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Link doesn't work by the way.
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Tien and co. back to 5-C (Dragon Ball Revision)
- Thread starter The_Yellow_Topaz
- Start date
- Status
Link doesn't work by the way.
Nullflowerblush
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Fixed.
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Still don't work
It's this
It's this
Eden_Warlock99
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Saiyan Saga Roshi had a Power Level of 139, so nah
Also that Power Level is explained here as Roshi's Kamehameha
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In his relaxed, casual state.
Please understand that you're just taking someone's interpretation there. They say "Perhaps". They're speculating.
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casual roshi had a pl of 139, people have higher PLs when exerting more kiSaiyan Saga Roshi had a Power Level of 139, so nah
Also that Power Level is explained here as Roshi's Kamehameha
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Saiyan Saga Roshi without being in combat and just existing how he is is a 139
Roshi seriously trying ≠ casual roshi
That is somebody's summary for it, not what he saysAlso that Power Level is explained here as Roshi's Kamehameha
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,345
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Fair enough, but the Yamcha with a Power Level of 177 already surpassed him, so probably not
"He fires the original kamehameha" is in the original, no?
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What do you think that means?
Because as far as I can tell, that's just an explanation of who Roshi is. Not a statement about his Power Level.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,345
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That's a valid interpretation, I suppose
However, someone with a Power Level of 177 surpassing him makes it pretty dubious
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,820
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Roshi never used the Kamehameha in the King Piccolo Saga. His only attack in the entire story arc before dying was the Mafuba.
"He fires the original Kamehameha" appears to be a funny way of saying "He invented the technique".
Nullflowerblush
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Serlock_Holmes
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I would say a joke but it would probably end up bad for me so I will shut up.
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Say it! Say it! Say it!
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
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And head straight to RVR no thanks!
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,345
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If we take that approach, we might as well just say that the Guide is wrong since it puts someone we already accept as above Roshi (Yamcha: 177) below him (Roshi: 180)
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Incredibly based result
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,820
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That is fine, too. Weekly Shonen Jump's and the Daizenshuu's lists of Power Levels are conflicting in nature, and the former makes mistakes like placing Kami below Demon King Piccolo. Then again, Bulma could have captured Yamcha inactive, rather than actively raising his Ki. They had only just reached The Lookout.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,345
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Actually, the Weekly Shonen Jump lists Teen Goku's Power Level as 910, it's definitely not usable
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Serlock_Holmes
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Casual Mr. Popo > Goku during Raditz. Yeah it's not very trustworthy. So back to 139 casual after training for 22nd Budokai. We will make what we can with that.
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he is stronger though
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
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What do you mean?
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,820
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Wouldn't exactly say the Daizenshuu's Power Levels are very reliable either.
- Beginning of Series Goku is apparently only twice as powerful as normal humans.
- Beginning of Z Roshi had a Power Level of 139, which the Kanzenshuu article points out.
- Never corroborated by the original series.
Serlock_Holmes
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Bos Goku PL doesn't really contradict anything as PL really don't have any way to be scaled. I don't think Pl was ever accepted as linear. Also couldn't understand the issue with Roshi?
Nullflowerblush
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Straight from the-
...horse's mouth?
Roshi implies that 139 is his limit when Krillin suggests he can easily trump his strength.
Also, where'd this "casual" footnote originate? The 139 metric refers to the Jackie Chun that fought Tien. His accompanying image is a depiction of an active exertion of strength, the page before he used the Afterimage Strike, and 139 is the only available metric, which implies that is his "maximum" power.
This is further substantiated by the fact that Beginning of Z Goku and Piccolo are listed with their unweighted Power Levels, rather than their weighted and unweighted Power Levels. It appears as if the list covers their maximum abilities demonstrated, with the exception of Gohan, as his power fluctuates.
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The DB wiki claims that's Goku's power when using the Super Kamehameha in the 23rd Budokai. Do you have a source that contradicts that?
Nullflowerblush
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Ah, yes.
Weekly Shonen Jump, which never clarifies whether the Power Level refers to his normal strength or his Kamehameha. The number is shown to broadly represent his strength against Piccolo Jr. but before reaching 8,000 after his training with King Kai.
Is the number likely referring to his Kamehameha? Likely. But y'know.
The_Yellow_Topaz
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- Thread starter
- #269
Okay, I'll acknowledge KingTempest, Damage and everyone's conclusions of this, I believe we can reach a compromise. I'll make a big post summarizing what we already agree with. We've already debated enough and made ourselves clear, so what I will try to do is;
- Summarize all the evidence
- Acknowledge everyone's points
- Gather votes for the most acceptable conclusions (we will do three ends)
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I'm not familiar with Weekly Shonen Jump's presentation of power levels. That's why I am asking.
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
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- Thread starter
- #271
It directly contradicts the source material, and better guides so it likely shouldn't be taken into account. (Not saying it's unusable, just discard the incorrect info)
Serlock_Holmes
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Fully onboard with that. If someone wants to reopen the topic at a later date they can do so but for now I don't think anymore more can be said.
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Sure, we're at...over 270 posts now. That should be more than sufficient.
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
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- Thread starter
- #274
Just need @Damage3245 and @KingTempest to be on board and I'll re-read the whole thing. Funny enough we didn't have much time to touch on Kikoho since we've been debating about scaling.
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Well, I'll be happy to see a summary of course.
I can't promise not to argue anymore if I think there's something in the summary that's incorrect or misinterpreted, haha.
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
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- Thread starter
- #276
That's fair, I'll do my best to represent everyone fair and square!
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Let me get this straight OP is arguing that Max Power Roshi scales to the super kamehameha since he has to be that powerful to shoot off the attack? Is the argument here that max power roshi = super kamehameha?
But the attack has to be somewhat larger than his own power level so I don't see why roshi would completely scale to this normally. I know that Roshi has to be max power to shoot off the attack but he still wouldn't completely scale to it.
But the attack has to be somewhat larger than his own power level so I don't see why roshi would completely scale to this normally. I know that Roshi has to be max power to shoot off the attack but he still wouldn't completely scale to it.
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We're waiting on a summary post to finalize things and get final opinions so for now lets just wait on that as to not stir up new arguments
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First the One Piece downgrade from High 6-A, now this.
KT is stealing your identity.
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I'm still in the camp of 5-C physicals personally, but I have no interest in full-on debating it, as trying to do so last time resulted in an incredibly poisoned well.
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