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The Exdeath and Enuo profiles say that they are both omnipresent in the void. I've looked everywhere and found 0 evidence of this. In his fight, he gets engulfed by the Void, and then comes back as Neo Exdeath. Enuo was stated to be engulfed by the Void. I really have no idea how the hell you guys got "becomes omnipresent and one with the entire void. A clone of him in FFXIV looks like this. I don't know about you, but that doesn't really look like he's literally one with the entire Void at all. He just got control over it.

Second of all, characters like FFXIV protagonist have infinite speed due to scaling above Exdeath since he's "omnipresent" across infinite universes, but for whatever reason, Dissidia characters who we scale above FFV Neo Exdeath don't have infinite speed.

Dissidia characters also randomly have immeasurable lifting strength because they are apparently more powerful than Exdeath and Enuo, even though there's no evidence they scale above them in lifting strength

There's probably evidence that proves me wrong that I simply haven't seen, so if there is any, just post it here

Speed
We also rate a lot of characters as MFTL+ because of the FFIV Meteor spell, where meteors are summoned from outer space. Don't remember a single character who even reacts to it, in fact Golbez gets hits by it and loses against Tellah. And where the hell does it say these meteors are from nearby stars? Why assume they are just because you see it twinkle in the sky? Sounds really arbitrary

Hax

A lot of characters gain pain manipulation and resistance to it based on this thunder spell feat of attacking the nerves. This isn't anything special, normal lightning can do this too.

Sub-atomic matter manipulation is given because the Fire spells heat up the electrons, increasing their velocity. This is just how heat works in general. I don't think everyone in fiction who has survived fire or heat will get resistance to subatomic level matter manipulation.

The same applies to the Ice Spell's matter manipulation, this is just how ice works

Agreements:

FFXIV WoL Downgrade to MFTL+ : Shmooply, Zeta, AKM sama, DDM, Eficiente, Matthew
Removal of Omnipresence and Immeasurable Lifting Strength: Eficiente, AKM sama, vietthai, Matthew

Disagreements:

Removal of Omnipresence and Immeasurable Lifting Strength: Theglassman, Zeta
 
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This is way too early on my end, so I'll only address the Dissidia stuff for now.

Dissidia Cast don't have Infinite Speed due to following the scaling of the V cast who are also only At least MFTL+ and are all comparable to one another, including again the V cast, who were able to push back Neo Exdeath and Enuo, hence their Lifting Strength, so it's from upscaling from them.

That being said, Neo Exdeath in Dissidia and 012 is just a costume unlike other Chaos Warriors who transform like Jecht or Ultimecia, so that doesn't contradict much.
 
?

This is way too early on my end, so I'll only address the Dissidia stuff for now.

Dissidia Cast don't have Infinite Speed due to following the scaling of the V cast who are also only At least MFTL+ and are all comparable to one another, including again the V cast, who were able to push back Neo Exdeath and Enuo, hence their Lifting Strength, so it's from upscaling from them.

That being said, Neo Exdeath in Dissidia and 012 is just a costume unlike other Chaos Warriors who transform like Jecht or Ultimecia, so that doesn't contradict much.
Ok, I removed that costume bit, and can you show me the FFV cast pushing back Enuo and Neo Exdeath and every single other Dissidia character scaling to them in lifting?
 
The Exdeath and Enuo profiles say that they are both omnipresent in the void. I've looked everywhere and found 0 evidence of this. In his fight, he gets engulfed by the Void, and then comes back as Neo Exdeath. Enuo was stated to be engulfed by the Void. I really have no idea how the hell you guys got "becomes omnipresent and one with the entire void. A clone of him in FFXIV looks like this. I don't know about you, but that doesn't really look like he's literally one with the entire Void at all. He just got control over it.
Clear as water, I agree.
Second of all, characters like FFXIV protagonist have infinite speed due to scaling above Exdeath since he's "omnipresent" across infinite universes, but for whatever reason, Dissidia characters who we scale above FFV Neo Exdeath don't have infinite speed.
Being ommipresent is not even a speed, you can have that and then move at any random speed.
Dissidia characters also randomly have immeasurable lifting strength because they are apparently more powerful than Exdeath and Enuo, even though there's no evidence they scale above them in lifting strength

There's probably evidence that proves me wrong that I simply haven't seen, so if there is any, just post it here
We will see, as it is you're correct.
Speed
We also rate a lot of characters as MFTL+ because of the FFIV Meteor spell, where meteors are summoned from outer space. Don't remember a single character who even reacts to it, in fact Golbez gets hits by it and loses against Tellah. And where the hell does it say these meteors are from nearby stars? Why assume they are just because you see it twinkle in the sky? Sounds really arbitrary
It would go as attack speed if it was legit, which doesn't seem to be the case.
Hax

A lot of characters gain pain manipulation and resistance to it based on this thunder spell feat of attacking the nerves. This isn't anything special, normal lightning can do this too.

Sub-atomic matter manipulation is given because the Fire spells heat up the electrons, increasing their velocity. This is just how heat works in general. I don't think everyone in fiction who has survived fire or heat will get resistance to subatomic level matter manipulation.

The same applies to the Ice Spell's matter manipulation, this is just how ice works
Well, rather than remove those from the profiles I would first have the Electricity, Fire and Ice Manip pages say this to keep everyone always kept up about it.
This is such a vague, unprofessional thing to say. Even if everything here was wrong (which is not the case), you would be needlessly rude and unwelcoming. Limit yourself to not do this in the future.
 
Just passing by, aside from Hax which i know nothing about, the arguments about rating like infinite speed and lifting strength is legit and those rating should be downgrade or remove. Omnipresent is just a state of being, not a speed
Also i character like Exdeath and Enuo immeasurable lifting strength literally have no scan, and the explaination "become on with the Void" i think is not enough for Immeasurable lifting strength
 
I agree that trading blows with Omnipresent beings does not grant Infinite nor Immeasurable speed, nor dodging attacks with omnipresent area of effects. So too my knowledge, no one should be Infinite or Immeasurable. However, there are plenty of Massively FTL+ characters.
 
Alright let’s get this out of the way.

Neo Exdeath literally becomes one with the Void itself given he tries to control it but fails and is a being that’s hellbent on erasing everything like the Void itself does. Even Enuo compares his own existence to the void itself after he was engulfed so he’s literally a part of it, which makes sense given his death causes a collapse in the Void which wouldn’t be possible if he wasn’t one with it.

don’t really know much on FF14 stuff so I don’t really care what happens here.

Fighting back an omnipresent being in general which exists across numerous timelines would qualify for immeasurable lifting strength. Plenty of characters have the same rating for very similar reasons here.

Golbez never lost against Tellah, did you pay any attention to that scene? He’s still fine and almost killed Cecil but left. Also literally every FF4 Character can react to the attack and dodge meteor, therefore it scales.

I don’t see how they’re similar when IRL lightning mentions some symptoms like paralysis and shit while normal FF lightning just specifically targets the nerves and destroys them.

you are literally accelerating and decelerating their own electrons in their own matter for the spell to happen. That’s not something you can normally do for fire and ice against an individual.
 
Neo Exdeath literally becomes one with the Void itself given he tries to control it but fails and is a being that’s hellbent on erasing everything like the Void itself does. Even Enuo compares his own existence to the void itself after he was engulfed so he’s literally a part of it, which makes sense given his death causes a collapse in the Void which wouldn’t be possible if he wasn’t one with it.
That first sentence doesn't prove anything, the second has no reason to start with an "even". The comparison can just be that, a comparison, that makes perfect sense with the void being able to do that and him being hellbent on doing it. The collapse more reasonably shows a degree of control over it, not being omnipresent across it, the former even is a common trope for beings who control some weird dimension like it. If I fail to control the ocean and fall into it and then gain power from it and my defeat destroys it all then I got some control over the ocean that allowed that to happen, I didn't became one with it, replace "ocean" with any word and the same keeps on being the most reasonable, most logical take.
 
Thank you for being so nitpicky on my sentence structure, totally a great way to tackle my points and not just trying to pry for any minor and irrelevant faults whatsoever. Also massive false equivalency given the Void literally consumes you and you literally become one with it given that's what happened to Enuo, this isn't just you getting the powers, you literally have your entire existence be connected to it. This happens with both Exdeath and Enuo.
 
That first sentence doesn't prove anything, the second has no reason to start with an "even". The comparison can just be that, a comparison, that makes perfect sense with the void being able to do that and him being hellbent on doing it. The collapse more reasonably shows a degree of control over it, not being omnipresent across it, the former even is a common trope for beings who control some weird dimension like it. If I fail to control the ocean and fall into it and then gain power from it and my defeat destroys it all then I got some control over the ocean that allowed that to happen, I didn't became one with it, replace "ocean" with any word and the same keeps on being the most reasonable, most logical take.
This makes no sense. If you were to only be able to have some of control it whatever still there will remain, Enuo's consciousness is with the Void itself and thus is apart of it, he's not just controlling it, an Ocean isn't a fair shake given that nothing would happen to a person if they fell in besides.....drowning. The Void unless you have resistance, erases you and more
 
Thank you for being so nitpicky on my sentence structure, totally a great way to tackle my points and not just trying to pry for any minor and irrelevant faults whatsoever. Also massive false equivalency given the Void literally consumes you and you literally become one with it given that's what happened to Enuo, this isn't just you getting the powers, you literally have your entire existence be connected to it. This happens with both Exdeath and Enuo.
I put my standards; you didn't give any reasons that mattered yet and so the even had no reason to be, it seemed manipulative to buy into he idea of it, it's not a way to word things I would like others to imitate. Yes it is nitpicky but consider how many times people on the Vs debates community go over points that don't matter, they know they don't matter if asked, and use them anyway to convince others about something just to have more to say about it, it's quite the practice, and invites some to fall for it and lower their standards.

If it happened to another character when consumed then we can say it happened Exdeath when consumed too, as the main evidence, and then how it collapsed in his defeat as secondary (as it doesn't work in a vacuum). Those should have been the reasons.
 
what’s manipulative about saying stuff that happened in the game? Who the hell are you to judge what matters and what doesn’t? You’re the same guy who’s comparing the Void to an ocean as that’s remotely a good comparison.

ok so you do agree with me that he’s one with the void, so that means them being omnipresent in the void is legit by your argumentation.
 
Calm, the OP pointed out that there was no real evidence for Neo Exdeath being omnipresent, your reply to that was
  1. Neo Exdeath tries to control it but fails, which tells us nothing and therefore doesn't matter.
  2. He's hellbent on erasing everything like the Void itself does, which tells us nothing and therefore doesn't matter. Nor does it magically matter addedto what was said before.
It comes out of nowhere for you to say that it happened in the game. You didn't have a reason yet to justify what you were going for, you were saying things you didn't need to that anyone who doesn't know any better will believe is part of the reason as to why Neo Exdeath is omnipresent. I judge that those things don't matter because I have the common sense to know that any random person reading about how tried to control it but failed and wants to erase everything isn't and shouldn't get an idea of Neo Exdeath being omnipresent based on that.

With less drama you wouldn't take like that that I agreed with you on a later comment, it would just be something that happened and that's it, I don't have some constant argumentation against it that agreeing with you conflicts with.
 
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For those who gave kudos to Theglassman's last comments, please have better reading comprehension. I was nitpicky on something, I justified it and said that something "seemed manipulative" because it was not needed to be said while being vaguely related to the topic it aimed, that's not "Theglassman, you are being manipulative", that's "If any person does this they may or may not be manipulative while they may or may not know it themselves" because that's how the practice works. My point isn't that he was trying to be manipulative, but why I had to be nitpicky over that 1 thing. Nor does it matter that this stuff "happened in the game" because that's unrelated.
 
And I provided said evidence, also no I’m referring to Normal Exdeath trying to control the void, not Neo Exdeath who just is part of the Void as opposed to controlling it.

The thing that happens in the game apparently didn’t happen in the game? Yeah that sounds about right. No you have no say to dictate what matters and what doesn’t matter as it’s made abundantly clear in the last CRT you don’t know the series to the same extent that we do. So tone it down with the superiority complex and actually give an argument that isn’t the most random False Equivalency ever if you wanna judge the arguments.

Also tone it down again with insulting people who kudos points, if you’re going to keep this up I will report you for being condescending to others as this isn’t the first time you’ve done this.
 
The thing that happens in the game apparently didn’t happen in the game? Yeah that sounds about right. No you have no say to dictate what matters and what doesn’t matter as it’s made abundantly clear in the last CRT you don’t know the series to the same extent that we do. So tone it down with the superiority complex and actually give an argument that isn’t the most random False Equivalency ever if you wanna judge the arguments.

Also tone it down again with insulting people who kudos points, if you’re going to keep this up I will report you for being condescending to others as this isn’t the first time you’ve done this.
Everyone has a right to comment and have a say/opinion on whatever thread they choose regardless of how much knowledge they have on the series. What matters is evaluating their argument and if it doesn't hold up, calmly explain to them why their argument doesn't work.

Can we comment only about the OP please.
 
And Eficiente has barely evaluated my argument and made a random comparison to an Ocean that has nothing in common with the Void only to agree with me when he saw my arguments in the end. Also we have addressed the OP’s points, he hasn’t responded yet.
 
Calm, the OP pointed out that there was no real evidence for Neo Exdeath being omnipresent, your reply to that was
  1. Neo Exdeath tries to control it but fails, which tells us nothing and therefore doesn't matter.
  2. He's hellbent on erasing everything like the Void itself does, which tells us nothing and therefore doesn't matter. Nor does it magically matter addedto what was said before.
It comes out of nowhere for you to say that it happened in the game. You didn't have a reason yet to justify what you were going for, you were saying things you didn't need to that anyone who doesn't know any better will believe is part of the reason as to why Neo Exdeath is omnipresent. I judge that those things don't matter because I have the common sense to know that any random person reading about how tried to control it but failed and wants to erase everything isn't and shouldn't get an idea of Neo Exdeath being omnipresent based on that.
He fails due to being beaten by the Warriors of Lights, after the void engulfs him he becomes Neo Exdeath. And again there's Enuo, who despite also getting engulfed still has the power of the void, as his essence is one with it.
 
And Eficiente has barely evaluated my argument and made a random comparison to an Ocean that has nothing in common with the Void only to agree with me when he saw my arguments in the end. Also we have addressed the OP’s points, he hasn’t responded yet.
Not everyone can respond quickly. This thread wasn't even made weeks or days ago, just wait for them to reply.
 
Hax

A lot of characters gain pain manipulation and resistance to it based on this thunder spell feat of attacking the nerves. This isn't anything special, normal lightning can do this too.

Sub-atomic matter manipulation is given because the Fire spells heat up the electrons, increasing their velocity. This is just how heat works in general. I don't think everyone in fiction who has survived fire or heat will get resistance to subatomic level matter manipulation.

The same applies to the Ice Spell's matter manipulation, this is just how ice works
Since the FF 'Verse specifies their spells do so, why not note that it's confirmed their Magic does this? Not all Elemental magic does the same things, so why should we assume all Elemental Magic DOES do this, & resultingly not note it for Final Fantasy?
I think it should be noted their spells are confirmed to do this, as opposed to defying reality by not doing so as some magic might, I assume.
At the least, it feels better to have that confirmation clear on profiles than not.
 
Alright let’s get this out of the way.

Neo Exdeath literally becomes one with the Void itself given he tries to control it but fails and is a being that’s hellbent on erasing everything like the Void itself does. Even Enuo compares his own existence to the void itself after he was engulfed so he’s literally a part of it, which makes sense given his death causes a collapse in the Void which wouldn’t be possible if he wasn’t one with it.

don’t really know much on FF14 stuff so I don’t really care what happens here.

Fighting back an omnipresent being in general which exists across numerous timelines would qualify for immeasurable lifting strength. Plenty of characters have the same rating for very similar reasons here.

Golbez never lost against Tellah, did you pay any attention to that scene? He’s still fine and almost killed Cecil but left. Also literally every FF4 Character can react to the attack and dodge meteor, therefore it scales.

I don’t see how they’re similar when IRL lightning mentions some symptoms like paralysis and shit while normal FF lightning just specifically targets the nerves and destroys them.

you are literally accelerating and decelerating their own electrons in their own matter for the spell to happen. That’s not something you can normally do for fire and ice against an individual.
Enuo doesn't say he becomes the Void anywhere here, I have no idea what you are talking about. Is there some other line of Enuo dialogue I'm missing? This doesn't look like his death collapsing the whole void. It is very possible for someone to simply cause a bunch of explosions when they die without being omnipresent in the place they are in. Or maybe collapsing a portion of it since the party was sent out. The Void is also obviously still a thing after this, as it still exists in other games like Dissidia. You can say the Void regenerated, but that would also take more assumptions than assuming he just didn't become one with it (which again, isn't even stated)

Also, I said "And where the hell does it say these meteors are from nearby stars? Why assume they are just because you see it twinkle in the sky? Sounds really arbitrary"

Did I not just post a link to articles explaining that lightning in general always attacks the nerves?
 
So, still no justification for Immeasurable speed??. And since when fighting someone Omnipresent across timeline = immeasurable lifting strength??. Don't throw other verse here as a reason, why all revision i visited always have that verse have something so this verse should also have that thing as a frontal argument???
 
Just a heads up, the only downgrades I agreed with is removal of Infinite/Immeasurable speeds via trading blows with omnipresent. I haven't checked for other reasons for said speed ratings, and I never had any objections against omnipresent ratings nor Immeasurable lifting strength and what not. Also, I agree with LordGriffin regarding the everyone having rights to make their opinions heard.
 
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what’s manipulative about saying stuff that happened in the game? Who the hell are you to judge what matters and what doesn’t? You’re the same guy who’s comparing the Void to an ocean as that’s remotely a good comparison.

ok so you do agree with me that he’s one with the void, so that means them being omnipresent in the void is legit by your argumentation.
This doesn't say his essence or consciousness became one with it, only that he has the Void's power. Where does it say that falling into the void makes you become one with it?
 
Literally he says they can finally understand his existence, and he's going to showcase the power of the void through his own existence, with him warping everything with his own presence just like what Exdeath does in his neo state. When the hell did you get the idea that people just randomly explode all the time? Do you have any proof of this whatsoever because if you don't have a statement that this is a normal thing for any being in the series then you're pulling massive headcanon arguments here. The Void still existing doesn't debunk the fact that the entirety of it still collapsed in that moment, not to mention it collapsing doesn't mean it suddenly ceased to exist, you can have things collapse while it still existing in the end.

Do you need everything to be spoon fed to you about how Meteor works when you literally see it in motion? Because the visuals showing it more farther away with not even a glint as opposed to the other stars tells me it's around those stars when casted.

Lightning in a lot of fiction doesn't burn through every single nerve, so the fact they mention it being a thing special for the lightning spell should be noted.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Vietthai96 where the hell are you guys getting immeasurable speeds from? No one in Final Fantasy is even immeasurable.
 
Literally he says they can finally understand his existence, and he's going to showcase the power of the void through his own existence, with him warping everything with his own presence just like what Exdeath does in his neo state. When the hell did you get the idea that people just randomly explode all the time? Do you have any proof of this whatsoever because if you don't have a statement that this is a normal thing for any being in the series then you're pulling massive headcanon arguments here. The Void still existing doesn't debunk the fact that the entirety of it still collapsed in that moment, not to mention it collapsing doesn't mean it suddenly ceased to exist, you can have things collapse while it still existing in the end.

Do you need everything to be spoon fed to you about how Meteor works when you literally see it in motion? Because the visuals showing it more farther away with not even a glint as opposed to the other stars tells me it's around those stars when casted.

Lightning in a lot of fiction doesn't burn through every single nerve, so the fact they mention it being a thing special for the lightning spell should be noted.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Vietthai96 where the hell are you guys getting immeasurable speeds from? No one in Final Fantasy is even immeasurable.
Literally he says they can finally understand his existence,

Doesn't mean a thing.

and he's going to showcase the power of the void through his own existence

He doesn't even say that. He just says they understand his existence in the interdimensional rift, and he will show them the power of the void

Do you have any proof of this whatsoever because if you don't have a statement that this is a normal thing for any being in the series then you're pulling massive headcanon arguments here.

I didn't say it was a very normal thing in the series, I just said a small part of the Void having explosions doesn't mean the entire Void collapsed

Because the visuals showing it more farther away with not even a glint as opposed to the other stars tells me it's around those stars when casted.

What is this random assumption? Things can just twinkle in the sky when they are bright. You can't compare it with stars in the background

Lightning in a lot of fiction doesn't burn through every single nerve, so the fact they mention it being a thing special for the lightning spell should be noted.

Prove it
 
Also, Glassman and Eficiente, please make an effort to be polite and respectful, and to stop antagonising each other.
 
I read the pages for Exdeath and Enuo and I didn't find any evidence linked to their pages for their omnipresent rating, or about that they become one with the void. An important thing like that should have had evidence directly linked on the page.

Neo Exdeath literally becomes one with the Void itself given he tries to control it but fails and is a being that’s hellbent on erasing everything like the Void itself does. Even Enuo compares his own existence to the void itself after he was engulfed so he’s literally a part of it, which makes sense given his death causes a collapse in the Void which wouldn’t be possible if he wasn’t one with it.
Looking at the reasons provided here, the only relevant thing here is the last part, about his death causing the collapse of the void. I'd like to see evidence of it and it should be linked on the pages too. Although it still doesn't mean omnipresence.

Second of all, characters like FFXIV protagonist have infinite speed due to scaling above Exdeath since he's "omnipresent" across infinite universes, but for whatever reason, Dissidia characters who we scale above FFV Neo Exdeath don't have infinite speed.
You don't get speed for simply scaling above an omnipresent character. So I can agree with that.

Fighting back an omnipresent being in general which exists across numerous timelines would qualify for immeasurable lifting strength. Plenty of characters have the same rating for very similar reasons here.
I doesn't. Fighting against an omnipresent being has nothing to do with lifting strength in a general case. Unless there are some specifications and context involved. I don't know what context the other cases have but unless you are lifting that being across all timelines, you don't get immeasurable lifting strength simply by fighting them or being stronger than them.

Because the visuals showing it more farther away with not even a glint as opposed to the other stars tells me it's around those stars when casted.
Meteors are smaller and less bright than stars. If they were around the same distance as those stars, you wouldn't be able to see them glint. Them glinting means they are finally close enough and bright enough to be visible. It doesn't tell anything about distance.
And you can also see the meteor coming from the sky a long time before you have to act, so the speed wouldn't necessarily scale completely either.

A lot of characters gain pain manipulation and resistance to it based on this thunder spell feat of attacking the nerves. This isn't anything special, normal lightning can do this too.
Electricity does affect the nerves or nervous system, so I can agree with it. But if Glassman can provide the source that this lightning specifically burns every single nerve, then I'm inclined to agree with him.

Sub-atomic matter manipulation is given because the Fire spells heat up the electrons, increasing their velocity. This is just how heat works in general. I don't think everyone in fiction who has survived fire or heat will get resistance to subatomic level matter manipulation.

The same applies to the Ice Spell's matter manipulation, this is just how ice works
I mean, yes. Giving sub-atomic matter manipulation for that is a huge stretch. We wouldn't give every single heat or ice user that.
 
It's from the FFIV Novels, also your source doesn't say normal lightning burns through every nerve, only affects every nerve and that any internal burns are rare.
yeah sounds like strong lightning and heat. Doesn't sound like actual pain manipulation, similar to how we don't give fire resistance for resisting lava and vice versa.

Unless you wanna change the standards
 
yeah sounds like strong lightning and heat. Doesn't sound like actual pain manipulation, similar to how we don't give fire resistance for resisting lava and vice versa.

Unless you wanna change the standards
That's a completely uncorreleated comparison and has nothing to do with the standards. Your argument is that all Lightning does this, which is false given the pointed out context of your article.
 
That's a completely uncorreleated comparison and has nothing to do with the standards. Your argument is that all Lightning does this, which is false given the pointed out context of your article.
I told you that strong lightning would have the same effect as Tellah's, and I'm pretty sure no one is getting pain manipulation even if they can generate infinite amounts of electrical energy by our standards
 
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