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This number 9 large will rickroll any filthy, simping Uchiha in sight, Harambe will revive and take his rightful place above these inferior creatures

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GokuSparkle said:
Put respect onto the goat's name!!
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I put Arc in a headlock until he agreed we can use this justification.

Shinobi on the level of Jiraiya, Ay, and Kakashi viewed Minato as an “unrivaled talent” even by present their standards.

I think it’s fair enough personally since there is some controversy around taking these statements super literal and room for nitpick around Minato being the absolute strongest.
 
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LordTracer said:
Completely invalid, yer done kid
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Reference these hands
Godernet said:
I put Arc in a headlock until he agreed we can use this justification.

Shinobi on the level of Jiraiya, Ay, and Kakashi viewed Minato as an “unrivaled talent” even by present their standards.

I think it’s fair enough personally since there is some controversy and room for nitpick around Minato being the absolute strongest.
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I'd probably word it something like "Many shinobi like Jiraiya, Tsunade, Kakashi, Naruto, and Ay believe Minato was the strongest shinobi, and the databook supports the idea that he's stronger than anyone alive."
 
GokuSparkle said:
I'd probably word it something like "Many shinobi like Jiraiya, Tsunade, Kakashi, Naruto, and Ay believe Minato was the strongest shinobi, and the databook supports the idea that he's stronger than anyone alive."
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Yours is kinda long imo. We don’t need to put every single instance someone mentioned Minato’s prowess.

Also it infers that every single one of those statements were specifically meant to mean he’s the strongest when some of them just say things like “best Shinobi” which doesn’t have to mean strongest. If that were true then Itachi > Hashirama.

I think picking the specific ones that verbatim mention strength would be better.

Also none of these statements actually refer to him as “the strongest”. Calling him an unparalleled talent is more in line with how the statements put it.
 
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Godernet said:
Your is kinda long imo. We don’t need to put every single instance someone mentioned Minato’s prowess.

Also it infers that every single one of those statements were specifically meant to mean he’s the strongest when some of them just say things like “best Shinobi” which doesn’t have to mean strongest.

Otherwise Itachi > Hashirama
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Eh sure. Could say "Many people believe that Minato was the strongest shinobi, and the databook supports the idea that he's stronger than anyone alive.

Yeeeeeeeeeah I really don't think that's the best example since in that one the context is clearly his character as he hadn't even seen or heard anything about Itachi's strength, whereas the context in all of these statement is combat ability.
 
GokuSparkle said:
Yeeeeeeeeeah I really don't think that's the best example since in that one the context is clearly his character as he hadn't even seen or heard anything about Itachi's combat abilities, whereas the context in all of these statement is combat ability.
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If you read the context for a lot of these statements tbh you could easily take most of these “best Shinobi” or “unsurpassed talent” statements to also mean the most skilled/highest capacity to grow.

People that interpret it that way won’t get the impression that he is the strongest like you are vouching for. And there’s very little to take these statements to mean one thing over the other.

Which is why we’re compromising and using the statements for how they’re worded verbatim instead of rewording them as the strongest which is more debatable.

Its still a W for you and Papa Minato.
 
Godernet said:
If you read the context for a lot of these statements tbh you could easily take most of these “best Shinobi” or “unsurpassed talent” statements to also mean the most skilled/highest capacity to grow.

People that interpret it that way won’t get the impression that he is the strongest like you are vouching for. And there’s very little to take these statements to mean one thing over the other.

Which is why we’re compromising and using the statements for how they’re worded verbatim instead of rewording them as the strongest which is more debatable.

Its still a W for you and Papa Minato.
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Most skilled is really only something that KINDA makes sense for the Jiraiya statement, and for the rest, general combat prowess is clearly the idea (ig the VIZ version of Ay's statement is a bit contentious too, but that's about it). Just because the word "strength" is not specifically used doesn't mean the statements are vague. Highest capacity to grow just doesn't make sense tbh. Naruto's gonna eventually surpass Minato's capacity to grow? Like huh?

I could take using the word best or unsurpassed instead of strongest maybe if it's that big a sticking point.
Stryker861 said:
Noone:
Goku sparkle: searching for the scan that puts sperm cell minato over sage of 69 paths shibai
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I could've easily argued Minato being higher than I am, but I ain't
 
Godernet said:
I put Arc in a headlock until he agreed we can use this justification.

Shinobi on the level of Jiraiya, Ay, and Kakashi viewed Minato as an “unrivaled talent” even by present their standards.

I think it’s fair enough personally since there is some controversy around taking these statements super literal and room for nitpick around Minato being the absolute strongest.
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Die. I was gonna be fine with this but idk about that anymore 🗿 no but this is mainly geared to sparkle who really wants to push the “no he’s the strongest” interpretation, I just felt like getting aggressive with Net 😘

“Best” Shinobi doesn’t have to point to the strongest in terms of raw AP. You can be the best, unsurpassed, sauced up Saxon at what you do because you’re skilled at it, intelligent with your actions, etc. We know that “being a Shinobi” entails more than just AP dick measuring, it entails resourcefulness, tact, skill, intelligence, etc etc, all stuff Minato has in spades. So to narrow down these statements to claim they can only be interpreted as “Minato is the strongest” just isn’t true. Especially for a man who’s mastered a wide variety of jutsu from teleportation, to numerous sealing jutsu, and more. I mean dude can redirect Kurama/Juubi level attacks. Being the best Shinobi does not automatically entail that you are stronger than everyone else. Just as being the best athlete in say basketball, football, or soccer doesn’t mean you can out punch every other player.

So im fine with including those scans with the justification that many notorious Shinobi hold Minato in high regard, but I disagree with saying those scans mean he is the strongest.
 
I find it funny that using this scaling Pain Arc SM Naruto would be able to beat up Bijuus easily. Low key consistent, he beat up Kurama who's much stronger than other Bijuus.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Die. I was gonna be fine with this but idk about that anymore 🗿 no but this is mainly geared to sparkle who really wants to push the “no he’s the strongest” interpretation, I just felt like getting aggressive with Net 😘

“Best” Shinobi doesn’t have to point to the strongest in terms of raw AP. You can be the best, unsurpassed, sauced up Saxon at what you do because you’re skilled at it, intelligent with your actions, etc. We know that “being a Shinobi” entails more than just AP dick measuring, it entails resourcefulness, tact, skill, intelligence, etc etc, all stuff Minato has in spades. So to narrow down these statements to claim they can only be interpreted as “Minato is the strongest” just isn’t true. Especially for a man who’s mastered a wide variety of jutsu from teleportation, to numerous sealing jutsu, and more. I mean dude can redirect Kurama/Juubi level attacks. Being the best Shinobi does not automatically entail that you are stronger than everyone else. Just as being the best athlete in say basketball, football, or soccer doesn’t mean you can out punch every other player.

So im fine with including those scans with the justification that many notorious Shinobi hold Minato in high regard, but I disagree with saying those scans mean he is the strongest.
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Those are all important for sure, but when it comes down to it, stats ARE the most important part of basically any fighter's capabilities. No matter how skilled or smart you are in a a game of soccer, if you can't kick it for shit, it doesn't really matter. I did say before during the essay wars with Slayer that the statements should be taking other factors into consideration, but strength is most definitely a significant part for Minato to holistically be a greater shinobi than anyone else. Also
GokuSparkle said:
I could take using the word best or unsurpassed instead of strongest maybe if it's that big a sticking point.
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Sparkle please explain to me what’s so different between “Unrivaled talent even by present standards” and unsurpassed.

cause ain’t no way😭
 
GokuSparkle said:
Those are all important for sure, but when it comes down to it, stats ARE the most important part of basically any fighter's capabilities. No matter how skilled or smart you are in a a game of soccer, if you can't kick it for shit, it doesn't really matter. I did say before during the essay wars with Slayer that the statements should be taking other factors into consideration, but strength is most definitely a significant part for Minato to holistically be a greater shinobi than anyone else. Also
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Stats aren’t the most important part of a fighters capabilities. Depending on your arsenal, your hax could be more important. For example, Azashiro in Bleach physically is like normal human level, but his hax enables him to defeat High 6-A characters. This isn’t dragon ball where it’s all about your power level. However, if you’re fine with “Shinobi like Jiraiya, Kakashi, and Ay believe Minato to be the best/an unrivaled Shinobi” that’s a much better justification than “Minato is the strongest”, so I’d be cool with that.
 
GokuSparkle said:
Those are all important for sure, but when it comes down to it, stats ARE the most important part of basically any fighter's capabilities. No matter how skilled or smart you are in a a game of soccer, if you can't kick it for shit, it doesn't really matter. I did say before during the essay wars with Slayer that the statements should be taking other factors into consideration, but strength is most definitely a significant part for Minato to holistically be a greater shinobi than anyone else.
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Bruh this ain't DB. There's a ton of different ways of defeating someone in Naruto besides power. Especially since we're talking about Minato who's famous not for his strength (that will be Hashirama) but for his speed and teleportation jutsu.
 
Godernet said:
Sparkle please explain to me what’s different between “Unrivaled talent even by present standards” and unsurpassed.

cause ain’t no way😭
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Talent =/= combat ability. Kid Pre-Sharingan Itachi had unrivalled talent, but that doesn't mean his strength is anywhere near impressive compared to ninja that had reached their full potential.
Arc7Kuroi said:
Stats aren’t the most important part of a fighters capabilities. Depending on your arsenal, your hax could be more important. For example, Azashiro in Bleach physically is like normal human level, but his hax enables him to defeat High 6-A characters. This isn’t dragon ball where it’s all about your power level. However, if you’re fine with “Shinobi like Jiraiya, Kakashi, and Ay believe Minato to be the best Shinobi” that’s a much better justification than “Minato is the strongest”, so I’d be cool with that.
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"Those are all important for sure, but when it comes down to it, stats ARE the most important part of basically any fighter's capabilities." Idt Minato's hax is potent enough to override AP. Like FTG just allows him to hit enemies easier, it doesn't actually allow him to damage them, and while I do think his fuinjutsu is really good, it's not like he's ever been shown trying to seal away a human opponent (despite the fact that he rationally should be able to), so it's likely not part of his go to moveset in battles. His MO in battles is basically teleport to an opponent and ram them with a kunai or Rasengan, basically ending fights with AP.
Padaruyos said:
Bruh this ain't DB. There's a ton of different ways of defeating someone in Naruto besides power. Especially since we're talking about Minato who's famous not for his strength (that will be Hashirama) but for his speed and teleportation jutsu.
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Uh stats include speed. But speed doesn't matter if you don't have a way of putting your opponent down.
 
GokuSparkle said:
"Those are all important for sure, but when it comes down to it, stats ARE the most important part of basically any fighter's capabilities." Idt Minato's hax is potent enough to override AP. Like FTG just allows him to hit enemies easier, it doesn't actually allow him to damage them, and while I do think his fuinjutsu is really good, it's not like he's ever been shown trying to seal away a human opponent (despite the fact that he rationally should be able to), so it's likely not part of his go to moveset in battles. His MO in battles is basically teleport to an opponent and ram them with a kunai or Rasengan, basically ending fights with AP.
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What you’re not factoring in is that Minato already has stats on the levels of those people, without inherently being the strongest. He can already punch in that weight class, so when you got a bunch of people with similar stats, how do you determine who is better? Skill, intelligence, hax, etc. It’s not like you are arguing from a position of “oh Minato wouldn’t be able to keep up with these guys stat wise”. Minato can keep up with them stat wise, so he doesn’t need to be the strongest, if he’s got other tools in his kit that make him great. Which he does, he’s got good hax and great battle sense. Your position is “oh but if he can’t damage them his hax is meaningless”, lol he can damage them while not being the strongest, because he’s already in the general weight class of “Bijuu level”. So I vehemently disagree that those statements can only refer to his AP, there’s simply no basis for that being the optimal interpretation.
 
GokuSparkle said:
Uh stats include speed. But speed doesn't matter if you don't have a way of putting your opponent down.
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Getting caught off guard (Kaguya vs Isshiki) and critical strikes (Gentle Fist's main gimmick) is a thing in Naruto. With Minato's speed, it's not that difficult to do those.
 
Padaruyos said:
Getting caught off guard (Kaguya vs Isshiki) and critical strikes (Gentle Fist's main gimmick) is a thing in Naruto. With Minato's speed, it's not that difficult to do those.
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I don't think the Kaguya thing works cause she could've used a dura neg ability or hit him while he didn't even have his battle aura up. And Minato doesn't have smthn like Gentle Fist. But let's not clog the thread up more.
 
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