Tien Shinhan High 4-C upgrade

[DivineAura44]

I meant to respond to every point you made, rather than just one (but I accidentally sent it.) I'm gonna stop to address every point so every argument is compiled.
I just wanna point out that by your argument, 17 would have been off guard anyways so he would have been one shot yet for some odd reason Tien doesn't do it there.

 

[Just_Butchering]

All the Z-Fighters took dumbass decisions in this arc, let's not pretend Tien not using the Tri-Beam is incoherent lol.

Like, the arcs happens because a time traveler told them about the androids and they decided to train instead of prevent this lmao

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

All the Z-Fighters took dumbass decisions in this arc, let's not pretend Tien not using the Tri-Beam is incoherent lol.

Like, the arcs happens because a time traveler told them about the androids and they decided to train instead of prevent this lmao

PIS isn't a justification for this. If your only argument is that he didn't use it because he was stupid, then this is not a good sign. Tien himself stated they can't beat them, so even if he'd have gotten a clear shot with the neo tri beam on them it wouldn't work, even though a blast that is stronger than Android 16 will one shot both of them

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I just wanna point out that by your argument, 17 would have been off guard anyways so he would have been one shot yet for some odd reason Tien doesn't do it there.

17 wouldn't try to prevent Tien from doing this as he's pretty cocky and he wouldn't know Tien is capable of such a blast. And given Tien thought they will lose even if he tried to use it on them means it wouldn't have worked on them

 

[CloverDragon03]

PIS isn't a justification for this. If your only argument is that he didn't use it because he was stupid, then this is not a good sign. Tien himself stated they can't beat them, so even if he'd have gotten a clear shot with the neo tri beam on them it wouldn't work, even though a blast that is stronger than Android 16 will one shot both of them

You're actually very much able to write something off as PIS if the scaling is justified and the only reason [X] thing you're mentioning doesn't happen is because of plot

Like, you really can't deny that the Neo Tri-Beam did more to Semi-Perfect Cell than Android 16 ever did

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Like, you really can't deny that the Neo Tri-Beam did more to Semi-Perfect Cell than Android 16 ever did

Both did nothing. Cell was only knocked back by the tri beam, and I can defintely say when it contradicts earlier statements from Tien himself. If he had this much power already, he would've known the power of the neo tri beam is far stronger than SSJ Vegeta, but Tien still treats Vegeta and Goku's power as vastly above everyone else, including his own, even though he's aware of his own technique

This will also lead to absurd matches such as Tien VS 17, where you can make an argument Tien wins because of this even though in the manga he said directly none of them stood a chance, especially after Vegeta was defeated by 18

The scaling makes no sense when Tien himself stated every Super Saiyan was far above him and everyone else, so:

Tien with Tri Beam > Android 16 >> Android 17 > SSJ Vegeta >>> Tien (Including the tri beam) ???

 

[Huesito88]

This will also lead to absurd matches such as Tien VS 17, where you can make an argument Tien wins because of this even though in the manga he said directly none of them stood a chance, especially after Vegeta was defeated by 18

Well it's a good thing we now have established rules for in universe matches (cough thank you Zeno vs Hit cough)

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Well it's a good thing we now have established rules for in universe matches (cough thank you Zeno vs Hit cough)

I mean I don't think anyone seriously suggests Hit can kill Zeno or even blitz him. Meanwhile this upgrades suggests Tien could kill Android 17 in a VS battle match even though in universe he can't win. People will literally claim this if it goes through

Also Hit VS Zeno was because of Zeno not resisting hax supposedly, while Tien VS 17 would be just AP vs durability. These are 2 different scenarions so the rule isn't relevant here

 

[Damage3245]

Fused Zamasu is way more powerful than Vegeta, yet Vegeta could still blast him to pieces and Zamasu only survived because of his immortality.

Moro with Seven-Three absorbed is way more powerful than Goku, yet Goku could still blast his arm off. If he had blasted Moro's head clean off, he'd have killed him.

Tien having a move that could kill Android 17 in theory isn't that big of an issue. It's like Krillin's Kienzan could've theoretically killed Frieza if he'd decapitated him instead of just hitting his tail. If Krillin could've killed the Androids by cutting them in half with his Kienzan, it would've been bad writing to have him not even try it but it wouldn't be impossible just because he never got the chance to do it.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Tien having a move that could kill Android 17 in theory isn't that big of an issue. It's like Krillin's Kienzan could've theoretically killed Frieza if he'd decapitated him instead of just hitting his tail.

Krillin wouldn't have been able to kill Frieza though. He survived getting sliced by his own version of the Kienzan. Frieza even was shown to survive as chopped pieces, meaning Trunks only killed him when vaporizing him, so that's not really a good example to use

If Krillin could've killed the Androids by cutting them in half with his Kienzan, it would've been bad writing to have him not even try it but it wouldn't be impossible just because he never got the chance to do it.

That wasn't confirmed, as when he tried shooting at Perfect Cell, but Cell's ki alone blocked Krillin's Kienzan

Fused Zamasu is way more powerful than Vegeta, yet Vegeta could still blast him to pieces and Zamasu only survived because of his immortality.

Goku blasted Cell's entire head off and he wasn't stronger than Cell at all. Also, that was Infinite Zamasu. It's very likely he let himself be blown up precisely because he was immortal and each time he regenerated he basically multiplied. so Vegeta blasting him only made him stronger

 

[Damage3245]

Goku blasted Cell's entire head off and he wasn't stronger than Cell at all.

That's exactly my point.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

That's exactly my point.

Though unlike with the Androids, all the villains mentioned had regeneration, or were caught off guard when it happened. Goku used a Kienzan to slice Super Buu in half too but no one would say Goku was stronger

All of the examples you listed are from weaker foes being able to damage stronger beings and potentially kill them with weaker attacks (Goku's Kamehameha, Vegeta's Blast, the Kienzan on Frieza/Cell/Buu, Goku blasting Moro), but the upgrade suggests instead that the tri beam is actually stronger than Android 17 because of that even though we saw many examples like that before and they don't get upgraded. No one will scale Goku to Cell because of the instant kamehameha for example

 

[Damage3245]

Though unlike with the Androids, all the villains mentioned had regeneration, or were caught off guard when it happened. Goku used a Kienzan to slice Super Buu in half too but no one would say Goku was stronger

Nobody is saying that Tien is stronger than the Androids either... It's just with one specific attack.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Both did nothing. Cell was only knocked back by the tri beam, and I can defintely say when it contradicts earlier statements from Tien himself. If he had this much power already, he would've known the power of the neo tri beam is far stronger than SSJ Vegeta, but Tien still treats Vegeta and Goku's power as vastly above everyone else, including his own, even though he's aware of his own technique

Plot-Induced Stupidity. Let's not forget the arc we're talking about here

Also the fact remains that knocking down Cell to the point that he couldn't escape even when he was desperately trying to get to 18 is a more impressive feat than anything 16 could do to him. Tien treating Vegeta and Goku's power above his own makes complete sense btw, because he can only amp his power to that level via one technique that would literally kill him to use. Anyone can amp themselves by a lot in exchange for their life. That's not a foreign concept

This will also lead to absurd matches such as Tien VS 17, where you can make an argument Tien wins because of this even though in the manga he said directly none of them stood a chance, especially after Vegeta was defeated by 18

The scaling makes no sense when Tien himself stated every Super Saiyan was far above him and everyone else, so:

Tien with Tri Beam > Android 16 >> Android 17 > SSJ Vegeta >>> Tien (Including the tri beam) ???

"It will result in VS matches I don't like" isn't a reason to oppose a CRT. The rest I've addressed already

 

[Just_Butchering]

"It will result in VS matches I don't like" isn't a reason to oppose a CRT. The rest I've addressed already

Yeah, and tbf, unless speed is equalized and Tien is bloodlusted or has prior knowledge, he ain't using Tri-Beam (actually, this is just Neo Tri-Beam I think) in-character as an opening attack

 

[DivineAura44]

And given Tien thought they will lose even if he tried to use it on them means it wouldn't have worked on them

So you think the move that stunned Semi-Perfect Cell wouldn't have worked on A17? Are we serious right now? This is why I gotta respond to the other points.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

So you think the move that stunned Semi-Perfect Cell wouldn't have worked on A17? Are we serious right now? This is why I gotta respond to the other points.

It would've stunned 17, but not kill him, because Tien himself said as such

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Nobody is saying that Tien is stronger than the Androids either... It's just with one specific attack.

Literally yes you do with the tri beam. With the tri beam you scale him to above 16.

It's like I'd give Cell Games Goku a rating of "higher" with the Kamehameha and scale him above Perfect Cell for blowing his head out, or DBS Manga SSB Goku gets scaled above UI Sign Goku with the Kamehameha as well because he blew up Moro's Arm