Thor Lifting Strength Upgrade

[Confluctor]

For me there can only be two: Hercules and Hulk. Especially Hulk since he is physically stronger than Thor at full rage.

Except they don't scale to this one

With everything the Skyfathers, Hulk, Hercules, Atlas, Gorr and Mangog.

Not really. Hulk shouldn't scale here. Why would skyfathers do? Odin, yes, possibly - but even that I am kinda against. But the rest? They have 0 reasons to scale. Gorr scales to his own feats. Mangog... Never forced Thor to reach this far. So, again, no scaling is to be done.

The comparison is apt anyways since it follows the same principal.

except it doesn't

Its still massively above everything else he has and he'd notably struggled with much less.

again, absolute PEAK. Normally, he does, but this is literally a suicide attack where he had to force himself to go beyond his limits and whatnot.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Hercules

Hercules

Hercules scaling to Thor, yes, but that would only apply to God of Gods Hercules key, not his base forms

 

[Excellence616]

Except they don't scale to this one

Hercules with the power of Zeus can scale. As for Hulk since his power levels varies he can scale to Thor at this level.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Hercules with the power of Zeus can scale

when hercules got the power of zeus?

 

[Excellence616]

when hercules got the power of zeus?

During the Chaos War arc

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

During the Chaos War arc

that was not the power of Zeus, it was an external power that Amadeus got through a mystical ritual to become a God and then gave it to hercules.

 

[Excellence616]

that was not the power of Zeus, it was an external power that Amadeus got through a mystical ritual to become a God and then gave it to hercules.

Okay

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

by the way, when was the battle of Warrior madness Thor vs Hulk?

 

[Excellence616]

by the way, when was the battle of Warrior madness Thor vs Hulk?

The Incredible Hulk #440 (1996)

 

[Confluctor]

Hercules scaling to Thor, yes, but that would only apply to God of Gods Hercules key, not his base forms

Elaborate. Why are we scaling skyfathers from Thor? Their scaling is a mess already and this makes it even worse. If they have no feats, don't scale.

Hercules with the power of Zeus can scale.

You didn't explain why

As for Hulk since his power levels varies he can scale to Thor at this level.

This don't make sense. There is no backing from comics.



For the last time, this Thor > Warrior Madness Thor.

 

[Excellence616]

You didn't explain why

That's was a mistake.

Elaborate. Why are we scaling skyfathers from Thor? Their scaling is a mess already and this makes it even worse. If they have no feats, don't scale.


You didn't explain why

This don't make sense. There is no backing from comics.



For the last time, this Thor > Warrior Madness Thor.

If you read The Incredible Hulk #440 (1996), you will understand that Thor himself was afraid of going into WM.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Elaborate. Why are we scaling skyfathers from Thor? Their scaling is a mess already and this makes it even worse. If they have no feats, don't scale

Because it is emphasized that he was the most powerful Skyfather that existed at the end of the Chaos War (so he is above King Rune Thor in his Peak)

Hercules already has his immeasurable feat independently

 

[The_Impress]

Even if it wasn't an outlier, the feat would cause far to many issues to include as some nominal raring since so many people end up scaling to Thor.

I mean Ehren above brings up there was a condition of Thor using a rune to unlock his potential. So don't think it scales unless those conditions are met.

If you read The Incredible Hulk #440 (1996), you will understand that Thor himself was afraid of going into WM.

Irrelevant, this is just wank ngl.

 

[Confluctor]

If you read The Incredible Hulk #440 (1996), you will understand that Thor himself was afraid of going into WM.

I am well aware what WM is. I know you are trying to wank Hulk but this ain't it

Because it is emphasized that he was the most powerful Skyfather that existed at the end of the Chaos War (so he is above King Rune Thor in his Peak)

Hercules already has his immeasurable feat independently

you can be the most OP, doesn't mean their LS is the same? But if he got a much better feat, why not use that

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

you can be the most OP, doesn't mean their LS is the same? But if he got a much better feat, why not use that

Ok

 

[Qawsedf234]

I mean Ehren above brings up there was a condition of Thor using a rune to unlock his potential. So don't think it scales unless those conditions are met.

I guess if it's a Rune based thing for his full strength it'll be closer to Odinforce Thor than generic base Thor.

Though that still has the same issue of not really being useable.

 

[Excellence616]

So should this feat be accepted?

 

[Antvasima]

Getting technical, I think that Thor has recurrent feats that are waaaaaaayyyyyyyy beyond anything that any other of Marvel's supposed herald-level characters have demonstrated, with the possible exception of the Silver Surfer, including this one, supposedly withstanding infinite gravity, and repeatedly holding his own against skyfather-level characters.

However, since Marvel is Marvel, they keep having far less powerful characters consistently match him, including the Hulk and Hercules, as well as have Thor be damaged by or have to block regular bullets, so I am not sure what we should do here exactly, without having to change our scaling so the Hulk, Hercules, and similar strictly scale to their own feats.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I don't think the issue is exclusive to Thor; some versions of Hulk also had alleged cosmic feats such as shaking a multiverse which was deemed an outlier. And he is far weaker normally, but his anger can make his strength approach infinite but never reach it. In Hercules' case, I'll admit, I know little to nothing, but I did hear that him being Thor's equal isn't really due to raw power, but that he happens to be a far superior hand to hand combat fighter + Thor didn't even use Mjolnir in most of their sparring matches. But he lacks the ability to have the more supposed infinite strength feats of Silver Surfer or Thor. Sentry was another character who's arguably superior both SS and Thor, but there are multiple versions + Thor never used his suicide technique or God Blast against him.

In this case, it's basically a suicide attack to perform the Low 2-C/Immeasurable Lifting Strength feat that I don't think it would scale to anyone outside of one specific technique Thor has.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I agree with you DDM

It is also due to how their narrative is in the stories where they are the protagonists, where they can mostly show their best deeds while when they are with someone extra or in a team, the story will be written so that all the other characters are not irrelevant

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if we upgrade Thor to having infinite or immeasurable strength, we would either have to upgrade base level Thor to Low 2-C and not have lots of characters scale to him anymore, or stop considering the Hulk's two greatest feats (causing a multiversal earthquake and destroying a universe) as outliers, and have him and other herald-level characters continue to scale to Thor. Suggestions for solutions would be very appreciated.

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @Ehnkr2beboh @Elizio33 @LordTracer @Confluctor @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Armorchompy @Alonik @The_Impress

What do you think that we should do here?

 

[Confluctor]

Low 2c Thor at peak for base seems fine. I don't see any issues with that.

 

[Transcending]

Tbh I don't see a problem with Thor being Low 2-C at peak either.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I don't think we need to scale his Low 2-C feat to any other heralds; it could look something like this.

High 6-C holding back, 3-C fighting seriously, Low 2-C self sacrifice.

The Low 2-C part also doesn't even scale to his durability since it's proof Netwon's 3rd law would make having universal+ striking strength but no durability to match that a suicide attack.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I don't think we need to scale his Low 2-C feat to any other heralds; it could look something like this.

High 6-C holding back, 3-C fighting seriously, Low 2-C self sacrifice.

The Low 2-C part also doesn't even scale to his durability since it's proof Netwon's 3rd law would make having universal+ striking strength but no durability to match that a suicide attack.

yes, that is literally the context of the feat

 

[Antvasima]

I don't think we need to scale his Low 2-C feat to any other heralds; it could look something like this.

High 6-C holding back, 3-C fighting seriously, Low 2-C self sacrifice.

The Low 2-C part also doesn't even scale to his durability since it's proof Netwon's 3rd law would make having universal+ striking strength but no durability to match that a suicide attack.

I suppose that might work, in lack of better options. Let's wait for further input though.

 

[Qawsedf234]

What do you think that we should do here?

I was under the assumption this is some weird Thor that no one scales to.

I'm not putting any opinion on upgrading Thor to Low 2-C, I didn't like any of the Tier 3 upgrades in the first place.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

I'm fine with Low 2-C Thor at his peak.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I think that base Thor is already listed as being 2-C with his God-Blast, which is literally empowered by Thor's life-force, so there is a bit of a precedent for his immeasurable strength feat, if we count it as similar extreme self-sacrifice exertion.

 

[Firestorm808]

Now that I think about it, the Midgard serpent feat could be an infinite strength feat as well since the serpent is described and likely shown to be infinitely long.

Thor Vol 1 #327, January 1983

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

You mean how the Asgardians are using its length as a bridge to get from Asgard to Earth? (Thor Vol 1 #327 1966)

 

[Confluctor]

The issue with that is... How do you even quantify something like this? Considering how Asgard is meant to be beyond space and time and whatnot most of the times...

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

More Immeasurable LS at peak for Thor obviously.

But seriously, not sure. I just wanted to see if this was what Firestorm was talking about.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, either we can consider Thor's World Engine feat as something of similar nature to his God Blast, or we can consider it as an outlier.

However, if we do the former, we might have to stop considering the Hulk's greatest feats as outliers as well, and one of them was done together with Ironclad of all characters.

 

[Confluctor]

Why outlier? I really don't get the facination with slapping outlier on all high tier comic feats. Especially when context says it's not an outlier.

As for Hulk, should have done that years ago. In context, most of those high tier feats aren't even that high, so no need to slap outliers on it, just needs proper evaluation.

 

[Antvasima]

It is because superhero comic books are so ridiculously inconsistent, so we have tried to find some degree of consistency for the feats, and we have certainly considered a far greater amount of low level limitation feats as outliers than we have the greatest ones.

Can we really claim that a High 3-A Ironclad is a reliable rating?

I am not sure though. Further input from knowledgeable members would be very appreciated.

What do you think, @The_Impress and @Firestorm808 ?

 

[Confluctor]

Inconsistent, yes. but not to the degree you are making it out. See, the issue is, for a lot of outlier feats, we don't even take context into account. I see the word thrown around often when it comes to comic feats, and purposefully ignore context.

And again, there no need for high 3a heralds. Simply because context doesn't make it that high.

 

[Antvasima]

My point is that there are considerably more 9-B or 9-A level feats for plenty of these characters than there are tier 3-C to Low 2-C ones, and the everybody can fight everybody tendency is even more extreme. That makes the task of figuring out the most reliable statistics quite complicated.

 

[Confluctor]

Again, context matters. And once again, this feat only scales to Thor, that's it. And nobody wants everyone to be tier 2, which is why we take context into consideration.

As for everyone who can fight everyone... Context nulls most of these are legit. Not everything is black and white. Hax exists. And also weaknesses exists. Just because most of the time people leave out context, doesn't mean it's an outlier.

 

[Antvasima]

Usually tier 9-As have simply been portrayed as being able to damage tier 3-Cs. You should know this by now.