Springtime of Youth P2

[karo_senpaii]

Is it possible though that war arc guy just became much faster just like kakashi?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I'm fine with Obito fight Base Guy~KCM Naruto and the 3rd Gate being a dozens of times amp, but I don't think Sub-Rel can work because that considers pre-WA Base Guy as relative to Kakashi, when their rivalry has always been portrayed as an overall thing which should include the Gates. 3rd Gate Guy being 24x MHS+ is fine though, or Sub-Rel+. Kinda neutral on 8th Gate multiplying off 7th Gate but slightly leaning toward agree.

That's pretty much the only way this can remotely work with the current scaling.

The only way to use Sub-Rel as a base value would be to have one of the KCM dodging Ay calcs accepted and implemented, and then scaling Guy to KCM via Obito.
Of course, I disagree with this for many a reason, but the biggest issue is that it affects many, many profiles and characters. So you'd have to account for probably dozens of scaling chains and profiles, which this thread seems ill-equipped to handle.

Do you mean characters scaling to the KCM dodging Ay calc or characters scaling to Guy? Cause the former is understandable but the only people that really scale to WA Guy are people involved in that fight like Obito and Kakashi.

Statement:
''draws out several tens of times the body's original capabilities''

this databook entry along with Guy's explanation of the gates in the manga implies that from Base to 8th Gate is a "several tens/dozens of times amp".

He's talking about what the Lotus does specifically, which is done with the 3rd Gate.

nothing supports this idea that the 3rd gate to the 8th gate is it's own at least 30x amp, unless you ignore the context of Guy's explanation being a holistic one on the "limits" imposed on the body that the Lotus can open, which are all 8 gates.

so at the very least, I disagree with Option 3.

Not 3rd to 8th, but base to 3rd. Which is consistent with the 1st Gate being a 5x amp. The difference from Base to 1st Gate being comparable to the difference between 1st and 3rd is completely fine.

Guy ~ KCM?
The other issue is that Base Guy should not be scaling to KCM Naruto in anything but arguably reactions.

we see 6th Gate Guy fight the V2 Jinchuuriki who were capable of fighting KCM Naruto previously.

1. Guy had the upper hand while Naruto was doing quite poorly and is arguably more relative to the Base Jinchuriki (at least in speed) and blatantly scale to Base Bee who is just consistently on par with Naruto (I will say as a caveat to all of this that Naruto is fatigued this whole time but the wiki doesn't currently accept clones as nerfing the user)
2. Guy could've simply got stronger through fighting/plot amps. Just look at Kakashi who went from reactable by Blind Sasuke to swapping hands with Rinnegan Obito in the span of a few days.

we also see Kakashi and 7th Gate Guy coordinating attacks at relative speeds, and Kakashi can have a decent fight with Obito in h2h soon after.

Same thing, and Obito was clearly holding back anyways as he can tag KCM2 Naruto at full power.

We also saw a few days prior that the same Base Guy is easily blocked by Kisame who thought Naruto's own movements in KCM were unbelievable.

Along with Naruto being able to contend with the widely proclaimed fastest Shinobi of his era in 4th Ay(something that I believe was even confirmed in a Databook.) who believed no one has rivaled his top speed since Minato(which should include people like Bee, Tsunade, and other notorious Shinobi of that Era.)

You know the drill

Guy being able to intercept Obito seems like more of a case of good reaction speed + timing on Guy's behalf as well as Obito not paying him much mind while attacking Naruto. As when Base Guy does attack Obito alone he is easily disarmed.

No? He's literally intercepting Obito's strike on Naruto before Naruto himself can, and has no trouble blocking this KCM level Obito, even earning praise from Naruto.

Conclusion
So yeah the multiplier from Base to 8th Gate being at least 30x or 36x is fine for now at least IMO, but trying to implement any scaling out of it right now will just make more of a mess out of an already outdated and inconsistent speed scaling we have on wiki for Nard.

I feel like this thread should just be about accepting the multiplier for now anyway kinda like how Slayer mentioned: trying to upscale Guy from his own first gate scaling aint it.

and yeah Base Guy = KCM Nard in speed is definitely not it.

I agree it might not be the best time to implement changes but getting it accepted to be used in later CRTs can still be productive

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Maybe including the possibility of Guy being in the 1st Gate would be good to make the powercliffing a little less steep as then it'd only be a 5-6x difference from KCM Naruto to higher gates of Guy (though it is kinda baseless as we have no indication of him powering up or depowering down at any point)

 

[Halkum145]

I updated the op again and removed the gai and naruto topic. Now we can just focus on the multipliers

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Do you mean characters scaling to the KCM dodging Ay calc or characters scaling to Guy? Cause the former is understandable but the only people that really scale to WA Guy are people involved in that fight like Obito and Kakashi.

I'm just saying that literally all of the Sub-Rel characters we have right now scale to Guy either directly or indirectly, because the Sub-Rel rating currently only exists due to the 1st Gate multiplier being used over Kakashi's MHS+ calc.
We don't use any KCM dodging Ay calcs currently. That's something that's yet to be accepted and implemented in a thread.

Does that clear it up a bit?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Sure
But Base Guy~Kakashi's gotta go the Kakashi downplay is wild

 

[KingTempest]

"He's faster than Kakashi" = "Kakashi downplay"

 

[MinatoSparkle]

"He's faster than Kakashi" = "Kakashi downplay"

Not downplay in terms of Kakashi's stats, but for inverse comparison to other characters in the verse that scale to Guy

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Well this died quickly

 

[Mamaroza]

Bump

 

[Mamaroza]

Bump