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Marvel Comics: Combat Speed Upgrade For Some Characters

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Excellence616

Excellence616

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Elektra logically shouldn't be able to do anything whatsoever to bother Tiger Shark. He has trillions of times more raw power, as he is almost comparable to Namor, whereas Elektra's power level is comparable to Daredevil, so this is just more of Marvel's usual "everybody can fight everybody" nonsense scaling.
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
Elektra should scale.

Elektra (2014), she defeated Tiger Shark, albeit off screen, and without killing him. Tiger Shark is then brought back, and amped, and still defeated, with their new abilities explicitly not mattering a lick.
Click to expand...
Won't we consider this an outlier? 9-A beating a 5-B. And also this would make the likes of Daredevil, Punisher, Spiderman and Co. Relativistic+ which in turn makes almost every character Relativistic+
Suigetsuhyugs said:
If this and my CRT get approved then Carol will scale too since she is scaling from Rogue, Tiger Shark and Ronan.
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Yep
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
Elektra should scale.

Elektra (2014), she defeated Tiger Shark, albeit off screen, and without killing him. Tiger Shark is then brought back, and amped, and still defeated, with their new abilities explicitly not mattering a lick.
Click to expand...
Problem is; if we upgrade Elektra, we will eventually have to upgrade all street level characters since everyone, technically, scales to her Hypersonic feat. She's the only one with the hypersonic feat after all.

And we already discussed that everyone being Massively Hypersonic+ is not good, now imagine Relativistic+.
 
Antvasima said:
Elektra logically shouldn't be able to do anything whatsoever to bother Tiger Shark. He has trillions of times more raw power, as he is almost comparable to Namor, whereas Elektra's power level is comparable to Daredevil, so this is just more of Marvel's usual "everybody can fight everybody" nonsense scaling.
Click to expand...
Excellence616 said:
Won't we consider this an outlier? 9-A beating a 5-B. And also this would make the likes of Daredevil, Punisher, Spiderman and Co. Relativistic+ which in turn makes almost every character Relativistic+
Click to expand...

The second fight explicitly explains how it is that she manages to defeat him, that being a biometric shock to the snout.

This also wouldn’t be an outlier regardless. The Incredible Hulk (2011) #601, Elektra stabs Red-She Hulk. If that isn’t enough, Thunderbolts (2013) #28, Elektra stabs Red Hulk, with him even going as far as to question the material of her Sai, Adamanitum being his first guess. Elektra herself doesn’t need to be 5-B, in the same vein that Wolverine’s claws scale above himself.
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
The second fight explicitly explains how it is that she manages to defeat him, that being a biometric shock to the snout.
Click to expand...
Well, it is better than a Karate chop, but is nevertheless stupid.
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
This also wouldn’t be an outlier regardless. The Incredible Hulk (2011) #601, Elektra stabs Red-She Hulk. If that isn’t enough, Thunderbolts (2013) #28, Elektra stabs Red Hulk, with him even going as far as to question the material of her Sai, Adamanitum being his first guess. Elektra herself doesn’t need to be 5-B, in the same vein that Wolverine’s claws scale above himself.
Click to expand...
It is a regular "rule of cool"/writer favouritism outlier, much like for Wolverine, given that it shouldn't matter if they have Adamantium blades if they are not strong enough to generate the required force and energy to pierce through characters with planet- to universe-busting raw power.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, it is better than a Karate chop, but is nevertheless stupid.
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It wasn’t a karate chop, and I don’t quite see how. They explain pretty logically how and why she was able to do that.


Antvasima said:
It is a regular "rule of cool"/writer favouritism outlier, much like for Wolverine, given that it shouldn't matter if they have Adamantium blades if they are not strong enough to generate the required force and energy to pierce through characters with planet- to universe-busting raw power.
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You would need to prove that assertion, considering the fact that Red Hulk is still confident in killing her and proceeds to tell if she continues to attack him he will, in-fact, kill her.

ProfectusInfinity said:
But is there a consistent narrative justification for such higher speed akin to Wolverine's higher AP via adamantium?
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According to his profile, there is.


Tomfer said:
The only two feats we got is Elektra's hypersonic and Moon Knight's High Hypersonic.
Click to expand...
This is already extremely odd because an amped Daredevil via the Fist Magic in Zdarsky’s run merely 1-2 years ago has him explicitly moving and hitter harder than he ever had, just to keep up with a casual Spider-Man who doesn’t even want to fight him, and then that Daredevil (albeit wanting to die and iirc injured) calls Elektra (who isn’t trying to kill) fast, in fact, the fastest. So the idea that these characters are somehow below a weaker Elektra just doesn’t make sense.
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
This is already extremely odd because an amped Daredevil via the Fist Magic in Zdarsky’s run merely 1-2 years ago has him explicitly moving and hitter harder than he ever had, just to keep up with a casual Spider-Man who doesn’t even want to fight him, and then that Daredevil (albeit wanting to die and iirc injured) calls Elektra (who isn’t trying to kill) fast, in fact, the fastest. So the idea that these characters are somehow below a weaker Elektra just doesn’t make sense.
Click to expand...
The current case of street level speed is already extremely odd since is pratically;

Spider-heroes > Elektra (The one with the Hypersonic feat) >= Daredevil = Everyone else.

And all of that with single a single feat. So it's a confusing situation all together because all of the profiles (DD included) do NOT say they scale to that Elektra feat.
 
Tomfer said:
Spider-heroes > Elektra (The one with the Hypersonic feat) >= Daredevil = Everyone else.

And all of that with single a single feat. So it's a confusing situation all together because all of the profiles (DD included) do NOT say they scale to that Elektra feat.
Click to expand...
Daredevil being = to them is also rather odd, Wolverine considers him “fast as hell”, he danced circles around Captain America (and his degraded form is considered everyone’s best, to Cap), fought on par with Shuri, and more.
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
The second fight explicitly explains how it is that she manages to defeat him, that being a biometric shock to the snout.

This also wouldn’t be an outlier regardless. The Incredible Hulk (2011) #601, Elektra stabs Red-She Hulk. If that isn’t enough, Thunderbolts (2013) #28, Elektra stabs Red Hulk, with him even going as far as to question the material of her Sai, Adamanitum being his first guess. Elektra herself doesn’t need to be 5-B, in the same vein that Wolverine’s claws scale above himself.
Click to expand...
As long as it isn't Adamantium blades then she won't get any upgrades. The only blades that can harm 5-B and above are Adamantium, Vibranium, Uru, or any blades infused with Magic.
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
They explain pretty logically how and why she was able to do that.
Click to expand...
How was she able to do that? I didn't see any explanation there.

Either way, we can't upgrade her since Her = All Hypersonic Characters.

There should be this gap in Stats btw Street and Top Tiers character in Marvel. As reactive as Wolverine, Spiderman or even Daredevil are. These characters have danced around the likes of Hulk and other characters on multiple occasions but we can't upgrade them to their speed. It is about fighting someone above your regular level except stated that the character is slower than the street character.
 
Excellence616 said:
Very Simple

These characters in this sandbox are rated Hypersonic+ or Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed scaling from either Namor (Marvel Comics), The Thing (Marvel Comics), Hulk (Marvel Comics), or Doctor Doom who were upgraded to Relativistic+ in this thread.

So the Hypersonic+ or Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed characters should be upgraded to Relativistic+

Those affected by the upgrade
Click to expand...
This seems fine to me.

Neutral in regards to Elektra’s blades.
 
Well, I personally do not mind if we give her extremely high attack potency with adamantium blades. I am just saying that this particular trope does not make any logical sense.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, I personally do not mind if we give her extremely high attack potency with adamantium blades. I am just saying that this particular trope does not make any logical sense.
Click to expand...
It was never confirmed wether it's adamantium. Red Hulk only asked of which she didn't give an answer.
 
Well, without extremely bad writing, Adamantium, Uru, or similar is required to harm the Hulk.
 
Namor, The Thing, Hulk, Doctor Doom and all those other characters are not faster than the rest of the characters at Hypersonic+ or Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed, they fight each other all the time pretty evenly. They're still subject to the anti-feats each other have, I fear that the Reed feat may be an outlier. Not against it myself (due to lack of memory), but we should call the people who worked in the last speed thread for these characters, whomever they might be.

The other feats Eseseso posted are aim-dodging and with the lasers not being said to move at the speed of light.
 
Eficiente said:
Namor, The Thing, Hulk, Doctor Doom and all those other characters are not faster than the rest of the characters at Hypersonic+ or Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed, they fight each other all the time pretty evenly. They're still subject to the anti-feats each other have, I fear that the Reed feat may be an outlier.
Click to expand...
Hypersonic+ or Massively Hypersonic+ characters fighting evenly Namor and Co would be an outlier for the hypersonic guys and anti feats for Namor and Co.
 
Eficiente said:
Namor, The Thing, Hulk, Doctor Doom and all those other characters are not faster than the rest of the characters at Hypersonic+ or Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed, they fight each other all the time pretty evenly. They're still subject to the anti-feats each other have, I fear that the Reed feat may be an outlier. Not against it myself (due to lack of memory), but we should call the people who worked in the last speed thread for these characters, whomever they might be.

The other feats Eseseso posted are aim-dodging and with the lasers not being said to move at the speed of light.
Click to expand...
I think that's very clearly not true, I can't speak for all but the ones I'm most "knowledged" on have consistently been shown as actually having super speed consider them all equal to the "Super soldiers" level it's ridiculous offensive even. Also wasn't this all discussed in the previous thread that upgraded the characters to relativistic+? Don't see a point in talking about it in this thread too.
And is this the kind of consistency you want?
They are basically all scaling to each other while also scaling with different tiers.
We are not talking about bullet timers here
 
Eficiente said:
Namor, The Thing, Hulk, Doctor Doom and all those other characters are not faster than the rest of the characters at Hypersonic+ or Massively Hypersonic+ combat speed, they fight each other all the time pretty evenly.
Click to expand...
I cannot talk about the Massively Hypersonic folks, but I can tell that all the fights involving the Hypersonic guys are mostly outliners and them fighting characters like the Hulk are kinda bull.

Excellence616 said:
As long as it isn't Adamantium blades then she won't get any upgrades. The only blades that can harm 5-B and above are Adamantium, Vibranium, Uru, or any blades infused with Magic.
Click to expand...
Personally, I don't think adamantium weaponry should even give you a new tier. Adamantium weapons should be just a really good dura neg IMO.
 
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