Marvel: Big Yggdrasil Downgrade, Skyfather Upgrades, and Thor Revisions

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Eh, I disagree. Calling out powerscaling scenarios like Thor vs Hulk in strength or Thor vs Quicksilver in a race seems like a straight reference to the kinds of questions authors like Al Ewing or Stan Lee are constantly asked, which Stan Lee infamously responded to with "the person who'd win in a fight is the person that the writer wants to win."

It is a reference to that (An explicit one imo), but how the "Varies rating" concept is applied on the quote is what made me think on the previously mentioned interpretation:

"But strength is relative to the need for it. If I have to... I can stand on Jupiter. I can stand on anything if the need is great and the cause is just -- as can you. As can we all. We are not measured by strength, nor by raw power. The measure of us is what we do... when the need for action lies with us... and the hammer is in our hand."

There ins't too much sense on Thor talking only about the Heralds if he says that "we all" can make our strength relative to the need for it.

---

Also:

"But strength is relative to the need for it. If I have to... I can stand on Jupiter. I can stand on anything if the need is great and the cause is just"

"We are not measured by strength, nor by raw power. The measure of us is what we do..."

The above parts of the quote pretty much not only implies, but, in my opinion, explicitly shows the idea of a more "heroic" approach of the "vary in power" concept than talks about the existence of a real Varies rating

 

[Luckyfun]

What tier would Marvel cap at if this goes through?

Edit: is everyone scales to yggdrasil?

 

[Eseseso]

What tier would Marvel cap at if this goes through?

Edit: is everyone scales to yggdrasil?

This doesn't change the High 1-A cosmology.

 

[Excellence616]

Bump

 

[ObberGobb]

Bump

I was told to wait for the JM DeMatteis cosmology thread to finish, since both deal with Tier 1 stuff

 

[AndrewBennet]

Bump

 

[ObberGobb]

The JM DeMatteis thread is taking longer than I thought and I don't want this thread to die. To summarize the main points so far:

• Disagreement, mostly leaning negative, on whether Enchantress should scale to Yggdrasil
• Issues of 5-B/3-C/High 3-A to be shelved for a later, dedicated, thread. Personally for now I would prefer dropping everything below High 3-A on Thor's profile, with what to do afterwards just being revisited later.
• Pretty widespread agreement with the main points, but nothing definitive on High 1-B vs. Low 1-A
• Issue of Immortal Thor potentially implying Yggdrasil to scale to House of Ideas, with the idea being that discussion should be held off until then. I strongly disagree with that idea, as we have no reason to believe it was more than an offhand line or that it will be elaborated on to any meaningful extent. I'm also inclined to treat that as an outlier regardless of elaboration, simply due to the vast number of feats showing characters like Thor, Storm, and Odin being able to scale to it.
• Main issue with Low 1-A seems to be that it would theoretically scale these characters above Universal Abstracts. So the main topic I'd like to address is if scaling to infinite realities necessarily scaling above infinite Universal Abstracts.

We don't have to decide on anything yet, I just didn't want the thread to die so I'm summarizing the previous discussion points for whenever this is returned to (hopefully sooner rather than later)

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

The JM DeMatteis thread is taking longer than I thought and I don't want this thread to die. To summarize the main points so far:

As far as I understand the thread that is currently ongoing is just to split the cosmology there is still gonna be another thread to decide how this affect the rest of the marvel cosmology. If you have to wait for that it's gonna take a long long time.

 

[AndrewBennet]

Heralds and skyfather lvl beings beings High 1A makes no sense to me.

 

[Excellence616]

Heralds and skyfather lvl beings beings High 1A makes no sense to me.

Heralds things ain't for this thread

 

[ObberGobb]

The main issue left to be resolved is the Low 1-A scaling. Basically: can a character scale to destroying infinite realities, without scaling above the Eternities of those realities? Is that something that can in any way work in the Marvel Cosmology?