sub-Relativistic speeds slowed down to 9.1 M/s in approximately a second, so the meteor all of sudden just went from super fast speeds to an Athletic Human, a Frickin Meteor going the speed of an athletic human while it's falling from the sky, unless Cinematic Time was used, then Imade truly believes the Meteor slowed down in a second to mere 1/1,000,000th of its speed in a second and is also falling at the speed of an athletic human, a Giant F*cking Rock falling at that Speed after being Sub-Relativistic

Do I have to go on

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Clouds can range, that's why we're using the atmosphere for the distance.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Most of the surfaces Atmosphere distance is 16,000 Meters, meaning that the Meteor in about a second went from Sub-Rel speeds to 72 m/s, still extremely illogical and it doesn't work with how a Meteor works, magically the Meteor slowed down super fast randomly and began moving at far too slow speeds, even tho Meteors are supposed to slow down to 70% of their speed, not that deceleration is ridiculous and makes no sense, this means the Meteor slowed to 0.0000026% of its speed randomly in one second

 

[Qawsedf234]

Fiction being unrealistic shouldn't be a surprising turn of events.

 

[AstralKing7]

When it gets to that point I think we ignore it^

 

[Qawsedf234]

Why? To be more precise I guess, what's the crux argument that the 110 seconds were cinematic time rather than fictional weirdness?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

We're talking about a calc, so Math is important and have physic breaking rules to justify your own argument is wrong

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

The fact that the meteor got to Earth from very far away in 10 seconds, then it seems to just get slower the moment it's in the atmosphere and the characters start to talk about it.

That said, could someone tell me from what episode is this so I can check something? We keep talking about cinematic timing and all that good stuff, but there's not even a single moment in those almost 2 minutes in which the meteor isn't shown or it doesn't look completely frozen in place because people be talking? Or even the speed at which is going when Erza is launching herself at it, unless that's also cinematic timing in every single frame?

 

[AstralKing7]

I'm pretty sure it's the latest episode

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

All I'm saying is that when during those 110 Seconds we see the meteor going slow because if it was it's real speed then we wouldn't see it because it'd be moving so fast and all the dialogue is just free action, the meteor would be going super fast insane speeds, just it's slowed down so we can get the thought process of everyone

 

[Davidsteel1]

Why? To be more precise I guess, what's the crux argument that the 110 seconds were cinematic time rather than fictional weirdness?

Reasonableness is the key word here. If we are to judge a feat whether to upgrade or downgrade we need to be reasonable in all our assumptions. Imade's suggestions are anything but reasonable.

The meteor slowing down upon entering earths atmosphere isn't what is unreasonable here (hence why the drop in speed is accounted for in the calc) what is unreasonable is to assume that a meteor in which particular emphasis has been placed on its speed would slow to such an extent that it becomes even slower than an average meteor irl.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

But we only use the anime timeframe or also use the anime for size scaling?

 

[1997KD]

If we use 110 sec timeframe, it will make it slower and weaker then jellal sema, when it's stated to be stronger then jellal sema, it's not too hard to understand

 

[PlumCrayfish376]

Does the calc take into mention how Erza did her best Kid Goku impression and blast her way toward the meteor, thus reducing the distance between the two, shortening the time it would take to reach if she was on the ground?

 

[1997KD]

^can we discussed meteor speed 1st, also she uses some kind of gauntlet go do it

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@Calc Members

The only Timeframe we can use in real time is the 10 seconds that show the Meteor flying from far away in space to the planet? There's no characters talking inbetween and it's one clear progression shot, of the Meteor going from point A to Point B, Everything afterwards is slowed down, has inner dialogue, and is timed awkwardly due to cinematic time, the only argument that would disprove the cinematic slowdown would be that everything afterwards, that being the 110 seconds is in real time, which would mean that the Meteor slowed down to a unreasonable degree that's clearly illogical and would most definitely break the scene, therefore the 10 second time period is the only thing that works, we did this before when we had the manga, so we should do it here as well, the Meteor should only be assumed to have slowed down to 70% of its Max speed which is how Meteors work in real life, because assuming a random other slow-downed speed or believing that everything afterwards is in real time just breaks the story and basic logic, the major reason behind considering the 110 seconds to be in real time is just to prevent an upgrade, and said argument may have somewhat of a point, but has so many flaws in it compared to the alternative, there's a lot more supporting that we count everything past the 10 second mark as Cinematic Time and just use the 10 seconds

EDIT: I went back and looked at those 109 seconds after the meteor enters the atmosphere and it's silly how much of it is cinematic time, we see...

• 42 seconds of Erza inner monologue
• 5 seconds of Fodder Dialogue
• 5 seconds of Irene Dialogue
• 21 seconds of Erza jumping up at the Meteor
• 36 seconds of Erza Dialogue where the Meteor apparently stops moving and is right in front of Erza's face which we see is going at an acceleration where she would get hit in 2 seconds, but she talks in mid air for 36 seconds, hence cinematic time

Basically, there we don't even see the Meteor for the majority of these 109 seconds, meaning that this supposedly being real time is simply ridiculous


See how close the Meteor and Erza get close to each other, well this scene is immediately followed by 36 Seconds of Erza talking in mid-air, If this was all real time, then Erza would have no time to talk for 36 Seconds, because the Meteor would crash into her in like 2 seconds based on the acceleration they're going at in this scene, meaning that all this is slowed down for cinematic time, and therefore the 109 seconds should not be added onto the timeframe of the calc, as those 109 seconds are artificially there just to show what the characters are thinking in a brief moment and show us what they're doing, if this scene was done in real time, you would blink and it would be over

 

[Captain_Torch]

@Torch


Irene's reality warping feat is irrelevant. It can't be used for AP so thats a non factor and at best its range since it's a hax. Same goes for August who claimed he'd destroy the country via suicide attack. Which needs to be calculated since its scaled to Etherion for whatever reason. Destroying the country is only High 6-B via nuclear destruction we dont know how August would destroy the country so it's moot.

It doesn't matter whether it's combat applicable or not. Irene's feat shows that she has enough power to affect a large countrty, so her being capable of similar feats, which ARE combat applicable, isn't a surprise. As for August, High 6-B is used as a lowball. We didn't get a crater, so we had to use an explosion yield instead.

 

[Yoyco]

I get a lot of people, don't like this feat bc of erza. But to be fair to her, she was wearing her strongest armor offensively. So her getting broken bc of a swipe from Irene while Erza had no defense & later destroying the meteor using all her power (Fire pants armor).

Kinda makes sense, ofc she doesn't have to scale (even tho I believe she should) just wanted to add this...

 

[The_Calaca]

@Torch

Second and hopefully last time. You having the range to Effect something doesn't give you any justification for said AP.

Universal range =/= Universal AP.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Everyone's stance so far

Agrees that everything that follows the Meteor entering the atmosphere is Cinematic Time: 12 (DemonGodMitchAubin, Davidsteel1, 1997KD, DragonEmperor23, TataHakai, AnonymousBlank, AstralKing7, Captain Torch, RustyOne, Aguila, Calaca Vs, Yoyco)

Disagrees that everything that follows the Meteor entering the atmosphere is Cinematic Time: 5 (Imade, StrongClick, Chibi14, Zackmoon, Prince of Counters)

Neutral: 5 (DMUA, Crimson Azoth, SirLancelot, Schnee One, Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan)

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

@Torch

Second and hopefully last time. You having the range to Effect something doesn't give you any justification for said AP.

Universal range =/= Universal AP.

THIS


All you can get from Irene is range and hax. That's not supporting evidence. As for August there isn't even a calc about his feat so labeling it as High 6-B is wrong. Especially taking into consideration his feat has nothing to do with explosions so that cant even be used.

 

[Captain_Torch]

@Torch

Second and hopefully last time. You having the range to Effect something doesn't give you any justification for said AP.

Universal range =/= Universal AP.

For the third time - I know. I'm not saying that she should scale to High 6-B. However, whenever we discuss whether something is an outlier or not, looking only at AP's feats is silly. Doflamingo for example. His Birdcage has city wide range, but isn't combat applicable. However whenever he gets a 7-B to 7-A feats, it can be used as justification for that feat. It's not a hard concept. There are multiple factors that come into play when determining whether a feat is an outlier or not.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Not to mention that at best this would be an outlier. 6-B for top tiers would be incredibly inconsistent whenever no feats even come near that for these characters.

That doesn't really make a lot of sense. This is the top tiers feat. The characters that are scaling to this are known to be far superior to the weaker characters. I don't see how having weaker characters in your verse with their feats mean that stronger characters can't have stronger feats without them being outliers.

That's like saying that the God of Darkness's 5-A feat is an outlier because besides his equally powerful brother, the rest of the verse is tier 8 or 7 and those weaker characters have tier 8 or 7 feats. Even though it is very clearly established that the Gods are much stronger than everyone else.

 

[Captain_Torch]

And as for August:

@Prince As I already said, High 6-B is used as a low-end for August's feat. If there is no crater for such a feat, we go for an Explosion Yield as a low-end. The wiki has always done it, so your argument is moot. I won't repeat myself on this subject

 

[The_Calaca]

@Torch I'm not arguing if this is an outlier or not. Just addresing your point about Irene and August's range which doesn't work to justify AP.

You can have 7-A AP without having mountain range. I heard that vaporizing a skyscraper is a 7-A feat and that isn't neccessarily mountain range.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

I'm pretty sure the Birdcage can be used for combat purposes. Isn't there a thread going on that's dealing with the scaling for that anyway making your comparison flawed? Theres nothing to support 6-B Erza and Co. Again the result is much much higher than anything in the series this far. Theres no consistency in it whatsoever. You keeping repeating your Irene argument however thats flawed since it's a hax and you cant get AP from hax. Lillie Barro had a 6-C feat then it was removed due to it being hax. Theres no difference here. Also give me the proof thats the default because as far as I'm aware that's never been a thing and should be looked at by a case by case basis. His feat is way too vague to calc properly so giving it a random tier is unsupported and impossible.

 

[Captain_Torch]

@Calaca Of course you can have certain AP without having the same range. However having the said range can be used as an argument against a feat being an outlier in a lot of cases

 

[The_Calaca]

I don't see how that is an argument at all.

Having a gun with 1km range doesn't give you 8-A AP. The application is important, and Irene's spells are hax.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

@Prince of Counters

This feat shows exactly how strong Irene is, there's nothing we need to look for support, since she straight up performs a feat on this level, plus she is supposed to be way stronger than any other character before, there is nothing that makes this feat an outlier just because it's stronger than the other characters, there's nothing that contradicts them being this strong

 

[The_Calaca]

@TPOC When there's a clear difference between the character's tiers such as between Irene and the rest of the cast, no, this is hardly an outlier and such argument is moot.

People needs to stop saying that something is an outlier because a feat jumps two tiers. No verse in fiction goes from every single tier in its story.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

@Dragon


Your reply makes no sense and let me tell you why.


That doesn't really make a lot of sense. This is the top tiers feat. The characters that are scaling to this are known to be far superior to the weaker characters. I don't see how having weaker characters in your verse with their feats mean that stronger characters can't have stronger feats without them being outliers.


First things first this type of argument only works with god tiers without feats. These are meesly top tiers pulling 6-B feats out of ******* nowhere. Hell Natsu's best feat is High 7-A and hes a lot stronger than Erza. Anco himself has a 6-C feat. Erza isn't a god tier or even close so yes 6-B half dead Erza is a total outlier.


That's like saying that the God of Darkness's 5-A feat is an outlier because besides his equally powerful brother, the rest of the verse is tier 8 or 7 and those weaker characters have tier 8 or 7 feats. Even though it is very clearly established that the Gods are much stronger than everyone else.


Miss me with that Golden Mean Fallacy Mate. The gods of Darkness and his brothers are the god tiers of RWBY. Nobody else scales to them aside from each other. And those characters are logically thousands upon thousands of times stronger than the rest of the verse and thats supported by the lore and context. This argument is laughable at best. Anyway the entire verse is just a bunch of wank, lol High 6-B FT wouldn't pass anywhere. But I'm gonna go on a guess and assume that because FT is poorly written the fans probably use the fact that people don't like it to get a free pass here in order to inflate the strength of these characters. Typically Fairy Tail bull shit. Rant over and unfollowed.

 

[Yoyco]

Anyway the timeframe seems fine

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

First of all, the feat isn't even 6-B, it's Low 6-B, second of all, that 6-C Acnologia roar was casual, also Erza only scales when Enhanced by Emotions, scaling makes your argument null, I mean there are tons of characters who have like 0 good feats, but they're on a level because they scale to someone else far above the feats they themselves have performed, your argument is sounding like one from incredulity

You're also sounding really hostile for some reason, and that just makes you look like a hater who wants to downgrade the verse for the simple fact that you don't like it

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Well, he got really mad for some reason, that whole rant added nothing to the discussion... regardless

Everyone's stance so far

Agrees that everything that follows the Meteor entering the atmosphere is Cinematic Time: 12 (DemonGodMitchAubin, Davidsteel1, 1997KD, DragonEmperor23, TataHakai, AnonymousBlank, AstralKing7, Captain Torch, RustyOne, Aguila, Calaca Vs, Yoyco)

Disagrees that everything that follows the Meteor entering the atmosphere is Cinematic Time: 5 (Imade, StrongClick, Chibi14, Zackmoon, Prince of Counters)

Neutral: 5 (DMUA, Crimson Azoth, SirLancelot, Schnee One, Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan)

 

[DragonEmperor23]

@Dragon

"Anco himself has a 6-C feat."

A casual feat. That doesn't mean he's 6-C.

"Hell Natsu's best feat is High 7-A and hes a lot stronger than Erza. Erza isn't a god tier or even close so yes 6-B half dead Erza is a total outlier."

You're forgetting that Erza was amped at the time.

You don't have to be a god tier to have a feat stronger than the weaker characters. Using RWBY as an example again, look at the difference between the Tier 7 characters like Rave and Cinder. Should their Tier 7 feats be outliers because they aren't God tiers and the tier 8s are much weaker than they are?

Yes, the gods are supported by the lore and context to be much stronger than everyone else. Just like how Dragon Irene, August, Zeref, and Acnologia(the people effected by this calc) are supported by multiple examples of being stronger than everyone else.

 

[1997KD]

we are arguing that it's a outlier for irene? When she stated that her dragon form boost her, and since she is a sage dragon her enchant is amplify even more?