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I see, I also agree with this
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Thor Lifting Strength Upgrade
- Thread starter Excellence616
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So about this...
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- He is affecting the World Tree, which needs proof to be = in power to destroy it all those universes and the space between them.
- What he does turns back time/actions in its universes, but this is an effect on the universes themselves. He's affecting the tree's clock that was overridden by the machine and fighting against the tree & machine, but in doing this he's just affecting the time in those universes, the effect this has on the tree itself has no measure because it comes down to doing Time Manip over 9 universes via strength.
- He is reversing Ragnarok...by turning back time. He's not fighting back the destruction of all via power, he's using power to do hax and turn back time.
"Tampering with Yggdrasil could destroy everything" is good to hear but it's vague, it could be that further tampering could destroy everything, it could be that the current tampering already has what it takes to do that & didn't, or that the current tampering doesn't have what it takes for it but the act of tampering with it is on itself something that could destroy everything depending on how it's done, hence it's bad & shouldn't be done.
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Do you know what Ragnarok is?
He isn't affecting time, you are just making that up now. He is reversing Ragnarok itself, he is literally stopping the destruction of 9 spacetimes by reversing the force of the Ragnarok event, which is trying to wipe out 9 spacetimes. That's not time manipulation, what. He is pushing against the forces of Ragnarok. FORCES, not time.
Read above. Pure headcanon.
Ah, yes, space-time destruction is also time manipulation. Make sense.
No, it's not. You are making it vague for no apparent reason. Yggdrasil contains the 9 worlds, and in this arc, he specifies that he is forcing the World Tree to bring about Ragnarok, thus destroying the 9 worlds.
And again, the feat comes from Yggdrasil itself. Pushing Yggdrasil is 2c by default.
You are making too many assumptions for the sake of assumptions, which virtually come from nowhere. So, elaborate further.
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Fair, tho I thought I was just being direct rather than disrespectful
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"The wheel marks the passage of time, overriding the tree's natural clock." "Then I could smash the covering, turn the wheel backwards, and reverse your actions." He is affecting time. He is pushing this going up against the machine and the tree too, but the struggle is whether or not Thor gets to to manipulate the tree's natural clock on those universes, not 2-C power being thrown at him that he overpowers.
Something of limited size having omnipresence/Something paradoxically being everywhere yet also in a limited space is not indicative of their weight.
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I will get back to this later today. But I don't like why we are overcomplicating a feat just for the sake of it without much in canon evidence or anything like that.
Transcending
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Also in Thor #82 it was stated Thor used strength he had never used before
Wouldn't this be superior to the World Engine feat?
Wouldn't this be superior to the World Engine feat?
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I see that being possible, going for only this page, the context seems to show a "all or nothing" situation with Thor losing friends and family. However, who's that fighting against him ? Pushing Thor beyond the World Engine feat would make someone 2-C for what I understood, so we gotta be careful not only if the situation/context fits, but to who this will scale, if it does
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I believe that's Durok. Also he shouldn't scale as he was knocked out
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Aside from Odinforce Thor and RKT Thor, this feat in question isn't applicable anywhere else. Iirc, in the arc you posted, Thor wasn't in his base form.
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In that feat where he knocks out Durok, Thor was still in his base form
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I see, in that case, I don't think it scales to the other dude whose name I keep forgetting. Tho seeing how he got defeated, idk
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At least the scan shows, again, how Thor can boost his power depending on pressure or emotions. I think we could use it as explanation
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I think the scan means something different than being "the strongest Thor ever" or something. It's simply Thor using a new aspect of his strength, one that doesn't rely on Mjolnir. However, this power is seemingly just compensating for the loss of Mjolnir, and it's not like using this aspect of his power would force him to use his full potential like he did in this feat. So, I guess this would mean the Thor in the WE feat technically isn't at his true maximum potential, but it doesn't mean it's not the strongest base Thor.
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.... I am going to ask again, do you know what Ragnarok is?
He isn't reversing time, he is turning the force of Ragnarok backwards through sheer strength. Once again, he is NOT turning back time, he is fighting against the forces of Ragnarok. FORCE OF RAGNAROK. Ragnarok is the final event for Norse Gods before they are reborn, it's set in motion by higher dimensional Gods - the Shadow people. The old man? He convinced the tree that Ragnarok was now thanks to the World Engine. So, the tree started its cycle of destruction. Thor had to manually reverse the forces of Ragnarok back into its earlier state. Not time, forces. He was fighting against the ducking force of Ragnarok itself, pushed it backward to its origin, essentially convincing the tree that either Ragnarok has passed, or it won't happen anytime soon.
But even if its so-called time manipulation, he is literally reversing time for 9 spacetimes with pure pure strength.
Also, you can't reverse Ragnarok with time.
Elaborate
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You lack proof that this force would manifest itself as 2-C power to be overpowered when trying to turn back time. Those Who Sit Above in Shadow cause Ragnarok as some other future story has it be, that doesn't mean that if someone tries to turn back time they will put power equal to what the whole event will cause up against Thor. Thor is turning back time as I proven before in very explicitly; the wheel controls the tree's natural clock/actions going forward/time, by turning back the wheel, Thor turns back time, there is no denying of this no matter how you say it over and over. Same with this force of Ragnarok, yes Thor is struggling against the tree and the machine because the story made it so that this takes high effort, but that effort could be anything and has no reason to be the same needed to destroy those 9 universes, because why would that much power pop up when trying to reverse time.
9 universes, time goes back from the present backwards, not at all points in time in the timelines. And it's hax for the machine to be built this way.
You may prove it, because the story says otherwise, Thor turned back the natural clock of the tree to save the day.
I can imagine that you feel like I'm wrong but have no reason to back it up, maybe this is in part what you meant by "overcomplicating a feat just for the sake of it". If you make a CRT to edit the Omnipresence page for its users with a limited body to always have a weight equal to what they're omnipresent over then that's going to be rejected, that should be something very basic rather than overcomplicated.
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Will comment when I can. But I feel as though we are just repeating the same crap, just worded differently each time. And you are trying to overcomplicate a feat for no reason other than.... Just because you want to be contrarian for the sake of it.
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I also agree with Confluctor
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Considering the face that Thor is pushing against the force of Ragnarok, why would that NOT be 2C? And also, he is literally pushing against the tree itself, WHICH holds at least 9 different space times.
The burden of proof is on you since you are going around, creating new stuff out of nowhere just for the sake of it.
Do you know how many times Ragnarok has occurred? And despite literally doing everything in their power, no one has been able to ever stop this cycle until Thor had to face the Shadow bozos.
Mate, you proved nothing. Again, read the entire arc. There is no time bs happening. He is literally pushing effing 9 spacetimes.
.................................................Did you even read the arc? Or at least the scans posted?
Same as you. You are repeating time manipulation based on... idk what.
What the **** does that even mean??????????????????
And what the **** does this mean????????????????
and this too lmao
What are you even trying to say here? I am genuinely lost. I feel like words are thrown around but the meaning is just missing.
BY pushing against the very force of Ragnarok and the might of tree itself.
I have every reason to back it up. You are inventing some random mechanics just to disqualify a feat. Let me simplify it for the last time;
The World Tree, yes? It's literally at least 9 SPACETIMES. Yes? Thor is pushing against the very might of the tree. It's literally so simple.
I don't have to, and I don't really care. The feat isn't getting disqualified because you invented some new mechanics out of nowhere. He is literally pushing an omnipresent tree across 9 spacetimes to stop it from causing Ragnarok.
In the scans above, the dude explicitly mentions the might of the tree and how it wants to bring about a new Ragnarok. How hard is that to understand?
Also, you are kinda contradicting yourself too. So, I have no idea what to take it as.
In any case, I would like to see some more input from the community. I personally would rather not entertain over-complication of a simple feat like this - I got better things to be doing than going in circles and writing the same things over and over again.
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@Emirp sumitpo @The_Impress @Firestorm808 @Colonel_Krukov @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus Your help here would be appreciated.
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Well, I personally agree with Confluctor, but think that he should try to be more polite to other staff members (and regular members of course).
@Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @LordTracer @Planck69 @Armorchompy @The_Impress
Would you be willing to help out here please?
@Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @LordTracer @Planck69 @Armorchompy @The_Impress
Would you be willing to help out here please?
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He's being as polite and straightforward as it gets tho, it's really Eficiente that is making this more complicated than it needs to be IMHO.
I tagged Firestorm and Impress already, not sure if LordTracer is remotely interested in Marvel/DC Herald affairs based on my conversations with him, and Planck hasn't been active as of late.
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I do prefer street levelers, but I can help out, it’s fine.
I agree with Confluctor on this.
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Damnit I keep forgetting, aight, I'll remember this part.
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I was referring to this:
Yes, but your post did not show up for me until I had posted my own.
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I mean, given the arguments Eficiente gave, I'd be baffled just as similarly like most other people here are, in fact, I was going to type up responses to Eficiente tackling the same topics myself, but I decided to best leave it to Confluctor.
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Ant, there's a difference between making "disrespectful" responses (Which isn't report worthy BTW), and another to call people as lacking reading comprehension, the latter of which Eficiente has done most recently in a Final Fantasy thread here. I'd hardly call that helpful. But that'd be derailing, so I'll keep it at that.
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I agree with Confluctor on this as well
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It honestly didn't annoy me until this. Even in that thread I was being judged from the position of "You did bad in this other FF thread", I couldn't defend myself about that there and can't now, because this thread's not about it. You can't just normalize a bias against a user like this, can't you not foresee what will happen if you do that? This is not a site for reasonable adults only. Confluctor's comments were needlessly unstable, which I don't mind, but don't normalize it or let alone justify it, unstable comments happen but they're what one would not do if they had more time or more peace to think about it. This comes off as resentful and some people will learn that take by justifying unfair biases with whoever disagreed with them more than once and seems standard to bully. To clarify, that's not to point fingers on any specific users, my logic's as simple as "Even young teenagers can take part on the wiki->You don't normalize or justify wrong behavior with them because that's stupid".
As wrong as you may see my stand on Thor's feat, that's something I genuinely believe.
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Right, let me get this out of the way; I don't mean disrespect towards anyone here. Doesn't matter who it is or what we disagree on, but I don't mean to disrespect anyone. What am I going to gain from it?
Were my words earlier harsh? Perhaps - tho to me, it seems normal. Pretty much how I have my convos irl most of the time. But pretty sure anyone would have had the same reaction to it.
Anyway, we should probably move on and focus on what matters here ultimately
Were my words earlier harsh? Perhaps - tho to me, it seems normal. Pretty much how I have my convos irl most of the time. But pretty sure anyone would have had the same reaction to it.
Anyway, we should probably move on and focus on what matters here ultimately
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Yes, but I agree with Eficiente's comments regarding that we definitely shouldn't normalise rudeness and direspectful behaviour towards specific members.
Anyway, I think that the changes to Thor's page have probably been sufficiently accepted now. Is somebody here willing and able to properly apply them? Please remember to sufficiently explain the circumstances for the feat, so our visitors understand why Thor received such a high tier.
Anyway, I think that the changes to Thor's page have probably been sufficiently accepted now. Is somebody here willing and able to properly apply them? Please remember to sufficiently explain the circumstances for the feat, so our visitors understand why Thor received such a high tier.
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I checked out, what's the current debate about
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