Thor Lifting Strength Upgrade

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Seems good to me and covers everything, though would the tiering be just 2-C, or 2-C possibly 2-A? I know the way we tier Yggdrasil-feats depends on if it was affecting just the 9 realms or the entirety of Yggdrasil, so what would this be affecting?

Nah, in the story it is made clear that what Thor was pushing was actually just the 9 Realms

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, it is a 2-C feat. We cannot retroactively apply upgrades to Ygdrasil that were established 20 years later.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, maybe we could word it somewhat like this?

"High 6-C when holding back, 3-C when not holding back, up to 2-C by overexerting himself or via the God-Blast."

A similar principle applies with Thor's God-Blast, yes.

Thank you for the image gallery, but how should we word the justification for the feat in Thor's wiki page?

Would something like this be acceptable and accurately described?

"(Reversed time in all of the Nine Worlds through sheer physical force by pushing the World Engine which contained Ygdrasil, the world tree.)"

@The_Impress @KLOL506 @LordTracer @Eficiente @Confluctor @Qawsedf234

Is this acceptable for you?

Input from non-staff members is also appreciated.

 

[Confluctor]

Probably ye

 

[Excellence616]

Agree

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Is somebody here willing and able to properly apply the revision?

 

[Antvasima]

We have to wait a bit longer for more input first though.

 

[KLOL506]

@The_Impress @KLOL506 @LordTracer @Eficiente @Confluctor @Qawsedf234

Is this acceptable for you?

Input from non-staff members is also appreciated.

Seems fine.

 

[Eficiente]

Some small change that should also be added to Thor's profile is to more the list of reasons as to why he holds back away from his Standard Tactics into either a Note, by making his notes be numbered and so simply say "see note 4", or an Explanations subsection, because Standard Tactics is not made to give extra room to the reasoning in AP, but to say what the characters do in battle.

 

[Antvasima]

Some small change that should also be added to Thor's profile is to more the list of reasons as to why he holds back away from his Standard Tactics into either a Note, by making his notes be numbered and so simply say "see note 4", or an Explanations subsection, because Standard Tactics is not made to give extra room to the reasoning in AP, but to say what the characters do in battle.

This makes sense to me.

 

[The_Impress]

It's fine from me :v

 

[Antvasima]

So is somebody willing and able to properly apply this change to his page?

 

[Eficiente]

I propose this:

"Attack Potency: Large Island level when holding back (Normally operates under a far lower power level in fear of killing his mortal opponents, [[#Explanation|see the Explanation section bellow]]. Has repeatedly fought a Hulk on this level, Loki and Wrecker, and has contented with the Thing, Dr. Doom, Namor, Super-Skrull and High Evolutionary), Galaxy level when not holding back (It is hinted that he shook the universe as a side effect of the launch of Mjolnir. Created a storm so powerful that its winds reached the Earth from Asgard, causing great destruction. By amplifying his power by just two times, he was able to destroy the material of which the armors of the Celestials are made and he was also able to destroy an avatar of Exitar. Such material is capable of emerging unscathed from galactic explosions. Slightly dented the Silver Surfer's forehead with a headbutt. Loki even commented that Thor had greater strength than the Silver Surfer while fighting a serious Norrin. More powerful with the Thermo-Blast, having bested Ego with it), up to Low Multiverse level by overexerting himself ([h**ps://imgur.com/a/WURPP6e (The feat here)]. Thor implied a grow in his own power at the moment and his body suffered in a state of near-death while performing the feat; Thor can reach this much power by overexerting himself in a similar manner, but has not necessarily done so before when putting similar efforts and nor would those mean that he will be at this level, unless proven) and Low Multiverse level, possibly Multiverse level+ with the God Blast (Defeated Zelia, who had twice the strength of Odin)"

==Explanation==
Thor infamously holds back his immense Asgardian strength against most mortal opponents in fear of killing them, due to his benevolent nature:

• Explicitly states he holds back his might so that people don't die with his hits
• Another explicit statement by Captain America (Note: The "third" is likely not literal, can just be a stand-in for any fraction)
• States he had held back his full strength against a character prior
• Explicitly states he wouldn't kill a character even though he knows they wouldn't likely win otherwise
• States he has held back against mortal opponents in fear that his strikes may kill them
• Thor states he had forgotten the true strength of Mjolnir many times, and as such it can be deciphered that he usually uses it at a far lower input

This means that not every character (or thing) that would seem to scale their stats to Thor and vice versa would always do so, the context of the showings and the consistency of in the history of the characters' stats involved need to be evaluated. In practice for Marvel, this means something a bit more counterintuitive; Thor has hundreds of showings across his career, contending at least somewhat evenly against foes whom he should easily one-shot and blitz. While this makes sense thanks to his proven approach for combat, this also includes instances where Thor's life is at stake or people need to be saved, as silly as it sounds, the reason being that should this not be the case, a much greater amount of inconsistencies would arrive with the characters scaling to a Thor at his peak despite their much more abundant evidence to not be in this level. Some attention needs to be given to the in-universe reasons as to why weaker foes would gain an upper hand against or content against Thor, even if they come off as illogical excuses, as they're repeatedly used and normalized the between same or different writers.

In short, Thor has a reason to hold back that ideally makes logical his showings against weaker characters, this occasions however don't always make perfect sense, and care needs to be put to not abuse this latter cases as more meaningful than what they are in order for consistency and accuracy to prevail."

Any minor wording change is ok if we end up communicating the same.

 

[Confluctor]

Seems fine to me

 

[Excellence616]

Agreed

 

[Antvasima]

It seems fine to me as well, except for that a good succinct text explanation for the moving the world engine feat needs to be included.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Agreed

 

[Antvasima]

It seems fine to me as well, except for that a good succinct text explanation for the moving the world engine feat needs to be included.

@Eficiente @Firestorm808 @The_Impress @Confluctor @Armorchompy

 

[Firestorm808]

I see no major issues with it so far.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you, but that is not the type of help that I requested. We preferably need to accurately explain the world engine feat in a brief manner in Thor's VSBW profile page, and possibly add a longer explanation text to a notes section near the bottom of it.

 

[The_Impress]

Meh, I think it's fine as is, scan already explains everything in detail

 

[Antvasima]

I do not think that just saying "The feat here" is sufficient without explaining that he signficiantly moved all of space-time in nine universes via sheer physical strength. Although maybe I misremember the exact context, so a bit different explanation might be preferable.

 

[Confluctor]

2C when overexerting himself: "By pushing his limits to its max, he moved the World Engine, which held the World Tree, which holds 9 space-times"

This should be fine.

 

[SuperAPM]

I remember Herc have a similar feat where he held up all of Olympus for an extended period of time, was he at Base or Skyfather level at the time?

 

[The_Impress]

Meh the issue with the Hercules feat is, it's kinda vague? Like yes he does hold up the SKY, but we kinda never see what that exactly entails, we have to assume it's the entire universe :v

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

I remember Herc have a similar feat where he held up all of Olympus for an extended period of time, was he at Base or Skyfather level at the time?

base

 

[KLOL506]

Meh the issue with the Hercules feat is, it's kinda vague? Like yes he does hold up the SKY, but we kinda never see what that exactly entails, we have to assume it's the entire universe :v

You know where that leads ;3

Funnily enough, I was going to bring up this exact feat. But then I remembered, it's gonna be High 3-A.

EDIT: Confluctor tells me it's inapplicable to Base Herc.

 

[Eficiente]

I can add this if someone unlocks Thor's profile.

Though, I came to think that I'm not sure what makes the feat 2-C. He's affecting this 9 universes and the space between them but how do we know the power needed to do what he did is = to destroy all that at once, with the universes being destroyed as timelines? I mean he's barely moving them, and yet he would be able to destroy it all? Shouldn't this just be a LS feat and Unknown AP?

 

[Antvasima]

2C when overexerting himself: "By pushing his limits to its max, he moved the World Engine, which held the World Tree, which holds 9 space-times"

This should be fine.

I made a few adjustments. Is this fine?

"By pushing his limits to its max, he moved the World Engine, which held the World Tree, which contains nine universal space-time continuums, and significantly affected their timelines."

 

[Antvasima]

I can add this if someone unlocks Thor's profile.

Though, I came to think that I'm not sure what makes the feat 2-C. He's affecting this 9 universes and the space between them but how do we know the power needed to do what he did is = to destroy all that at once, with the universes being destroyed as timelines? I mean he's barely moving them, and yet he would be able to destroy it all? Shouldn't this just be a LS feat and Unknown AP?

I am not sure. We were shown that he affected their time streams in some manner, and if I remember correctly, it was revealed in the later storyline with the lost Asgardians and Seth that it somehow let Odin bypass the predestined Ragnarok event.

 

[Confluctor]

Though, I came to think that I'm not sure what makes the feat 2-C. He's affecting this 9 universes and the space between them but how do we know the power needed to do what he did is = to destroy all that at once with the universes being destroyed as timelines? I mean he's barely moving them, and yet he would be able to destroy it all?

Here, read these. Even if he isn't actively destroying 9 spacetimes, he is still affecting it enough to easily warrant a 2C rating. He is literally reversing Ragnarok. I hope I don't have to explain what that means in comics.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Zxi_u_30cgw/VnqSuU0tuZI/AAAAAAAAgD0/f5IhbldPq0o/s0-Ic42/RCO011.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OGsTb8IQJ64/VnqSunkEOzI/AAAAAAAAgD0/Il5E02vIUdY/s0-Ic42/RCO012.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-tHNIVdUYXIU/VnqSuxDu8ZI/AAAAAAAAgEE/KaHNZ7AZN9Q/s0-Ic42/RCO013.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6xAx8pGxvgI/VnqSvIwKcWI/AAAAAAAAgD0/V9B1w_U9LVA/s0-Ic42/RCO015.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8sB0EJqKLfU/VnqSvLLen3I/AAAAAAAAgD0/RA1AxP6TvDM/s0-Ic42/RCO016.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pKSdqMxwx9w/VnqSvUshDII/AAAAAAAAgD0/Ca4PVgXX-vs/s0-Ic42/RCO017.jpg

Shouldn't this just be a LS feat and Unknown AP?

No. There is no need for Unknown. He is performing a 2C feat, no need to invent new mechanism just to disprove it.

 

[Excellence616]

Meh the issue with the Hercules feat is

Incredible Hercules #121

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out, Confluctor. Would you be willing to create a one or two better Imgur explanation links for this feat please? Preferably including the explanation in a later storyline about how Thor reversed Ragnarok.

 

[Confluctor]

Reversing Ragnarok thing came from the very same issue. Just pages before the actual feat.

 

[Confluctor]

here is the imgur album

 

[The_Impress]

Incredible Hercules #121

...

 

[Antvasima]

here is the imgur album

Thank you. I think that you or somebody else can apply a combination of the following then, with a link to your relevant Imgur album included.

I propose this:

"Attack Potency: Large Island level when holding back (Normally operates under a far lower power level in fear of killing his mortal opponents, [[#Explanation|see the Explanation section bellow]]. Has repeatedly fought a Hulk on this level, Loki and Wrecker, and has contented with the Thing, Dr. Doom, Namor, Super-Skrull and High Evolutionary), Galaxy level when not holding back (It is hinted that he shook the universe as a side effect of the launch of Mjolnir. Created a storm so powerful that its winds reached the Earth from Asgard, causing great destruction. By amplifying his power by just two times, he was able to destroy the material of which the armors of the Celestials are made and he was also able to destroy an avatar of Exitar. Such material is capable of emerging unscathed from galactic explosions. Slightly dented the Silver Surfer's forehead with a headbutt. Loki even commented that Thor had greater strength than the Silver Surfer while fighting a serious Norrin. More powerful with the Thermo-Blast, having bested Ego with it), up to Low Multiverse level by overexerting himself ([h**ps://imgur.com/a/WURPP6e (The feat here)]. Thor implied a grow in his own power at the moment and his body suffered in a state of near-death while performing the feat; Thor can reach this much power by overexerting himself in a similar manner, but has not necessarily done so before when putting similar efforts and nor would those mean that he will be at this level, unless proven) and Low Multiverse level, possibly Multiverse level+ with the God Blast (Defeated Zelia, who had twice the strength of Odin)"

==Explanation==
Thor infamously holds back his immense Asgardian strength against most mortal opponents in fear of killing them, due to his benevolent nature:

• Explicitly states he holds back his might so that people don't die with his hits
• Another explicit statement by Captain America (Note: The "third" is likely not literal, can just be a stand-in for any fraction)
• States he had held back his full strength against a character prior
• Explicitly states he wouldn't kill a character even though he knows they wouldn't likely win otherwise
• States he has held back against mortal opponents in fear that his strikes may kill them
• Thor states he had forgotten the true strength of Mjolnir many times, and as such it can be deciphered that he usually uses it at a far lower input

This means that not every character (or thing) that would seem to scale their stats to Thor and vice versa would always do so, the context of the showings and the consistency of in the history of the characters' stats involved need to be evaluated. In practice for Marvel, this means something a bit more counterintuitive; Thor has hundreds of showings across his career, contending at least somewhat evenly against foes whom he should easily one-shot and blitz. While this makes sense thanks to his proven approach for combat, this also includes instances where Thor's life is at stake or people need to be saved, as silly as it sounds, the reason being that should this not be the case, a much greater amount of inconsistencies would arrive with the characters scaling to a Thor at his peak despite their much more abundant evidence to not be in this level. Some attention needs to be given to the in-universe reasons as to why weaker foes would gain an upper hand against or content against Thor, even if they come off as illogical excuses, as they're repeatedly used and normalized the between same or different writers.

In short, Thor has a reason to hold back that ideally makes logical his showings against weaker characters, this occasions however don't always make perfect sense, and care needs to be put to not abuse this latter cases as more meaningful than what they are in order for consistency and accuracy to prevail."

Any minor wording change is ok if we end up communicating the same.

I made a few adjustments. Is this fine?

"By pushing his limits to its max, he moved the World Engine, which held the World Tree, which contains nine universal space-time continuums, and significantly affected their timelines."

Just make sure to try to apply the changes in a properly structured manner.

I will unlock Thor's page. Tell me here when I should lock it again.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I 100% agree with the changes

Now I gotta ask, is someone else affected by this ?

 

[Confluctor]

is someone else affected by this ?

No, just Thor, and Thor alone.

 

[KLOL506]

I 100% agree with the changes

Now I gotta ask, is someone else affected by this ?

Nope. Only Thor alone will bear such a mighty tier on his shoulders until such a time comes where he actually fights someone who is confirmed verbatim to be able to push Thor hard enough to his absolute limit and kill him that way. Which is to say, MAYBE NEVER.