This number 9 large will rickroll any filthy, simping Uchiha in sight, Harambe will revive and take his rightful place above these inferior creatures

[LordTracer]

I still think Naruto surpassing Cockashi was about the RS tbh.

It was definitely about the RS.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

The Guy thing is pretty iffy, because while Kakashi knows about the Gates, that doesn't necessarily mean that he knows how powerful Guy is with them. It's not like Guy just uses them willy nilly, especially not during their friendly competitions lol. Also Kakashi doesn't even really consider him a rival lol, that's more of a Guy thing.
DB statements are too vague like we've already said. They offer nothing that can give him any solid scaling, at least not more than what his more solid statements offer.

Well he should at bare minimum know his base strength, and he knows about the amp that the Gates provide, so he'd be able to make quite an accurate assessment of his strength. He does.

And I just don't see how you're getting the idea that it's vague. Just straight up says Naruto is the only shinobi who can surpass the Fourth Hokage, which obviously gets retconned later with like Guy and BE characters, but means that at the time he was meant to be stronger than anyone alive. Even if you downplay it to the minimum and say it's only referencing the levels of strength demonstrated in the series so far, it puts him above Itachi, SM Jiraiya, Hydra Orochimaru, the 3 Paths of Pain Jiraiya fought, and the likes. Idk why this specifically you're so resistant to when it's so blatant Also this really isn't an isolated thing, it's a very consistent narrative for Minato to be above everyone in the present and recent history. Jiraiya said it, Kakashi said it, Naruto said it, the databook said it, Ay said it, Minato, Naruto, and Tsunade all thought only someone with Nine Tails chakra could defeat the Obito that Minato smacked around. With 7 statements/implications that Minato was the strongest person in recent times, you'd think Kishimoto was tryna tell us something.

I mean, okay? Considering the fact that even base Minato scales considerably above Coccashi, then I don't see what SAGE MINATO's Rasengan damaging him is supposed to prove? Like, yeah, he's stronger than Kakashi and can damage him. That's it. And I already explained why it's entirely plausible for Minato to be scaling above Obito in terms of AP anyway, especially in Sage Mode, so yeah. No issues whatsoever IMO.

I just think having smthn other than 'above his base' in justification is good. Like you said, there's no issues with SM Minato scaling that high.

What Orochimaru thinks of 1-3T Naruto doesn't matter when we directly see Naruto ******** on him.
As for the Sasuke stuff, all that really proves is that Orochimaru used to be a lot stronger than Sasuke, and that version of 1-3T Naruto as a consequence, at some point in the past, and we acknowledge that in his profile since we scale Prime Oro above CS2 Sasuke. It doesn't really apply to the version of P2 Oro that we see, though.

It means a version of Armless Orochimaru is stronger than Sasuke, since he was armless the whole time he was training him, and the databook states that Sasuke's been waiting for an opportunity to kill him this whole time.

Also how on earth would a shield ignore dura anyway? :UsoppLaugh:

I meant the Totsuka blade

@GokuSparkle If I missed something that I already agreed to, or left up to a vote, feel free to mention it of course. If there is something, I probably just missed it due to the posts' magnitude lol, so mb if that happened.

• 6th Gate Guy's Leaf Adamantine-Strength Whirlwind~Rinnegan Obito's durability
• Big Suigetsu being at most 6-C
• WA Kakashi's Doton scaling to Rinnegan Obito

And there were a variety of other cases of you agreeing to add things to justifications and the like, didn't think mentioning them would be too important since it doesn't change their ratings at all.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Well he should at bare minimum know his base strength, and he knows about the amp that the Gates provide, so he'd be able to make quite an accurate assessment of his strength. He does.

He knows how strong Guy is in base, sure, but that doesn't mean much in regards to Gated Guy. Kakashi just knows the basic Gates lore, which is "opening the 8th Gate gives you power surpassing the Gokage", and the "dozens of times" statement isn't about the first Gate. Also we've devolved into discussing what a character may or may not know, which should already indicate to you that this isn't really the most concrete thing in the world.

And I just don't see how you're getting the idea that it's vague. Just straight up says Naruto is the only shinobi who can surpass the Fourth Hokage, which obviously gets retconned later with like Guy and BE characters, but means that at the time he was meant to be stronger than anyone alive. Even if you downplay it to the minimum and say it's only referencing the levels of strength demonstrated in the series so far, it puts him above Itachi, SM Jiraiya, Hydra Orochimaru, the 3 Paths of Pain Jiraiya fought, and the likes. Idk why this specifically you're so resistant to when it's so blatant Also this really isn't an isolated thing, it's a very consistent narrative for Minato to be above everyone in the present and recent history. Jiraiya said it, Kakashi said it, Naruto said it, the databook said it, Ay said it, Minato, Naruto, and Tsunade all thought only someone with Nine Tails chakra could defeat the Obito that Minato smacked around. With 7 statements/implications that Minato was the strongest person in recent times, you'd think Kishimoto was tryna tell us something.

So joever.....

I just think having smthn other than 'above his base' in justification is good. Like you said, there's no issues with SM Minato scaling that high.

I just think putting the equivalent of "hurt someone who's weaker than his base using his strongest attack in Sage Mode" just seems like pointless padding. If you feel that strongly about it, I can add it ig.

It means a version of Armless Orochimaru is stronger than Sasuke, since he was armless the whole time he was training him, and the databook states that Sasuke's been waiting for an opportunity to kill him this whole time.

Yeah, the issue is that we don't index that version of Armless Orochimaru as of right now, and I think his profile is already massive enough as is. No point in adding a key whose sole purpose would be to cover info we already acknowledge in his Prime key. Alternatively you can do a "Varies" rating situation for Armless Orochimaru to maybe cover his power devolution or sumtn, but that'd be its own revision.

I meant the Totsuka blade

Point stands nonetheless. They really said nothing regarding its power, although it already has insane scaling anyway.

• 6th Gate Guy's Leaf Adamantine-Strength Whirlwind~Rinnegan Obito's durability
• Big Suigetsu being at most 6-C
• WA Kakashi's Doton scaling to Rinnegan Obito

Gotcha, and yeah, I'm still fine with those.

And there were a variety of other cases of you agreeing to add things to justifications and the like, didn't think mentioning them would be too important since it doesn't change their ratings at all.

No, it's fine. You can mention them since I'm in the process of editing the sandboxes and all that.

 

[Stryker861]

Does anyone else not see the latest message from us69 that goku sparkle responded to or is it just me

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Does anyone else not see the latest message from us69 that goku sparkle responded to or is it just me

It’s just you

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Also sparkle Naruto being “the only one who can surpass Minato” does not mean he’s the strongest at that moment, it’s a statement about his potential

 

[MinatoSparkle]

So joever.....

Nah ur the one coping against the obvious unrivalled narrative

I just think putting the equivalent of "hurt someone who's weaker than his base using his strongest attack in Sage Mode" just seems like pointless padding. If you feel that strongly about it, I can add it ig.

Well it's the fact that SM Minato casually did more damage than Rinnegan Obito that I think is noteworthy, cause Minato doesn't have any DIRECT scaling to him other than this feat, just arguments based on higher assertion.

Yeah, the issue is that we don't index that version of Armless Orochimaru as of right now, and I think his profile is already massive enough as is. No point in adding a key whose sole purpose would be to cover info we already acknowledge in his Prime key. Alternatively you can do a "Varies" rating situation for Armless Orochimaru to maybe cover his power devolution or sumtn, but that'd be its own revision.

Well he is indexed though. VSBW indexes P2 Orochimaru, and since Sasuke only thought he had the opportunity to defeat Orochimaru when he was at his absolute worst and he'd misread Sasuke's progress, that should put early P2 Orochimaru relative or above Sasuke.

No, it's fine. You can mention them since I'm in the process of editing the sandboxes and all that.

K, also I forgot that the Mifune Hanzo thing was still somewhat undecided.

• Itachi>MS Sasuke
• SM Naruto not being tough enough to withstand RS (at least based on the DB statement)
• Enma being reputed as the strongest summon
• Kokuo took a BM Bee slap

Aaaaand I think that's it from a quick inspection.

Also sparkle Naruto being “the only one who can surpass Minato” does not mean he’s the strongest at that moment, it’s a statement about his potential

Huuuuuh? Ofc I know that, I'm using that to upscale Minato not Naruto

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Huuuuuh? Ofc I know that, I'm using that to upscale Minato not Naruto

Base Minato already scales to the same value that Naruto does

 

[Godernet]

And I just don't see how you're getting the idea that it's vague. Just straight up says Naruto is the only shinobi who can surpass the Fourth Hokage,

Who can surpass = potential

This isn’t a statement that at all infers current power.

which obviously gets retconned later with like Guy and BE characters, but means that at the time he was meant to be stronger than anyone alive. Even if you downplay it to the minimum and say it's only referencing the levels of strength demonstrated in the series so far, it puts him above Itachi, SM Jiraiya, Hydra Orochimaru, the 3 Paths of Pain Jiraiya fought, and the likes.

This interpretation would only matter if your first statement about Naruto was meant to be a power statement and not one about Naruto’s future. And even then your interpretation of the sentence contradicts all of the other statements of Naruto being relative to Kakashi who at this point is blatantly inferior to people Tsunade, Orochimaru, and even the brief glimpses we’ve been given of Itachi at this point.

Idk why this specifically you're so resistant to when it's so blatant

It’s not blatant, you’re just giving a goofy interpretation of a statement heavily implied to be about Naruto’s future.

Which is the whole purpose of the last two arcs. Highlighting the current Naruto’s over reliance on the Nine Tails and inferiority to Sasuke. And having him built back up by showing his immense potential and further eluding to a connection between him and Minato.

All of these plot lines converge in the Pain Arc where he “surpasses his predecessors”, Surpasses the Sasuke that curbstomped him, learns to fight on a level he only could previously with Kurama’s help, and meets Minato.

Nothing about what happened in the AS arc implies anything but Futon: Rasenshuriken is above Kakashi.

Even Kakashi by the end of the arc leaves it in ambiguity, which was his impression of Naruto after all is said and done with Kakazu. Using statements he said prior to gas up Naruto is a bit disingenuous when we have a more updated opinion from Kakashi after he sees the fight.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

It’s over Johnny

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Nah ur the one coping against the obvious unrivalled narrative

Rival this narrative instead:

Well it's the fact that SM Minato casually did more damage than Rinnegan Obito that I think is noteworthy, cause Minato doesn't have any DIRECT scaling to him other than this feat, just arguments based on higher assertion.

Comparing attacks like that is pretty ehhhh. Obito mainly hit him physically and stabbed him. Those kinda of attacks would naturally leave different types of damage than a Rasengan.

Well he is indexed though. VSBW indexes P2 Orochimaru, and since Sasuke only thought he had the opportunity to defeat Orochimaru when he was at his absolute worst and he'd misread Sasuke's progress, that should put early P2 Orochimaru relative or above Sasuke.

Ehh, I guess we can add it, sure.

K, also I forgot that the Mifune Hanzo thing was still somewhat undecided.

• Itachi>MS Sasuke
• SM Naruto not being tough enough to withstand RS (at least based on the DB statement)
• Enma being reputed as the strongest summon
• Kokuo took a BM Bee slap

Aaaaand I think that's it from a quick inspection.

Okay then. Seems fine.

 

[KingTempest]

LordTracer/Might Guy

vsbattles.fandom.com

higher with Asakujaku (Knocked out Saiken with Asakujaku[2])

He didn't really knock him out, he just punched away his gas

 

[MinatoSparkle]

What are people even talking about

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

LordTracer/Might Guy

vsbattles.fandom.com

He didn't really knock him out, he just punched away his gas

Look carefully, that goober is on the ground, not in the upright position he was in previously. And we don't see Saiken again for a little bit, which indicates that Guy dealt with him for the time being.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I'm gonna repeat. I'm not saying Akatsuki Suppression Arc Naruto is the strongest in the world. I'm saying that no one in the world was stronger than Minato.

Rival this narrative instead:

I'll take that concession

Comparing attacks like that is pretty ehhhh. Obito mainly hit him physically and stabbed him. Those kinda of attacks would naturally leave different types of damage than a Rasengan.

Stabbing sure, but both punches and Rasengans are mainly blunt force trauma, even if the Rasengan has tearing involved too.

Ehh, I guess we can add it, sure.

 

[Godernet]

Sparkle griddying in his living room after 2 or 3 of the 500 points he made got accepted.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Sparkle griddying in his living room after 2 or 3 of the 500 points he made got accepted

I choose to look at the bright side

 

[Ped2018]

I choose to look at the bright side

Goat

 

[Godernet]

I choose to look at the bright side

Respect honestly

it is still funny with how long your initial responses were tho

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

@GokuSparkle what exact value are you trying to scale base Minato too?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

@GokuSparkle what exact value are you trying to scale base Minato too?

 

[Ped2018]

@GokuSparkle what exact value are you trying to scale base Minato too?

@GokuSparkle what exact value are you trying to scale base Minato too?

I saw


Edit: he didn't delete one of them so now i just look like a dumbass, well done arc

 

[MinatoSparkle]

@GokuSparkle what exact value are you trying to scale base Minato too?

Still 4.3 gigatons. I'm not tryna upscale his value, I'm trying to add support for him being more than just vaguely above Sannin level. Like you mentioned, he either scales to 4.3 or what was 5.68 (AKA SM Jiraiya and stronger characters) and that it's something that could be discussed, so basically I'm arguing he's definitively in the Sage Mode+ tiers of strength.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Still 4.3 gigatons. I'm not tryna upscale his value, I'm trying to add support for him being more than just vaguely above Sannin level. Like you mentioned, he either scales to 4.3 or what was 5.68 (AKA SM Jiraiya and stronger characters) and that it's something that could be discussed, so basically I'm arguing he's definitively in the Sage Mode+ tiers of strength.

so you’re dying on a hill for effectively 0 change. Since either way you cut this pie he’s gonna be 4.3 GT. Aight I’m gonna clock out from that then, cuz idrc to argue if Minato will be 4.3 GT or 4.3 GT.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

so you’re dying on a hill for effectively 0 change. Since either way you cut this pie he’s gonna be 4.3 GT. Aight I’m gonna clock out from that then, cuz idrc to argue if Minato will be 4.3 GT or 4.3 GT.

Lot of people make CRTs just to improve justifications on profiles and nothing else. It ain't all about the numbers

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Lot of people make CRTs just to improve justifications on profiles and nothing else. It ain't all about the numbers

you’re dying on a stupid hill. I agree with Slayer more anyway

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Still 4.3 gigatons. I'm not tryna upscale his value, I'm trying to add support for him being more than just vaguely above Sannin level. Like you mentioned, he either scales to 4.3 or what was 5.68 (AKA SM Jiraiya and stronger characters) and that it's something that could be discussed, so basically I'm arguing he's definitively in the Sage Mode+ tiers of strength.

He's already there.......headass

 

[KingTempest]

Look carefully, that goober is on the ground, not in the upright position he was in previously.

No sir, he's not upright because he was breathing out all of the gas, and he leaned over as he did so.
When he was done breathing out the gas, he stood upright again (see bottom right).
When he went to the position we see before, we can see more gas being released.

And we don't see Saiken again for a little bit, which indicates that Guy dealt with him for the time being.

Yeah they kinda ignored... literally everybody other than Naruto and Son Goku... as the next chapter worth of content was Naruto talking to him and ripping the rod out of Son Goku

 

[MinatoSparkle]

you’re dying on a stupid hill. I agree with Slayer more anyway

Cuz ur a goon

He's already there.......headass

Then why was Minato changed to 4.3 gigatons even before the 5.68 physical scaling was removed

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

No sir, he's not upright because he was breathing out all of the gas, and he leaned over as he did so.
When he was done breathing out the gas, he stood upright again (see bottom right).
When he went to the position we see before, we can see more gas being released.

Yeah they kinda ignored... literally everybody other than Naruto and Son Goku... as the next chapter worth of content was Naruto talking to him and ripping the rod out of Son Goku

I can't see straight rn, so I'll look at this and get back to you tomorrow.

Then why was Minato changed to 4.3 gigatons even before the 5.68 physical scaling was removed

To mess with you

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

This thread is making Slayer drink

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

We really just had that bible war over a misunderstanding

Truly jowari da

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Y’all deserve each other

 

[MinatoSparkle]

To mess with you

Y'all took gaslight gatekeep girlboss to the next level

...Buuuuuuuuuuut regardless Minato's current justification still kinda stinks so still lowkey pushing for that strongest stuff Imma make an imgur of all of the statements and let everyone look at the clustered preponderance of evidence. Then I'm done after that (assuming Slayer doesn't respond to that last response I sent in the bible war)

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Y'all took gaslight gatekeep girlboss to the next level

We have a secret group chat called slay Queen where we talk about how we should triple G you /s

 

[Godernet]

Real shit

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

assuming Slayer doesn't respond to that last response I sent in the bible war

Slayer is gonna strangle you

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

assuming Slayer doesn't respond to that last response I sent in the bible war

mf what have we been doin this whole tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[MinatoSparkle]

mf what have we been doin this whole tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Didn't respond to the SM Minato>Rinnegan Obito thing I meant

 

[Godernet]

I vote we restart from the beginnng and give both sides time to rewrite their full essays from scratch