Springtime of Youth P2

[Halkum145]

Yes, here we will touch upon the previously decided gate 8 issue again.

Short version for lazy people:
Basically, I am opening this topic to resolve the error in translation and the form in which gate 8 will be implemented.At the end of the topic, I will have 3 suggestions.

Long version:
We had previously accepted the gate 8 multiplier as 24x in this thread. But I think there is a mistake in the translations. 何十, this kanji is translated as both dozens and over tens according to the dictionary.It does this translation exactly like this: ''draws out several tens of times the body's original capabilities''. Based on this, I think we can get at least 30x speed and ap multiplier for gate 8 gai.

So how do we use this multiplier?
I have 3 options on this subject.

First Option:
Using gate 8 multiplier according to base gai statistics

Second Option:
Using gate 8 multiplier according to gate 7 statistics

Third Option:
According to the scans here, scaling both the lotus multiplier (gate 3) and gate 8 multiplier according to gate 7 statistics

What does this changes?
According to option 1, gate 8 gai's speed will be scaled to 10% SOL (relativistic) and the gate 8 multiplier will be used according to base form statistics.

According to option 2, the speed of gate 8 gai will be determined as 50% ((relativistic+) and the gate 8 multiplier will be used according to gate 7 statistics.

According to option 3, the speed of gate 8 gai's will be determined as 2.45985795845c (ftl), gate 3 multiplier will be accepted and gate 8 multiplier will be determined according to gate 7 statistics.


Agree: @Mamaroza (Option 3)
Disagree: @Godernet (option 3) @Shadowbokunohero (option 3)

 

[Halkum145]

Is everyone ready for the Sparkle vs US69 fight

 

[DavidTPPM]

Am I going crazy or are there no tags on this at all?

 

[Halkum145]

Am I going crazy or are there no tags on this at all?

You're not going crazy. While I was publishing the title, I accidentally sent it and it was left unfinished, but since I couldn't delete the title later, I edited it to complete it.

 

[DavidTPPM]

You're not going crazy. While I was publishing the title, I accidentally sent it and it was left unfinished, but since I couldn't delete the title later, I edited it to complete it.

You should probably try getting to add the relevant tags or this won't reach anyone

 

[Halkum145]

You should probably try getting to add the relevant tags or this won't reach anyone

I cannot add tags after opening the topic. But I think this topic will reach everyone

 

[Deceived3596]

Is everyone ready for the Sparkle vs US69 fight

 

[DavidTPPM]

I cannot add tags after opening the topic. But I think this topic will reach everyone

That's why I'm saying you should probably hit up a thread mod, admin, or someone like that so they can do it for you

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

That's why I'm saying you should probably hit up a thread mod, admin, or someone like that so they can do it for you

I added some tags.

 

[Halkum145]

I added some tags

Thanks big big daddy us 69

 

[DavidTPPM]

I'm going to be a meany but uhhhh

And we can scale kcm1 naruto according to the accepted calculation here. This will have a scale of 3% * 30 = 90% SOL (relativistic+) for gate 8 gai.

You misread the values. The calc only gets up to 0.03% not 3%

 

[Deceived3596]

Thanks big big daddy us 69

Stop, you're 15. Please don't speak like this to adults, it's incredibly weird and uncomfortable.

 

[Mamaroza]

DisAgree

 

[Halkum145]

DisAgree

Which option?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Thanks big big daddy us 69

EDIT: turns out you're 15 Bruh, so yeah, stop being weird ya weirdo

Now, before this turns into a mess, I think there's something that needs clearing up.

This Sub-Relativistic y'all wanna stack a multiplier on top of, are you guys aware exactly what it's based on? It's based solely on The 5x 1st Gate multiplier. Specifically, it's mostly based on the previous goons who did the speed ratings scaling KCM Naruto to 6th Gate Guy, and then scaling a bunch of people to KCM Naruto.

Leaving the validity of a lot of that scaling aside for now, the main issue with this proposal is that it, in essence, aims to scale base Guy to his 6th Gate self and then stack another Gate multiplier on top of it. Ya absolute goons

There's another big issue (probably more tbh), but I'll leave it for later.

 

[Mamaroza]

Which option?

Third option

 

[DavidTPPM]

I'm going to be a meany but uhhhh

You misread the values. The calc only gets up to 0.03% not 3%

Actually I am the dumbass here, Arc corrected the results in the comments

 

[Halkum145]

EDIT: turns out you're 15 Bruh, so yeah, stop being weird ya weirdo

Now, before this turns into a mess, I think there's something that needs clearing up.

This Sub-Relativistic y'all wanna stack a multiplier on top of, are you guys aware exactly what it's based on? It's based solely on The 5x 1st Gate multiplier. Specifically, it's mostly based on the previous goons who did the speed ratings scaling KCM Naruto to 6th Gate Guy, and then scaling a bunch of people to KCM Naruto.

Leaving the validity of a lot of that scaling aside for now, the main issue with this proposal is that it, in essence, aims to scale base Guy to his 6th Gate self and then stack another Gate multiplier on top of it. Ya absolute goons

There's another big issue (probably more tbh), but I'll leave it for later.

If you publish the other reasons, everything will be better. Actually, I was thinking of using mhs+, which is the current level of base gai, as the 4th option, I will add this. Sparkle will most likely respond to your other arguments.

 

[karo_senpaii]

EDIT: turns out you're 15 Bruh, so yeah, stop being weird ya weirdo

Now, before this turns into a mess, I think there's something that needs clearing up.

This Sub-Relativistic y'all wanna stack a multiplier on top of, are you guys aware exactly what it's based on? It's based solely on The 5x 1st Gate multiplier. Specifically, it's mostly based on the previous goons who did the speed ratings scaling KCM Naruto to 6th Gate Guy, and then scaling a bunch of people to KCM Naruto.

Leaving the validity of a lot of that scaling aside for now, the main issue with this proposal is that it, in essence, aims to scale base Guy to his 6th Gate self and then stack another Gate multiplier on top of it. Ya absolute goons

There's another big issue (probably more tbh), but I'll leave it for later.

Could have sworn there is an accepted sub-rel+ calc for kcm 1 naruto blitzing raikage. In fact I'd link it now

 

[Kachon123]

For something like this, I believe it's best to have a human translate '何十' instead of only relying on a dictionary. Especially when it seems like it can mean both several tens and dozens.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Actually, I was thinking of using mhs+, which is the current level of base gai, as the 4th option, I will add this.

That's pretty much the only way this can remotely work with the current scaling.

The only way to use Sub-Rel as a base value would be to have one of the KCM dodging Ay calcs accepted and implemented, and then scaling Guy to KCM via Obito.
Of course, I disagree with this for many a reason, but the biggest issue is that it affects many, many profiles and characters. So you'd have to account for probably dozens of scaling chains and profiles, which this thread seems ill-equipped to handle.

 

[Halkum145]

For something like this, I believe it's best to have a human translate '何十' instead of only relying on a dictionary. Especially when it seems like it can mean both several tens and dozens.

Arc7 did this and said the best bet was ''several tens''

 

[Kachon123]

Arc7 did this and said the best bet was ''several tens''

You should include a screenshot of that in the OP.

 

[Halkum145]

That's pretty much the only way this can remotely work with the current scaling.

The only way to use Sub-Rel as a base value would be to have one of the KCM dodging Ay calcs accepted and implemented, and then scaling Guy to KCM via Obito.
Of course, I disagree with this for many a reason, but the biggest issue is that it affects many, many profiles and characters. So you'd have to account for probably dozens of scaling chains and profiles, which this thread seems ill-equipped to handle.

I added this to the options.

 

[Damage3245]

The only way to use Sub-Rel as a base value would be to have one of the KCM dodging Ay calcs accepted and implemented, and then scaling Guy to KCM via Obito.
Of course, I disagree with this for many a reason, but the biggest issue is that it affects many, many profiles and characters. So you'd have to account for probably dozens of scaling chains and profiles, which this thread seems ill-equipped to handle.

I'm also in disagreement with this.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

following

 

[karo_senpaii]

That's pretty much the only way this can remotely work with the current scaling.

The only way to use Sub-Rel as a base value would be to have one of the KCM dodging Ay calcs accepted and implemented, and then scaling Guy to KCM via Obito.
Of course, I disagree with this for many a reason, but the biggest issue is that it affects many, many profiles and characters. So you'd have to account for probably dozens of scaling chains and profiles, which this thread seems ill-equipped to handle.

Before I stress myself to link a calc exactly what are the people that break the scale? Or can you explain on discord?

 

[Halkum145]

Before I stress myself to link a calc exactly what are the people that break the scale? Or can you explain on discord?

Most likely he will discuss this issue with sparkle and we will find out.

 

[DavidTPPM]

If I'm understanding the profiles correctly, base Guy should currently scale to 1024231.75513 m/s.

Using the highest option for multipliers (24 for 3rd gate and 30 for 8th) it jumps to 737446863.694 mps. That's around 2,45c for 8g Guy. An upgrade for Guy but barely affects the rest of the verse. And that's the highest option possible

 

[Halkum145]

If we use current stats of base gai

Option 1: 1024231.75513 * 30 = 30726952.6539 M/s or 0.1024940816c (Relavitistic)
Option 2: 1024231.75513 * 5 * 30 = 153634763.269 M/s or 0.51247040801c (Relavitistic+)
Option 3: 1024231.75513 * 30 * 30 = 921808579.617 M/s or 3.07482244806c (Ftl)

 

[karo_senpaii]

That's pretty much the only way this can remotely work with the current scaling.

The only way to use Sub-Rel as a base value would be to have one of the KCM dodging Ay calcs accepted and implemented, and then scaling Guy to KCM via Obito.
Of course, I disagree with this for many a reason, but the biggest issue is that it affects many, many profiles and characters. So you'd have to account for probably dozens of scaling chains and profiles, which this thread seems ill-equipped to handle.

Why not just put the 30times multiplier to his six gate value. It changes nothing and does not affect any other character

 

[Godernet]

yeah, a couple of things here,

Statement:
''draws out several tens of times the body's original capabilities''

this databook entry along with Guy's explanation of the gates in the manga implies that from Base to 8th Gate is a "several tens/dozens of times amp".

nothing supports this idea that the 3rd gate to the 8th gate is it's own at least 30x amp, unless you ignore the context of Guy's explanation being a holistic one on the "limits" imposed on the body that the Lotus can open, which are all 8 gates.

so at the very least, I disagree with Option 3.


Guy ~ KCM?
The other issue is that Base Guy should not be scaling to KCM Naruto in anything but arguably reactions.

we see 6th Gate Guy fight the V2 Jinchuuriki who were capable of fighting KCM Naruto previously.

we also see Kakashi and 7th Gate Guy coordinating attacks at relative speeds, and Kakashi can have a decent fight with Obito in h2h soon after.

We also saw a few days prior that the same Base Guy is easily blocked by Kisame who thought Naruto's own movements in KCM were unbelievable.

Along with Naruto being able to contend with the widely proclaimed fastest Shinobi of his era in 4th Ay(something that I believe was even confirmed in a Databook.) who believed no one has rivaled his top speed since Minato(which should include people like Bee, Tsunade, and other notorious Shinobi of that Era.)

Guy being able to intercept Obito seems like more of a case of good reaction speed + timing on Guy's behalf as well as Obito not paying him much mind while attacking Naruto. As when Base Guy does attack Obito alone he is easily disarmed.

Conclusion
So yeah the multiplier from Base to 8th Gate being at least 30x or 36x is fine for now at least IMO, but trying to implement any scaling out of it right now will just make more of a mess out of an already outdated and inconsistent speed scaling we have on wiki for Nard.

I feel like this thread should just be about accepting the multiplier for now anyway kinda like how Slayer mentioned: trying to upscale Guy from his own first gate scaling aint it.

and yeah Base Guy = KCM Nard in speed is definitely not it.

 

[Halkum145]

Statement:
''draws out several tens of times the body's original capabilities''

this databook entry along with Guy's explanation of the gates in the manga implies that from Base to 8th Gate is a "several tens/dozens of times amp".

nothing supports this idea that the 3rd gate to the 8th gate is it's own at least 30x amp, unless you ignore the context of Guy's explanation being a holistic one on the "limits" imposed on the body that the Lotus can open, which are the gates.

so at the very least, I disagree with Option 3.

Oh my god, this will create a circle.

Guy ~ KCM?
The other issue is that Base Guy should not be scaling to KCM Naruto in anything but arguably reactions.

we see 6th Gate Guy fight the V2 Jinchuuriki who were capable of fighting KCM Naruto previously.

we also see Kakashi and 7th Gate Guy coordinating attacks at relative speeds, and Kakashi can have a decent fight with Obito in h2h soon after.

We also saw a few days prior that the same Base Guy is easily blocked in by Kisame who thought Naruto's own movements in KCM were unbelievable.

Along with Naruto being able to contend with the widely proclaimed fastest Shinobi of his era in 4th Ay(something that I believe was even confirmed in a Databook, who believed no one could rival his top speed since Minato(which should include people like Bee, Tsunade, and other notorious Shinobi of that Era.)

Guy being able to intercept Obito seems like more of a case of good reaction speed + timing on Guy's behalf as well as Obito not paying him much mind while attacking Naruto. As when Base Guy does attack Obito alone he is easily disarmed.


So yeah I don't really mind the multiplier from Base to 8th Gate being at least 30x or 36x but trying to implement any scaling out of it right now will just make more of a mess out of an already outdated and inconsistent speed scaling we have on wiki for Nard. I feel like this thread should just be about accepting the multiplier for now anyways like Slayer said.

and yeah Base Guy = KCM Nard in speed is definitely not it.

If this situation is accepted, it will not be entered into the profiles immediately, and yes, as you said, our main point should be how much the multiplier is (My suggestion is to go with lowball and get 30x since the kanji has both meanings) and which gai form it should be scaled to. (For now I'm just waiting for Sparkle to arrive)

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

For something like this, I believe it's best to have a human translate '何十' instead of only relying on a dictionary. Especially when it seems like it can mean both several tens and dozens.

its intentionally a very unspecific terms as it can be both based on context but its more commonly used for "tens of",
the term is intentionally vague about the exact number and is used when you dont want to specify a precise count.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

yeah, a couple of things here,

^ agree with this

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

I can't understand why Base Gai doesn't have KCM1 Naruto level speed. Couldn't the Base Gai who fought Obito be the 7th Gate Gai who defeated Kisame? Also, I don't know if it's in the manga, but Sasuke says about Kakashi, who lost his Sharingan, "You're no different from Sakura right now." This statement probably means that you are inadequate in combat. War Arc Sakura is considered as the KCM1 Naruto level. Then wouldn't it be War Arc Base Gai~War Arc Kakashi>War Arc Sakura~Kcm1 Naruto?

 

[Testarossa002]

Even if it was somehow agreed upon that Base Guy scales to KCM 1, I don't think he should be scaling to the sub rel calc.
That feat was done through the use of body flicker. Which isn't the same as his regular kicking/punching speed

Scaling Naruto's regular combat speed to that calc raises some issues
Itachi scales to KCM 1.
Base Bee in turn scales to Itachi
Base Bee who's comparable to "not fastest punch/top power" Ay
Who's fastest punch is slower than KCM 1.
Aka Circular scaling

There are other "lightning speed" statements that exist prior to war arc which can be calced.

Just get the multiplier accepted here first.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Even if it was somehow agreed upon that Base Guy scales to KCM 1, I don't think he should be scaling to the sub rel calc.
That feat was done through the use of body flicker. Which isn't the same as his regular kicking/punching speed

Scaling Naruto's regular combat speed to that calc raises some issues
Itachi scales to KCM 1.
Base Bee in turn scales to Itachi
Base Bee who's comparable to "not fastest punch/top power" Ay
Who's fastest punch is slower than KCM 1.
Aka Circular scaling

There are other "lightning speed" statements that exist prior to war arc which can be calced.

Just get the multiplier accepted here first.

I'm glad somebody gets it. A big part of the upcoming speed revision will be separating the regular speed of people like KCM Naruto and Ay from their full speed Body Flicker. As you pointed out, it causes many issues, and causes people to scale to values and people they have no business scaling to.

 

[Damage3245]

I can't understand why Base Gai doesn't have KCM1 Naruto level speed. Couldn't the Base Gai who fought Obito be the 7th Gate Gai who defeated Kisame? Also, I don't know if it's in the manga, but Sasuke says about Kakashi, who lost his Sharingan, "You're no different from Sakura right now." This statement probably means that you are inadequate in combat. War Arc Sakura is considered as the KCM1 Naruto level. Then wouldn't it be War Arc Base Gai~War Arc Kakashi>War Arc Sakura~Kcm1 Naruto?

Sasuke is just saying that Kakashi is useless. Not necessarily that he and Sakura have equal stats.

 

[KingTempest]

This is not just for the gates'. This is for the lotus technique specifically