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The fastest known speedsters across creation, now face each other in a fierce brawl (GRACE)
- Thread starter Gabs22_Gamer
- Start date
- Status
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4 km distance though. Wally has time to phase.
When he needs to and very respectively.
54 times and CRT is still ongoing.
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if it isn't his first move he is dead, since sonic only needs one attack to win
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Slowest character winning via speed blitz in speed equal isn't a notable victory kek.
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here is the funny part, nothing is a speed blitz given enough distance
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Finally something we can agree on, except teleportation exists.
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except sonic doesn't use it in character most of the time
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nah, it is 8x as of now, but that doesn't matter since the distance between them is 4km so wally can see him coming, so it is still fair
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Wait, so other than Greenshifter, is there anyone who's saying Flash is infinitely faster than baseline immeasurable via outspeeding the speed force? The only person who asked him for scans didn't get any.
I don't really know much about higher tiers and their haxes (like transduality or acaus) but it just struck me as odd while reading.
I don't really know much about higher tiers and their haxes (like transduality or acaus) but it just struck me as odd while reading.
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Also the main issue was that Bronic seemingly wasn’t capable of understanding my reasoning rather than a lack of scans
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not that it matters with speed equalized anyways
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Ok so I gave my mostly neutral discussion and summary earlier, but I'm just going to go on to say that I think that sonic could win this.
While Wally West may have been able to defeat Archie Sonic (if you use the verdicts they gave for Death Battle or the G1 prediction blog), the Game version of Sonic ironically has exactly what he needs to take down the speedster more often than not, despite being comparatively weaker than his comic counterpart.
While the Flash can turn intangible, Sonic's battle with The End proves he can attack targets that can turn incoporeal and have nonexistent physiology, and has shown the ability to physically interact with objects that normally shouldn't be able to be touched, such as Vectors Musical notes, and this was while he was in base form. This means that Flash's Primary means of dodging Sonic's attacks is effectively useless in this fight.
Flash being able to time travel would also be useless in this fight (compared to when fought Archie Sonic) as while Sonic can't sense changes to time like flash can, the type 1 acausality Sonic naturally has plus the type 4 he gets when turning into Super Sonic prevents Flash from being able to retcon the battle, even if the Flash could kill/KO sonic before he went super. Plus Super Sonic can time travel as well, so he could also reliably travel back in time to chase after the speedster if he knew what the flash was up to.
Of course, there is the arguement that Flash is possibly faster than Super Sonic, despite both having immesurable speeds, and that he could just take the latter's speed. Unfortunately however, Super Sonic's aerial mobility and wide away of ranged options means that the Flash can't reliably get close enough to do so. He's no Silver, but Sonic would just have more control over the battlefield than the Flash can reliably deal with, so even if he was faster, he could't dodge forever or long enough to wait out Super Sonic's transformation.
(NOTE: I partially wrote this a few days ago, and now apparently speed is equalized. COWARDS. That being said, both characters have already shown speeds that are beyond the laws of speed itself, so again its mostly a non-factors here. That being said, Flash has more experience with time breaking speed, and can still steal Sonic's speed, so my verdict doesnt change at all)
And of course, there's Sonic's causality manipulation, which allows Sonic to hurt his enemies at all points in time. Granted, Flash would be partially protected from any changes to his past thanks to his type 1 acausality, but the same can't be said from attacks from the future. In short, any hit the Flash takes in his and Sonic's fight would basically be applied to all points in time in their fight, so the hits Wally takes would be more detrimental than normal, and would likely turn into a steamroll as Flash is basically beaten through time itself. Also sonic can make duplicates of himself to guarantee his attacks will hit, so yeah kage bunshin no jutsu ftw.
So yeah, Sonic just wins this more times than not. Sonic's hax both give him the means to hurt flash while rending Flash's own hax moot, he has greater control of the battlefield thanks to his ability to fly and his greater combat range, and even if Wally could take his speed, he likely could not get in range to actually do so since his opponent can LITERALLY FLY and keep himself at a distance with his own abilities.
While Wally West may have been able to defeat Archie Sonic (if you use the verdicts they gave for Death Battle or the G1 prediction blog), the Game version of Sonic ironically has exactly what he needs to take down the speedster more often than not, despite being comparatively weaker than his comic counterpart.
While the Flash can turn intangible, Sonic's battle with The End proves he can attack targets that can turn incoporeal and have nonexistent physiology, and has shown the ability to physically interact with objects that normally shouldn't be able to be touched, such as Vectors Musical notes, and this was while he was in base form. This means that Flash's Primary means of dodging Sonic's attacks is effectively useless in this fight.
Flash being able to time travel would also be useless in this fight (compared to when fought Archie Sonic) as while Sonic can't sense changes to time like flash can, the type 1 acausality Sonic naturally has plus the type 4 he gets when turning into Super Sonic prevents Flash from being able to retcon the battle, even if the Flash could kill/KO sonic before he went super. Plus Super Sonic can time travel as well, so he could also reliably travel back in time to chase after the speedster if he knew what the flash was up to.
Of course, there is the arguement that Flash is possibly faster than Super Sonic, despite both having immesurable speeds, and that he could just take the latter's speed. Unfortunately however, Super Sonic's aerial mobility and wide away of ranged options means that the Flash can't reliably get close enough to do so. He's no Silver, but Sonic would just have more control over the battlefield than the Flash can reliably deal with, so even if he was faster, he could't dodge forever or long enough to wait out Super Sonic's transformation.
(NOTE: I partially wrote this a few days ago, and now apparently speed is equalized. COWARDS. That being said, both characters have already shown speeds that are beyond the laws of speed itself, so again its mostly a non-factors here. That being said, Flash has more experience with time breaking speed, and can still steal Sonic's speed, so my verdict doesnt change at all)
And of course, there's Sonic's causality manipulation, which allows Sonic to hurt his enemies at all points in time. Granted, Flash would be partially protected from any changes to his past thanks to his type 1 acausality, but the same can't be said from attacks from the future. In short, any hit the Flash takes in his and Sonic's fight would basically be applied to all points in time in their fight, so the hits Wally takes would be more detrimental than normal, and would likely turn into a steamroll as Flash is basically beaten through time itself. Also sonic can make duplicates of himself to guarantee his attacks will hit, so yeah kage bunshin no jutsu ftw.
So yeah, Sonic just wins this more times than not. Sonic's hax both give him the means to hurt flash while rending Flash's own hax moot, he has greater control of the battlefield thanks to his ability to fly and his greater combat range, and even if Wally could take his speed, he likely could not get in range to actually do so since his opponent can LITERALLY FLY and keep himself at a distance with his own abilities.
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More or less
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Flash’s phasing is way more OP than that.
Wally can do it from the other side of the planet and Wally arguably has infinite stamina if he’s being casual so yeah he could just keep phasing and wait out the transformation, thing is that Super Sonic doesn't have a time limit.
Wally can just run on nothing
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- Thread starter
- #179
Wait, I just noticed grace period has ended
goddamnit talk about some attention to my posts to keep track of 
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Is his phasing layered in any way? How exactly is it "more OP", can you provide evidence?
Layered as in "has he phased through an attack previously demonstrated to be un-phase-able"
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Well the only thing I can think off for Flash's intangibility being stronger is that he's capable of bringing other people that can phase, out of said phasing. That being said, it offers nothing to the conversation as Sonic's otherwise shown to be capable of interacting with Intangible beings.
So what your saying that is that Flash would run away from the fight? Which is not only probably against SBA, but also not in character for him to do? Even if he would do it, he'd have no idea that Super Sonic even has a time limit, at least until he decides to travel through time, which although he has done before, it isn't really his go to option in most fights outside of speedster battles (as far as I'm aware).
Again, no proof, but since the flash has done wierd shit before with his speed its probably something he can do. That being said, you still need to show something to verify said statement
At this point your commentary is feeling like fan-wanking. Either give an explanation that goes beyond "nuh uh it wouldn't work because I said so" or gfto this discussion.
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Yeah now he scales to Barry who scales to Reverse Flash who scales above Post-Crisis Wally because he phased through something Wally couldn't without help. Though getting the scan for that one is gonna be a bitch. There's also him phasing Superman and Martian Manhunter's attacks to be able to affect Quantum Zealots which are comparable to 5D imps (with both of them having NPI already iirc). There's also him phasing through a 4D teleporter thingy.
Sounds like a skill issue if that's the only thing you can think of (due to you being the one to do an analysis of both in this thread).
Nah, I'm saying he could do it, not that he would. Also Wally has done a tactical retreat before such as against Deathstroke, this is allowed in battles. Of course he doesn't know that Super Sonic has a time limit, cause Super Sonic doesn't have one. I was once again merely correcting you.
Yeah cause you gave a lot of scans prior. Literally look up his most famous issues like the Human Race.
Funny, I was thinking the same thing. Only, I'm actually knowledgeable on Sonic, whereas your Flash knowledge seems barebones.
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it aint that serious
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it already hitted grace
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,036
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No since wally has votes we need more sonic votes
TheKingStrategist13
He/Him- 1,317
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Grace ended hereWait, I just noticed grace period has ended
goddamnit talk about some attention to my posts to keep track of
You can't just come to a thread after grace ended, vote, and expect that to change anything, right?
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,036
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I voted way before I think. Dont really care add it or whatever but isnt DC going through revisions?
GlaceonGamez471
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No? A quick skimming of the thread tells me there isn't enough Wally votes to overturn grace period in Sonic's favor, unless I missed some.
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- Thread starter
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Anyways, I think the votes towards Wally were like 2 (confirmed) by the time I replied on this thread
it's kinda moot to do this anyway since grace is over, but I'm pretty sure they were based around FireSword and Bronic's reasonings even after the arguments post-speed equalization were made.
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No, they don't, he himself said that they are game mechanics, and a specific time limit was never stated, neither 1 minute, nor two minutes, nor any time was said.
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nah bitch, its ******* grace, vote have already been tallied.
Sonic won, suck my ass, 4D soul hax is bullshit.
I could rant further, but tbh Wally's phasing is inconcistent as **** anyways
Later
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1) I don't care about the votes, only your arguments. 2) I was talking about you not countering my arguments anymore. 3) I'm a Sonic fan, so if I thought Sonic would actually win, I'd argue so. 4) Where the hell did you mentioning 4D soul hax come from? 5) How is Wally's phasing inconsistent? It only fails if people have a counter for it.
Cya I guess.
Oh wow, I know now where the 4D soul hax comes from: https://vsbattles.com/threads/hyper-sonic-vs-aeon.151026/#post-5629447 and it has nothing to do with this thread LMAO. Anyways I can help you counter there (not that it'll help since it's not on the page), but you're gonna have to ask me very nicely.
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TheKingStrategist13
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Even though I do think Sonic should win, FireSword really isn't painting themself in the best light ngl
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He already won, idk why fitesword is acting this way, it is really dumb and asking to be reported
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