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Again read my argument above. I took time and energy to send that man
itās titled demon dweller and demon destroyer, I tagged it in my most recent post above
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Tier Low 6-B Tournament of Regeneration 2022: Licht vs Yu Kanda
- Thread starter DemonicDude
- Start date
- Status
itās titled demon dweller and demon destroyer, I tagged it in my most recent post above
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He isn't absorbing Yu's Innocence, Innocence is not Magic.
speedster352
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innocence won't work he is not evil
Arkenis
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read.Again read my argument above. I took time and energy to send that man
itās titled demon dweller and demon destroyer, I tagged it in my most recent post above
Lichts force fields are getting destroyed, Innocence negs forcefields.
Absorption could be a problem but I don't remember it being passive so start of fight if Yu felt himself getting drained he'd just jump back until it didn't affect him.
The amount of AP boost Licht will obtain as a result is 1.7 Teratons + 1.3 Teratons = 3 teratons (Low 6B).
This ap amp is laughable compared to Yu's amps. In base Yu took a 1.7 Teraton hit, and 1.7 compared to 3 Teratons is not enough to one shot.
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Arkenis
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That's not the point. Innocence is directly different to magic in dgm and Licht wouldn't be able to absorb it. They've already argued how they wont equalize.
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Iām tagged 10 timesā¦. 10 TIMESā¦
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It doesnāt have to be called āmagicā, SBA states the supernatural energies can be equalized if they share similarities
Arkenis
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He literally explained the massive difference between them
Like come on now there's no way you think there's a significant enough comparison when Innocence has passive Causality, is actually from the God of the verse, and can effect dm on a macro quantum scale. These energies don't even remotely operate similarly beyond being Purifying types which isn't an indication of similarity but just a single affect.
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Both supernatural energies that purifies akuma/devils and destroy devils/akumas.
Even concept of synchronization is similar.
We have equalized for far less
. Or you gonna say Etherano is soooo similar to mana that Asta can negate it?Edit: Iāll come back to you, this thread is very busy, and Iām bombarded rn.
Arkenis
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Idek what etherano is. And as I said and you ignored, purification is a single effect not a basis for equalization when Innocence does so much moreBoth supernatural energies that purifies akuma/devils and destroy devils/akumas.
Even concept of synchronization is similar.
We have equalized for far less
Edit: Iāll come back to you, this thread is very busy, and Iām bombarded rn.
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Not what I even said but okay.
Once again, Speed stop talking about shit you know nothing about.
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"Enough" similarities.It doesnāt have to be called āmagicā, SBA states the supernatural energies can be equalized if they share similarities
Innocence is not similar enough to Magic to be considered the same.
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Etherano is already considered the same as Magic in Black Clover.Both supernatural energies that purifies akuma/devils and destroy devils/akumas.
Even concept of synchronization is similar.
We have equalized for far less
Edit: Iāll come back to you, this thread is very busy, and Iām bombarded rn.
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Which is why we should equalize for a proper fight. Mana and Innocence are both supernatural energies. Mana can be innocence provided certain conditions are met.
An attack mage (a mage possess mana) with a spirit (beings made of mana) must resonate with each other close to 100% and attain the ability to purify and destroy devils.
Mana can replicate innocence therefore it should be equalized for a fair fight!
Under SBA ofc and a pretty please from @DemonicDude
Etherano are magic particles that power well.. magic in Fairy Tale. There are a ton of difference between Etherano and mana but we equalize them anyway based on a couple of fundamental similarities.
Even though I will say yes for the last question, it does not matter as long as the super natural energies are similar.
Mana and Innocence can perform the same actions provided their respective conditions are met.
Now that both of you have probably read my argument, I donāt want to scroll up and reply stuff anymore. So I will continue from where these messages tagged here stops
Arkenis
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Massive conditions
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1. Can only be used by Spirit users / accommodators
2. Needs to be synchronized with their innocence/spirit
3. Can purify devils/Akuma
4. Can destroy Devils/Akuma
5. They are both supernatural energies that perform supernatural functions
6. Regular magic canāt destroy devils/Akuma
7. Users of both have spirit weapons/innocence weapons.
I hope this doesnāt devolve to āitās not called magic therefore it shouldnāt be equalizedā. I assume we are bigger than that.
The only difference is Mana is very versatile (it can perform functions of three different power systems) whereas Dāgray man seperates these three power systems but they are all supernatural energiesā¦
Arkenis
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Magic in dgm isn't even called Innocence. So yea Imma have to use that as an argument.
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Spirit Users and Accommodators are not the same, once again the only similarities are that of the Holy / Soul aspect.
Spirit Users do not gain their powers from the God of their verse. Spirit Users do not purge on a marco quantum level. Spirit Users do passively manipulate causality. Spirit Users cannot neg forcefields.
They are not the same or even similar enough to be equalized.
Irrelevant.
Devils and Akuma are not the same.
Devil's regenerate, Akuma do not. Akuma are hunks of metal given souls, Devils are not. Akuma use Dark Matter which contains hax that Devils do not have. Devils use a form of Magic, Akuma do not.
Irrelevant, Akuma are not the same as Devil's. Apples to Oranges.
Not quite, them being supernatural in nature isn't grounds for equalization. They do not function similarly (Saint Stage does not passively manipulate Causality, does not destroy at a macro quantum level, does not negate force fields, does not originate from the literal God of the verse, and is Magic based whereas Innocence is not.)
Which is irrelevant, and Magic (Cross's Magic.) explicitly works on Akuma.
Which is the case for every verse, and unlike BC, DGM has layered soul Manipulation.
????
Blatant strawman and argument from ignorance. It's been explained to you multiple times that Innocence cannot be equalized to Magic.
Innocence and Dark Matter are much more versatile than Mana.
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Nothing bc now apparently Mana has 6+ layers, beyond Marco quantum levels of soul destruction, Passive causality Manipulation, EE, with every attack.
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never said they were the same thing though.
I said only Spirit users and accommodators can purify devils/Akuma in their verse.
why the misinterpretation?
Neither does innocence, itās just a certain material of unknown origins that was given the name āCrystal of Godā many years ago.
1. I donāt need it to be exactly the same. As long as the fundamental principles are present (yknowā¦ purifying evil beings and holiness and stuff).
2. Please read below, especially the ones in bold
Mechanics and similarity I have already mentionedā¦ Calling side abilities and functions are really just irrelevant to the standards of verse equalization. Licht simply wouldnāt get those extra perks.
Mechanics are not irrelevant
again, never said they were the same entities. I said they are somehow similar. they just have to be unholy evil beings that can be destroyed via purification for verse equalization to work. Again similar mechanics.
(I read what you said right after this) Youāre missing the point. I am equalizing mana/magic and innocence because purification and Saint stage mage ability to destroy devils is STILL magic.
Donāt split my message in two again please, thank you.
You literally corrupted my argument and you accuse me of strawman? Lol very funny, part of me hopes it was an accident.
If you are talking about him using magic to control a paralysis type innocence then noā¦ plus I never said magic donāt work I said it canāt be used to kill.
well thatās your opinion boss
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Just seeing this my bad.
but it seems youāve read it.
But with your reasoning I can pick out a bunch of abilities Etherano can do that Bc magic canāt and vice versa. And claim Etherano canāt be equalized because mana isnāt Etherano.
Right?
They donāt need to be ācalledā magic.
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To be honest, why do we need to completely equate these supernatural energies.
if it was possible, we would not need to equalize in the first place
if it was possible, we would not need to equalize in the first place
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danmaku bro. Why would he hold back danmakuā¦ taking strikes and blasts from Amped Licht.
Arkenis
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Not really my point. I'm more on the fact that Magic in dgm is already different from Innocence, and then you're tryna make bc Saint Stage similar cuz of Purification.
So you don't want them equalized? I'm confused, we don't actually need them to be equalized for this fight to happen or for the energies to interact, you just want it so your character can get an advantage, an overwhelming advantage might I add. Your character just won't be able to absorb or other hax but the hax can still work on Yu himself.
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Yeah I agree with this sentiment. Tho I'm not saying it's applicable in this specific scenario- I don't think it makes much sense for energies to be completely the same. As long as they function similarly then it should work.
Arkenis
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let me see his danmaku
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HUHHH
ME GIVE LICHT AN ADVANTAGE?
BRO IM TRYING TO MAKE HIM NOT BE AT A DISADVANTAGE
the arguments here are just āitās not magic so all of Licthās ability wonāt workā
How is this a fair fight?
And I fully acknowledge this.
The verse has 3 supernatural energy systems.
I know.
but saying innocence and magic canāt be equalized because there is already magic in the verse is flawed.
In Black Clover, there are two (or three) mana systems. Mana/magic, negative mana/forbidden magic (magic from the underworld), devil magic (this may not be different from regular magic as itās just mana with intense malice), Anti magic, True magic/nature mana. They are three different supernatural energies that have their own plot purposes but are similar because itās called magic. Demon Dweller doesnāt discriminate even to anti magic, cuz thatās not magic.
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Exactly!!
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Aight. You see this? This doesnāt matter. What do you think any fight between Licht or Asta or Zagred or whoever comes down to against a magic user? Lichtās entire kit not doing shit in a fight is just tough luck as thatās the exact same thing every magic user he is thrown against has to deal with. With your logic, we shouldnāt equalise energies when magic users fight magic power null since the magic user will be put at a disadvantage.
Every fight has advantages and disadvantages because thatās how fights work. The winner being the guy who has the bigger advantage over the other one.
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āit doesnāt matterā
āItās just tough luckā
āWith my logic, we shouldnāt equlize energies when magic users fight magic power null because magic users will be put at a disadvantageā
For starters, that will be a stomp matchā¦ With āmy logicā I am hoping for a fair fight. I donāt appreciate that.
The past two to four matches in this tournament we either attempted to equalize energies, restricted abilities (Yu vs Issei: Issei was heavily restricted), changed literal characters, added an entire ocean to the tournament location that has no ocean at all.
For a fair fight
But when itās my turn, āitās just tough luckā
right?
Alright thenā¦
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Iād like to tackle Kandaās boost.
Kandaās speed and power are boosted unquantifiably but yet we treat it as speed blitzingā¦ why?
Licht can also amp his speed with reinforcement magic, can fly with great freedom and maneuverability, possesses stealth mastery and teleportation.
Licht can also amp his power with reinforcement magic, can also draw power from the underworld to amp himself. So what exactly puts Yu over Licht with those amps?
So why exactly does Yu Kanda speed blitz
What stops Litch from spamming attacks in the air. Yu Kanda canāt even fly. If he had a brain, he wonāt use his suicide amps against someone who he canāt reach and canāt sense
Kandaās speed and power are boosted unquantifiably but yet we treat it as speed blitzingā¦ why?
Licht can also amp his speed with reinforcement magic, can fly with great freedom and maneuverability, possesses stealth mastery and teleportation.
Licht can also amp his power with reinforcement magic, can also draw power from the underworld to amp himself. So what exactly puts Yu over Licht with those amps?
So why exactly does Yu Kanda speed blitz
What stops Litch from spamming attacks in the air. Yu Kanda canāt even fly. If he had a brain, he wonāt use his suicide amps against someone who he canāt reach and canāt sense
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Fights donāt have to be fair. Thatās how stomps exist in vs debating. What you want to do is skew something in someoneās favor when itās not needed. If Yu simply resisted Lichtās power null via sheer layers, would you be asking to remove his resistances? I would think not as that is unreasonable. Whatās happening here is the same. Yu doesnāt use magic and you are trying to equate whatever Yu has to magic in BC off of some generic traits. We donāt equate reiatsu and Haki just because reiatsu can boost AP/dura and make people foam at the mouth/fall unconscious with aura.
Energies get equalised when it makes sense. How was Yu vs Issei heavily restricted? They both had access to their full kits.
I disagree with changing characters as a whole and the ocean thing was absolutely stupid. Swapping out ENO however made perfect sense as no one had the ability to actually do anything to him. He was a giant blob of water that no one could actually disperse and lacked shit like a mind, soul or energy system for people to even affect.
Bro ā¦ did you even see what happened in the last Low 6-B tourney? It was Asta, Dry and a dozen+ magic users who all got passively nulled by Asta. That shit sure aināt fair but Asta still stomped 90% of the tourney because thatās how the dice rolled. If anything, yes itās your turn to have to deal with āitās just tough luckā.
Come on dude. Donāt play the victim here when this was the same thing as Issei vs Licht. Sacred Gears arenāt magic and are separate from all the different energy systems in DxD so Licht couldnāt anti magic that shit. Are you saying we should redo that match and make it so that Isseiās only powers that worked get negged? Because that is exactly what you are asking right now. If someone doesnāt use magic, that is tough luck. Itās not like people are specifically picking matches where Licht canāt do anything when there is a whole host of varying characters who are then thrown into randomised matches.
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Now I see where the hesitation comes from. I understand now.
Issei couldnāt use his divide and boost effectively. Last time I checked Kanda won the match, or did Issei win?
ENO was ENW and Jin could disperse it but there was an issue of ENW not being 6B so it became ENO. Mind stuff was arguable. But itās fine that heās out.
No I wonāt, I wonāt call for a fair match unless I notice how the debates have been going thus far.
I know stomp matches exist but I need to exhaust all of my options before accepting defeat.
Sorry for the tantrum. Iāve moved on from equalizing the energies. I think Licht can still fight without it. I realized that during the proposal.
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I only requested for it to be equalized thinking Licht was at a disadvantage. My judgement was based on how the debate was going and I didnāt make my own analysis.
Although Lichtās abilities are restricted, I know itās still a fair fight. I know that now.
Although Lichtās abilities are restricted, I know itās still a fair fight. I know that now.
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