Lormac_CC
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Every verse here is 1-A which would qualify. Can you mention a verse outside 1-A
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The PoC Chronicles: Tier 1 The Reckoning
- Thread starter Sevil Natas
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- devil may cry
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Lormac_CC
He/Him- 2,376
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Anyways, Neutral. It all depends on the wiki standard, if 12D can qualify for tier 1 just because it contains a 4D universe, then it is ok. Personally I haven't seen. 1-A is a different case as such realms are completely above dimensions, so using them for this case is just wrong
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Jeez... not every comparison is whataboutism or made out of ill-intent.
I never said SMT didn't have anything between 4D and 11D... used "uptill 11D"... or was it 9D or 12D?? Doesn't matter.
My point is verses are allowed to have their own combination and arrangement of progressive dimensions. That never stopped wiki from giving them Tier 1 with sufficient size/transcendence, as it rightly should be.
You don't need linearly progressive and consecutive dimensions.
Understand the logic behind the comment damnit.
Lormacc I clearly mentioned 4D(2A multiverse)-6D(Low1C Avalon)-8D(1C MoomCell).....
.......
That's not the point. Sevil never proposed containing a low2C realm is enought for Tier 1. And I already explained you don't need to have intermediary dimensions.
Also about 1A standards, the logic I stated is cogent. It being beyond dimensions isn't relevant when I clearly stated cosmology not having dimensions between stuff isn't mandatory for qualifing. It's own specific requirements of qualitative transcendence are enough.
Normal numbered dimensions shouldn't go under unfair, imaginary scrutiny when 1A have even more stringent standards.
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I never said it was forged of malicious intent, nor do I fail to grasp the meaning behind your comment. What I’m doing is following the rule made at the beginning of this thread.
And I suggest you do the same, to prevent what happened last time from recurring.
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You accept that something can be sub tier 2 while also being stated as higher dimensional on the wiki yeah? And that this is because they might not be of a significant enough magnitude in those higher dimensions (see: compact dimensions) as well, right?
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Last time I wasn't even present in half the thread when the Demon World's structure was being discussed. I'll maintain the same low profile here, since I already gave my opinion of neutrality here.
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Yeah I'm not debating any prior revision, I'm debating this one. All the information should be presented clearly for people who were not present in previous CRTs. I don't think it's asking a lot for the OP to explain or show that demons are souls in some form of summary. No one wants to participate in these threads because it takes an encyclopedia's worth of knowledge to understand and people get belittled if they don't know their stuff. Everything I've argued thus far comes from the OP. The fact that I get shit wrong is not because I'm ignorant, but simply because I'm working with what's presented to me.
There are still gaping holes in the argument like how humans have demon souls somehow? You all say human souls go to the demon world and become demons, which means they have these 9D souls that the first scan insinuates. This also means any rando human has all the resistances and hax that come from having a demon soul.
Like I don't even know why the OP is so full of filler. None of the first half actually proves the demon world/chaos is 9D, like in the complex spatio-temporal sense. You can prove that the demon world/chaos is where souls return to all you want, but you still have to actually prove that the realm itself contains more vectors than 3D. Saying the human realm is infinitely smaller than the demon world is cool, but it just proves that the demon world 5D, not 9D. You have no evidence beyond 5D and that's the crux of my argument.
There are still gaping holes in the argument like how humans have demon souls somehow? You all say human souls go to the demon world and become demons, which means they have these 9D souls that the first scan insinuates. This also means any rando human has all the resistances and hax that come from having a demon soul.
Like I don't even know why the OP is so full of filler. None of the first half actually proves the demon world/chaos is 9D, like in the complex spatio-temporal sense. You can prove that the demon world/chaos is where souls return to all you want, but you still have to actually prove that the realm itself contains more vectors than 3D. Saying the human realm is infinitely smaller than the demon world is cool, but it just proves that the demon world 5D, not 9D. You have no evidence beyond 5D and that's the crux of my argument.
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I agree that we shouldn't expect everyone here to know everything DMC had added for the past months, one thing is going against Universal DMC or stuff of that caliber, but smaller, more specific quotes will be forgotten by people that doesn't follow every CRT (And that’s basically everyone but the DMC supporters)
If a scan is forgotten, let's just link it and keep this a good discussion
If a scan is forgotten, let's just link it and keep this a good discussion
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- Thread starter
- #49
Yes and No. sub tier 2 higher dimensions are not that way because they aren't big enough. it's because being higher dimensional does not on it's own make you scale to higher dimensional mass. it just scales to higher-dimensional volume and that's it. read the faq for more info
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No, not referring TO YOU, I was using your suggestion as something everyone should follow. I’m not trying to get on you or anything.
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Ah. I see. My apologies then.
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I actually just talked to Ultima about that part not really being logically consistent with the rest of the FAQ a while ago so I'm not sure why I didn't mention that but whatever.
You know why volume doesn't automatically scale, yeah? Cause it might only have mass that isn't infinitesimal in 3 dimensions but not in any others aye?
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- #53
i was not trying to belittle you but the fact of the matter is that you just jumped onto a conclusion that you didnt fully understand. it wouldnt have hurt to ask how or why demons are souls fundamentally instead of just jumping the gun and saying it's headcanon
just because they're all 9D does not mean they are all the same in terms of what they are capable of doing. that statement is talking about souls in general. so yea that includes humans aswell. it does not mean their souls are the same as demon souls
how many times do i have to say this..... the dimensions are REAL they are not fake. they have 9 vectors or axes of motion. you dont have to prove that they do if we already know their dimensionality I.E 9D. we have even discussed this a bit in this thread you could ask there if you want.
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- #54
hm? volume automatically scales. thats the only thing that does scale if you are higher dimensional with nothing to support Tier 1. it's the mass or energy that does not scale. also please make your posts clear i cant understand the point you're trying to make
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ok but how does this correlate with your previous point? like yes the reason why higher dimensional entities dont scale ap wise is that their mass could be only 3D. but how does that mean that the statements needed to prove that a realm is tier 1 need to be related to each other?
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Look, what I'm getting at is that there are two possibilities.
Possibility 1: The last third of your blog was right and the demon world transcends the human world. So now we have proven that the demon world is transcendent and 9-D, why in the ever loving **** does the transcendence have to relate to the nature of dimensions in the verse? To illustrate this with the above example, only 5 dimensions of these 9 dimensions could be "filled" with objects possessing mass and it would still be CONSISTENT with what has been proven because these qualities haven't been related to one another at all in the text. IF the statement said "anything in 9 dimensions is necessarily transcendent over anything in 4 dimensions" or something of that nature I would have been fine with it and you know why? Because it's clear the transcendence correlates to the dimensional value in verse, I wouldn't argue that a 5th dimensional character is only "1/5th of a transcendence over a 4th dimensional one" but that's not the case here. I've explained the difference as best I can with a wiki textwall and it's honestly kind of frustrating seeing you be so dense to this point when Ovens brought it up saying it's enough (and asking "where do you guys come up with these standards?"). It's not. It can't be. You either know this or you are experiencing way too much ******* tunnel vision my dude because a human literally has to be able to understand the relationship between disparate pieces of data like this.
Possibility 2: The last third of your blog is not right because the demon world being endless in comparison to the human world is not enough evidence regardless of what the FAQ says about brane cosmology. I spoke to Ultima about this in DMs and he said he'd eventually comment here so hopefully he will; though that man takes like 300 years to do anything on the wiki even though the ****** talks about that bullshit 24/7 outside of it (******* weirdo) so I might just argue that point later when I have more energy.
Btw I sent you a friend request on discord, Sevil (Tago2099, you may have guessed) cause honestly I don't think the wiki is super conducive to effective discussion.
Possibility 1: The last third of your blog was right and the demon world transcends the human world. So now we have proven that the demon world is transcendent and 9-D, why in the ever loving **** does the transcendence have to relate to the nature of dimensions in the verse? To illustrate this with the above example, only 5 dimensions of these 9 dimensions could be "filled" with objects possessing mass and it would still be CONSISTENT with what has been proven because these qualities haven't been related to one another at all in the text. IF the statement said "anything in 9 dimensions is necessarily transcendent over anything in 4 dimensions" or something of that nature I would have been fine with it and you know why? Because it's clear the transcendence correlates to the dimensional value in verse, I wouldn't argue that a 5th dimensional character is only "1/5th of a transcendence over a 4th dimensional one" but that's not the case here. I've explained the difference as best I can with a wiki textwall and it's honestly kind of frustrating seeing you be so dense to this point when Ovens brought it up saying it's enough (and asking "where do you guys come up with these standards?"). It's not. It can't be. You either know this or you are experiencing way too much ******* tunnel vision my dude because a human literally has to be able to understand the relationship between disparate pieces of data like this.
Possibility 2: The last third of your blog is not right because the demon world being endless in comparison to the human world is not enough evidence regardless of what the FAQ says about brane cosmology. I spoke to Ultima about this in DMs and he said he'd eventually comment here so hopefully he will; though that man takes like 300 years to do anything on the wiki even though the ****** talks about that bullshit 24/7 outside of it (******* weirdo) so I might just argue that point later when I have more energy.
Btw I sent you a friend request on discord, Sevil (Tago2099, you may have guessed) cause honestly I don't think the wiki is super conducive to effective discussion.
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To give my 2 cents here, from what I've gathered at this point after many discussions, prove that your verse doesn't have compactified string theory like dimensions and higher-D AP (for destoying the higher-D construct in question) is a go.
Each of the demon worlds' dimensions are infinite in size, kinda hard to call that compactified wouldn't you agree?
Each of the demon worlds' dimensions are infinite in size, kinda hard to call that compactified wouldn't you agree?
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- Thread starter
- #59
yeah here's the thing. you cant just change the standards of the site for what qualifies or what doesn't specifically for this verse FAQ says the realm has to hold lower-dimensional objects as a small subset of itself in order to qualify and that's it. it does not say you have to make sure EVERY goddamn dimension has that relation. if you think it should be more specific go make a CRT about it then
and also apparently, the DW being infinite and 9D is enough for it to qualify for 1-C. so this is futile either way
this dimensional superiority thing is not the only way to qualify for tier 1
dont believe me? here it was explained to me in this thread. you could even call agnaa here maybe he'll explain
also suggest you tune down your language. i want a clean discussion here not EUW soloq :v
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anywho ultima said he'll comment on this thread eventually so best wait for a tier 1 expert to comment here before we can move forward
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Wow this thread is aids. I agree with Ovens
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So.... It seems there's a disagreement regarding this wiki's standards when it comes to higher dimensions.
I said i agree earlier because i was under the impression that you don't need to prove every dimension between 4 and 9 to be infinitely superior to the previous one (meaning you just need the 9D statement and an established superiority over a lower dimension, which is the human world in this case)
However, after talking with ultima and others regarding this matter, im not sure myself.
So, if it turns out that we do need to prove that every dimension between 4 and 9 is infinitely superior to the previous one, then I'll have to disagree with 1-C demon world HOWEVER i still think the evidence presented should get the demon world a low 1-C rating at least.
If we don't need to prove anything regarding the nature of the dimensions between 4 and 9, then the demon world should qualify for 1-C.
I said i agree earlier because i was under the impression that you don't need to prove every dimension between 4 and 9 to be infinitely superior to the previous one (meaning you just need the 9D statement and an established superiority over a lower dimension, which is the human world in this case)
However, after talking with ultima and others regarding this matter, im not sure myself.
So, if it turns out that we do need to prove that every dimension between 4 and 9 is infinitely superior to the previous one, then I'll have to disagree with 1-C demon world HOWEVER i still think the evidence presented should get the demon world a low 1-C rating at least.
If we don't need to prove anything regarding the nature of the dimensions between 4 and 9, then the demon world should qualify for 1-C.
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Personally, this.
If you don’t need to provide individual realms, (which seems to be the case in reference to other verses that were brought up as examples earlier), then it’s a 1-C thing.
If we do, then by definition of the wiki it was already Low 1-C prior to even PoC, given what we knew about the DW to begin with as a higher dimension above the complete space-time that resides in the HW. Further, I think a decent amount of other Verses need to be further checked on given this fact because this runs counter to the standards currently given (FAQ Page), and the standards recently conveyed by knowledgeable users in other threads, (Agnaa). (Which would mean that by all intents and purposes it would be 1-C under the older system, but Low 1-C under the new one.)
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Yeah, and apparently such standard seems to be under discussion
1-C or Low 1-C, that just depends on the results, I guess. Still, I do think PoC is necessary even if it ends up being Low 1-C, the Demon World is actually stated to be a Higher Dimension on it, that makes everything easier and more consistent with the material prior to the game
1-C or Low 1-C, that just depends on the results, I guess. Still, I do think PoC is necessary even if it ends up being Low 1-C, the Demon World is actually stated to be a Higher Dimension on it, that makes everything easier and more consistent with the material prior to the game
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Oh, no doubt. I’m just saying that Low 1-C is something that should be fairly and easily given thanks to how DMC has functioned years prior. PoC just makes it easier.
That’s why I consider this a clarification statement rather than a “New Lore” statement. It doesn’t actually say anything knew other than specifics on something we were already informed of. The DW is very clearly higher dimensional, but it was always some vague, “4D+++ Layered” thing because no one cared enough to turn into a DC Narrator. Now we just have an exact number on how higher dimensional it is, unlike before.
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Bump.
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I hate you
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Awwww. I hate you too. Respectfully, of course.
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every time i see this,my mind blow :v,anyway it seem that almost everyone agree with dmc being low 1-C then yeah i agree too cuz it seem demon world is larger than human world in term of dimension,about the 1-C i don't sure,neutral then ???
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Enough with your Hornium Torny. CEASE OR WE WILL MAKE YOU CEASE BY SENDING YOU TO HORNY JAIL.
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Until further evidence about the 1-C topic, I'll stay neutral on that, while I fully agree with Low 1-C for now
Oliver_de_jesus
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I agree with tier low 1-C too
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if dante is low 1-C then how many dimension he can reach,5D or 6D ?
Vietthai96
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5D for now
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It seems most efficient here to go with Low 1-C, and then after gathering more information or at least putting the information together as Sir Ovens advised, revisit proper 1-C at a later stage, one way or another.
Actually, what is the evidence that the demon world is 5-D? Stated to be higher dimensional and infinitely superior to a 4-D human world, able to hold it as a tiny subset of itself? Is that enough?
Actually, what is the evidence that the demon world is 5-D? Stated to be higher dimensional and infinitely superior to a 4-D human world, able to hold it as a tiny subset of itself? Is that enough?
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Guys Before rushing anything keep in mind that 1. The standards are somewhat going to change. Thanks to the reactions that came from this thread. Its already beginning to happen in this thread. 2. Ultima is going respond. So best wait for all that to be concluded before coming to a conclusion on this.
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Sounds like the best plan. A revision of standards and a response from Ultima are both pending, so best to wait for them.
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So tier 1 standard changes.... and waiting for Ultima..... 
....woah boy its gonna take time.
I suggest closing the the thread untill then, and reopen this once its completed. A soft pause if you will.
....woah boy its gonna take time.I suggest closing the the thread untill then, and reopen this once its completed. A soft pause if you will.
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