- 10,398
- 4,564
Also due to the dark multiverse there are probably infinite evil Wally's constantly using immeasurable speed. (Dark Multiverse Flashes kept up with the Flash family)
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and why would that stack?Amount of speedsters who can do what Wally did back in the day + amount of imps (who have immeasurable speed).
i mean, sonic has non physical interaction, so he should be able to negate the phase, but the speed steal, well, sonic can just think and the emeralds will give him more stats so, idk?Nah, he'd speed steal or phase-kill first.
Because Wally outran their power source.and why would that stack?
Wally has like 5D phasing and layered and stuff. Wally would also speed steal his mind.i mean, sonic has non physical interaction, so he should be able to negate the phase, but the speed steal, well, sonic can just think and the emeralds will give him more stats so, idk?
that doesn't answer my questionBecause Wally outran their power source.
okay, is phasing his first move?Wally has like 5D phasing and layered and stuff.
does he start with that?Wally would also speed steal his mind.
It really does mate.that doesn't answer my question
Only for killing or disarmingokay, is phasing his first move?
Nah he’d probably punch firstdoes he start with that?
how so? that being the source for all of them doesn't mean that it stacksIt really does mate.
well, superhero so i believe no killing from him, and sonic doesn't have any weapon, so i get that he wouldn't use it?Only for killing or disarming
well, that becomes a problem since sonic only need to do as much as attack wally once for him to winNah he’d probably punch first
It kinda does mate.how so? that being the source for all of them doesn't mean that it stacks
Wally has killed living beings before even when not necessary.well, superhero so i believe no killing from him, and sonic doesn't have any weapon, so i get that he wouldn't use it?
well, that becomes a problem since sonic only need to do as much as attack wally once for him to win
call me dumb but i don't understandIt kinda does mate.
not in character most of the time i assume?Wally has killed living beings before even when not necessary.
Wally dies, goes to SF, breaks out, nukes Sonic's concept.
I’ll just stick to calling you dumb then .call me dumb but i don't understand
Suuuuuurenot in character most of the time i assume?
Weak, Barry ate that one for breakfast.dies across all of time gg
I’ll just stick to calling you dumb then .
that seems like a "i lost control over my powers" moment
no acausality on that level in the profile thoWeak, Barry ate that one for breakfast.
Aren’t speed equalized a problem with the flashes? Considering they can amp their speedbut yeah, i think speed equalized would make this better
sonic can also amp his speedAren’t speed equalized a problem with the flashes? Considering they can amp their speed
and one of them jay garrick can steal others speed
I wish it were that simple.that seems like a "i lost control over my powers" moment
Fair, though Wally did resist the past and future being rewritten.no acausality on that level in the profile tho
Boooo, that’s literally a concession considering what this match represents.but yeah, i think speed equalized would make this better
Yeah I know I just meant flashes aren’t they generally unmatchable due to speed amp?sonic can also amp his speed
Boooo, that’s literally a concession considering what this match represents.
d-does wally, the flash, a superhero, kills on a normal fight?I wish it were that simple.
it is not much as being rewritten, it is sonic punching him throughtout all of time, and destroying his mind via physical striking it, if the causality doesn't get him that willFair, though Wally did resist the past and future being rewritten.
idk, i don'r believe so? i guess it depends if it is in character for them to start with thatYeah I know I just meant flashes aren’t they generally unmatchable due to speed amp?
In quality or powerscaling?sonic>>>>dc comics in my headcanon, that is what it represents in my heart
Not really no, but that wasn't why it's complicated.d-does wally, the flash, a superhero, kills on a normal fight?
I mean Wally would be getting hit with anti-matter throughout all of time so no biggy. His mind getting destroyed would be more of an issue though Ig (even though I could argue that the Anti-Matter wave was gonna affect platonic concepts which is like >>> minds).it is not much as being rewritten, it is sonic punching him throughtout all of time, and destroying his mind via physical striking it, if the causality doesn't get him that will
In quality or powerscaling?
and this is why i fear comics as a reader
why isn't that on the profile? i don't understandI mean Wally would be getting hit with anti-matter throughout all of time so no biggy.
o come on dude, platonic things are already over used in reddit/amino sonic scaling, don't tell me dc has it tooHis mind getting destroyed would be more of an issue though Ig (even though I could argue that the Anti-Matter wave was gonna affect platonic concepts which is like >>> minds).
Loland this is why i fear comics as a reader
Powerscaling nah
Because it's a comic book profile, they're always outdated.why isn't that on the profile? i don't understand
Bingo. I'm not even using it for scaling here though.o come on dude, platonic things are already over used in reddit/amino sonic scaling, don't tell me dc has it too
if the profile is so outdated why is it even allowed to be used lolLol
Powerscaling nah
Because it's a comic book profile, they're always outdated.
Bingo. I'm not even using it for scaling here though.
Because, quite frankly, it will never be 100% up to date, yet people still want to make matches.if the profile is so outdated why is it even allowed to be used lol
Yes and no, iirc, Dr Manhattan actually trapped Wally in the Speed Force before the Flashpoint happened. So he wasn't really affected by the Flashpoint.(though this was TECHNICALLY retconned in FlashPoint)
Sorry that was my fault, I got barry allen mixed with Wally West in regards to the Flashpoint.Yes and no, iirc, Dr Manhattan actually trapped Wally in the Speed Force before the Flashpoint happened. So he wasn't really affected by the Flashpoint.
Eh no, it's iffy to scale Barry Allen to Wally West considering Wally's much stronger speed force connection, and Wally has several abilities Barry never had and Wally virtually surpassing Barry in almost every way.Sorry that was my fault, I got barry allen mixed with Wally West in regards to the Flashpoint.
That being said however, my point still stands about Wally West not having acausality. Barry Allen, who is for the most part identical to the Wally in terms of powers, was affected by the changed he causes to his own timeline, and while he could remember the original timeline before he was reset, his powers could not prevent them from being retroactively lost due to the changes he made. Considering also the fact that Professor Zoom could only be free from causality following the events of the flashpoint (where he became a paradox), Barry Allen (and by extension Wally West) likely can't break the rules of causality like Zoom can and thus shouldn't have Acausality listed in their profile.
Wally has acausality, Flashpoint is just very potent.That being said however, my point still stands about Wally West not having acausality. Barry Allen, who is for the most part identical to the Wally in terms of powers, was affected by the changed he causes to his own timeline, and while he could remember the original timeline before he was reset, his powers could not prevent them from being retroactively lost due to the changes he made. Considering also the fact that Professor Zoom could only be free from causality following the events of the flashpoint (where he became a paradox), Barry Allen (and by extension Wally West) likely can't break the rules of causality like Zoom can and thus shouldn't have Acausality listed in their profile.
It depends on what.So scaling Barry's abilities to Wally's is very faulty.
I was talking the more exclusive Wally abilities. Barry obviously has the more basic stuff.It depends on what.
I don't think there's a lot that Wally has which Barry doesn't at this point.I was talking the more exclusive Wally abilities. Barry obviously has the more basic stuff.
you're in for a bad timeIf I say Wally FRA would I be beaten up by sonic fans? Wally FRA
I haven't read a lot of the arguments but it seems Sonic COULD win, possibly, dunno though.If I say Wally FRA would I be beaten up by sonic fans? Wally FRA
Seems fairWell, considering a lot of people (not just death battle) decided that Wally could beat Archie Sonic, who is leagues above his game counterpart, I don't think that the verdict is looking good for sonic. That being said, considering this site technically places both at 2A, i suppose ill be the devils advocate and actually try and make a proper verdict.
(Also just for clarification, I am only considering Base Sonic from both periods as well as both Super and Hyper Sonic. I am not considering the color powers as they have been rarely used in canon games post colors, plus I am not sure if Sonic can actually use them while Super)
So for Sonic, he does have some stuff going for him. Sonic overall is a much better fighter compared to Wally as Sonic has been shown to actually fight a lot more with his mobility and acrobatics compared to Flash, who mainly uses his speed to dodge hits and attack in a hit and run fighting style against people who are slower than him, but when faced with other speedsters his fighting prowess dimishes greatly, so point to Sonic here.
As Super Sonic, he's invulnerable thanks to the chaos emeralds, so its unlikely that Flash can hurt him as long as it lasts. Sonic also a massive increase to his attack range and attack capabilities due to his ability to shoot energy and create energy constructs. His attacks are also capable of hurting Wally West at every point time as shown in his fight with Solaris, so if Sonic can get a few hits in he can likely steamroll, which is made even easier by his ability to duplicate himself with golden copies. Wally may be able to turn intangible, but Super Sonic was able to interact and attack Non-Phsyical entities like The End which have turned incoporeal and have Non-Existent Physiology (not to mention that Sonic can already do similar Non-Physical interactions when he is in his base form, just on a lower scale), so Sonic could still likely be able to hit him if the latter doesn't dodge like normal. These effects are further enchanced when Sonic goes Hyper, since its the same transformation as Super Sonic, but on a greater scale.
(NOTE: Some people might consider Wally West's Acausality from his Post-Flashpoint profile as a counter to Super Sonic's Causality Manipulation, but I wouldn't consider it to be a valid point as the evidence for said Acausality was taken from an event that, aside from it being confusing (at least to me), was technically retconned with the Flashpoint event. The Flash can retain memories of prior timelines when his history is changed, but it doesn't protect himself from being changed, as he still lost his powers due to messing with his own timeline since he never got them in the new one. Not to mention that Professor Zoom, one of Wally's biggest rivals, could only mess with his own timeline after becoming a living paradox during Flashpoint, so by that logic Wally can't do the same without the rules of causality, unless of course a similar event happens to him. It should also go without saying that any change to flash's timeline that results in his death would also kill him as a result.)
Going to Wally's side however, aside from the fact that Wally is debatably faster (at least in terms of characters that have IMMEASURABLE speed) and could potentially outlast Sonic's Super Form, the speedster has one thing going for him that gives him a very strong win-con: Wally West can steal the speed from Sonic, and unlike the Archie version, his speed can't be restored with the Super Form. Granted, the Super form in the game series technically are empowered by positive emotions, so it could be argued that Sonic (who is a naturally positive postive) can convert his emotions into power and restore his speed that way, but thats too much of a dubious arguement to determine if Super Sonic can resist the speed steal since the statements aren't as clear cut as Archies version of the Chaos Emerals, so point to Flash there. Also, while Sonic is by no means dumb, Wally Wests own intelligence, his experience with the Speed Force, and the abilitity to amplify his own thought processes with the Speed Force means that Wally overall is likely going to be the smarter combatant in this fight.
Sonic and Wally both have other abilities as well, but most are either unlikely to matter in this fight or cancel eachtoher out. Both Wally and Sonic can use time travel and resists the others ability to use it (Flash with his Cosmic Awareness, and Sonic with his own Type 1 Acausality and Type 4 given by the Super Form) , and both have methods of BFRing the other person, with those same abilities being allowing them counter the others effects. Both can also dimension travel to different so thats also a non factor here.
I would give my vote for Super Sonic, but I would argue that Wally still has a fair chance here as well give that each fighter has both obvious strengths and weaknesses over each other.
I'll do a more simplified verdict tomorrow for each character for those who are TLDR, but right now its 12am here and I NEED SLEEP