Tien Shinhan High 4-C upgrade

[Vizer04]

Tien Shinhan should have a High 4-C rating while using the Tri-Beam attack since he used it to push Semi-Perfect Cell into the ground, allowing 16 and 18 to escape. This technique badly drained Tien and nearly killed him.

Cell was unfazed by 16's punch:

Tien pushed Cell into the ground with the Tri-Beam. Cell wasn't able to fly away even when he desperately wanted to catch 18:

Tien Shinhan didn't use the Tri-Beam against 19 and 20 because he saw 19 absorbing the Kamehameha:

Tien Shinhan didn't use the Tri-Beam against 17 and 18 because he never had a chance to use it. Vegeta and the others were in very close proximity to the Androids and would've gotten caught up in the attack:

They also didn't know the full extent of 17 and 18's abilities. For all they knew, they could absorb energy just like 19 and 20 instead of having infinite energy.

Agree: 5 (@Vizer04, @TegamiBachi25, @Bernkastelll, @Celestial and @CloverDragon03)

Neutral: 1 (@Damage3245)

Disagree: 1 (@DarkDragonMedeus)

 

[Dalesean027]

This never EVER nearly killed Cell, he was just being pushed down but was otherwise unharmed by the beam

 

[Vizer04]

This never EVER nearly killed Cell, he was just being pushed down but was otherwise unharmed by the beam

He was visibly hurt and that's more than anything 16 could do.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

This never EVER nearly killed Cell, he was just being pushed down but was otherwise unharmed by the beam

The "nearly killed" thing is about Tien himself, not Cell.

He's arguing that because Cell wasn't moved by 16's attacks but was by Tien's Tri-Beam, it should be >16.

 

[Dalesean027]

The "nearly killed" thing is about Tien himself, not Cell.

Ah okay his wording needs fixing then

He was visibly hurt and that's more than anything 16 could do.

Still tho Cell is unharmed he is literally just being pushed down

 

[Just_Butchering]

Ah okay his wording needs fixing then
Still tho Cell is unharmed he is literally just being pushed down

I think the point still stands, Tien's Tribeam did more than 16's punch could. Even if he didn't hurt Cell at all, he should scales above 16 with that technique specifically

 

[Dalesean027]

I think the point still stands, Tien's Tribeam did more than 16's punch could. Even if he didn't hurt Cell at all, he should scales above 16 with that technique specifically

I mean sure ig it just feels iffy to me since we're essentially saying tien 1 shot kills the rest of the squad pre-time chamber with this but like I do see the logic

 

[Just_Butchering]

I mean sure ig it just feels iffy to me since we're essentially saying tien 1 shot kills the rest of the squad pre-time chamber with this but like I do see the logic

And Krillin's Kienzan is also OP af and he never uses it or when he uses it he misses or some shit lol

It's just plot shafting the humans(?

 

[TegamiBachi25]

One of the scan you used is anime DBZ but assuming it happens the same as manga, I'm willing to take your word for it, since both have same plotline with Toei anime having filler in between such as Krillin tricking Cell at one point. Not mod, but seems to make sense. So I agree

Might also scale to Toei Anime Tien with Kikoho in 3-C to Toei Semi Perfect Cell if the rest of the human z fighters (yamcha, tien, and chiaotsu) ever get a profile .

 

[Ednaxel2]

One of the scan you used is anime DBZ but assuming it happens the same as manga, I'm willing to take your word for it, since both have same plotline with Toei anime having filler in between such as Krillin tricking Cell at one point. Not mod, but seems to make sense. So I agree

Yeah it happens

 

[Ednaxel2]

Might also scale to Toei Anime Tien with Kikoho in 3-C to Toei Semi Perfect Cell if the rest of the human z fighters (yamcha, tien, and chiaotsu) ever get a profile .

They have extra stuff too, like fighting the Ginyu force, and Yamcha keeping up with Olibu

 

[Just_Butchering]

They have extra stuff too, like fighting the Ginyu force, and Yamcha keeping up with Olibu

Keeping up? I think he clapped him lol. Also I think Krillin briefly fought Kid Buu or some lol

 

[Vizer04]

Might also scale to Toei Anime Tien with Kikoho in 3-C to Toei Semi Perfect Cell

I... didn't think of that. If we ever make a Toei profile for him he should have that rating, yes.

 

[Bernkastelll]

I agree

 

[BlackeJan]

I think the point still stands, Tien's Tribeam did more than 16's punch could. Even if he didn't hurt Cell at all, he should scales above 16 with that technique specifically

Unless this means that their attack can be augmented through ki cause Android 16 >>>>> Tien but Tie using his best attacks could push down Cell but 16’s punch couldn’t do anything

 

[CelestialVortex01]

Well, I can see a High 4-C rating but via Tri-Beam

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Tien used to have the rating but it was removed for various reasons. First of all, it didn't really do significant damage to Semi-Perfect Cell, it mostly just delayed the inevitable. The Tri Beam seemed to more so cause short term paralysis rather than actually do any real damage; and Tien himself openly admits he doesn't stand a chance and is far weaker than the Saiyans or Piccolo. And even if it had grounds for downscaling, it would still be within the realm of inconsistency/outlier.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Tien used to have the rating but it was removed for various reasons. First of all, it didn't really do significant damage to Semi-Perfect Cell, it mostly just delayed the inevitable. The Tri Beam seemed to more so cause short term paralysis rather than actually do any real damage; and Tien himself openly admits he doesn't stand a chance and is far weaker than the Saiyans or Piccolo. And even if it had grounds for downscaling, it would still be within the realm of inconsistency/outlier.

The argument isn't for downscaling or anything like that, it's just that it did more to Semi-Perfect Cell than a punch from Android 16 could, thus scaling the Neo Tri-Beam above Android 16. It wouldn't be an outlier either, as it's legit the only time Tien uses this technique in Z

 

[Damage3245]

I'm not against this proposal; I've advocated before that DBZ characters can output much higher levels of AP with special attacks sometimes like the Kikoho or charged-up Kamehameha, etc. Will reserve judgement till I see any more responses.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I'm not against this proposal; I've advocated before that DBZ characters can output much higher levels of AP with special attacks sometimes like the Kikoho or charged-up Kamehameha, etc. Will reserve judgement till I see any more responses.

There are definitely cases where this should be done, yes. My concern admittedly is the extent to which this is done, which is something I don't entirely agree with in terms of how it's being done now

Stuff like Neo Tri-Beam, Final Explosion, and the Final Flash against Cell though? Yeah absolutely

 

[DivineAura44]

I'm not crazy right? Like we did this EXACT thread before, right??

 

[DivineAura44]

Tien used to have the rating but it was removed for various reasons. First of all, it didn't really do significant damage to Semi-Perfect Cell, it mostly just delayed the inevitable. The Tri Beam seemed to more so cause short term paralysis rather than actually do any real damage;

The argument (at least if it was the same as before) isn't that he's able to damage Cell, it's that he had a bigger effect than the Androids (via being able to stun him) therefore Tien (w/ Tri-Beam) > Androids > Tien (regular).

Tien himself openly admits he doesn't stand a chance and is far weaker than the Saiyans or Piccolo. And even if it had grounds for downscaling, it would still be within the realm of inconsistency/outlier.

The reason he says he doesn't stand a chance is because the move takes a lot of energy from Tien so he wouldn't be able to do enough to kill Cell before regeneration, just harm him. Unlike the saiyans who could sustain their AP.

It's not an outlier to say that the move which drains all of the life energy from the user would multiply it to a level beyond his normals. It's in no way an outlier because you have no other times Tien has used this move.

Meanwhile other self harming techniques like Vegeta's Final Explosion, Saibaman's Self Destruct, and Chiaotzu's Self Destruct hurt or even killed users who stomp levels above them.



TL;DR: None of these arguments hold up and I debunked them back when they were first made.

Edit: The argument that got Tien downgraded had nothing to do with any of these. The argument came from Tien saying he'd stand no chance against the Androids which I can debunk again if necessary.

 

[Dalesean027]

I'm not crazy right? Like we did this EXACT thread before, right??

Yup

 

[DivineAura44]

Yup

Just message Gilad and we can really redo this thread

 

[Vizer04]

The Super Saiyans and Super Namekian were strong enough to (supposedly) take care of the Android threat. Tien wasn't going to just use a technique that could kill him with no possibility of wishing him back with Earth's Dragon Balls.

The moment Cell became an even bigger threat for the Z-Fighters, Tien immediately took action.