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The fastest known speedsters across creation, now face each other in a fierce brawl (GRACE)

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Emirp sumitpo said:
All Wally needs to do to speed steal is to touch his opponent
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wally cannot steal speed from those who uses things like time manipulation or something(sonic is literraly able to restore time with speed)it is even mentioned in the profile
He cannot alter the kinetic energy of objects that gain their speed from time manipulation
 
omegabronic said:
too lazy to do so, could you tell me?
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A **** ton, enough to blitz Sonic several times over.
TheKingStrategist13 said:
It sounds like they're implying that Wally>>Speedforce>>Most Speedster's>=Immesurable Speed or smth along those lines (Obviously not accurate because I'm not a DC Powerscaler so idk the proper chain, if they even have one)
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Yeah that basically. Throw in some imps too for good measure.
 
Alexander said:
wally cannot steal speed from those who uses a source outside of the speed force,and sonic does not use speed force.
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That's false. He can steal speed from anyone, even characters like Superman or things like bullets or trucks, or even inanimate objects
 
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Emirp sumitpo said:
Sonic's super speed isn't him using time hax?
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Sonic is faster than the time hax, I mean, he restored time in generations,in base form,super sonic is infinitely times more faster than sonic.
of course still count has time hax in this wiki,but a more powerful type of time hax
 
Alexander said:
i am taking the end saying is power is infinite and the rest of sonic foes are finite.
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Uh... That's power. Not, speed? It also seems a little dubious to mainly have your argument rely on a character's statement in reference to itself (A big part of why I was so iffy on how the wiki interpreted the End on the first Frontier's CRT's, but that's beside's the point.)
 
Well, considering a lot of people (not just death battle) decided that Wally could beat Archie Sonic, who is leagues above his game counterpart, I don't think that the verdict is looking good for sonic. That being said, considering this site technically places both at 2A, i suppose ill be the devils advocate and actually try and make a proper verdict.

(Also just for clarification, I am only considering Base Sonic from both periods as well as both Super and Hyper Sonic. I am not considering the color powers as they have been rarely used in canon games post colors, plus I am not sure if Sonic can actually use them while Super)

So for Sonic, he does have some stuff going for him. Sonic overall is a much better fighter compared to Wally as Sonic has been shown to actually fight a lot more with his mobility and acrobatics compared to Flash, who mainly uses his speed to dodge hits and attack in a hit and run fighting style against people who are slower than him, but when faced with other speedsters his fighting prowess dimishes greatly, so point to Sonic here.

As Super Sonic, he's invulnerable thanks to the chaos emeralds, so its unlikely that Flash can hurt him as long as it lasts. Sonic also a massive increase to his attack range and attack capabilities due to his ability to shoot energy and create energy constructs. His attacks are also capable of hurting Wally West at every point time as shown in his fight with Solaris, so if Sonic can get a few hits in he can likely steamroll, which is made even easier by his ability to duplicate himself with golden copies. Wally may be able to turn intangible, but Super Sonic was able to interact and attack Non-Phsyical entities like The End which have turned incoporeal and have Non-Existent Physiology (not to mention that Sonic can already do similar Non-Physical interactions when he is in his base form, just on a lower scale), so Sonic could still likely be able to hit him if the latter doesn't dodge like normal. These effects are further enchanced when Sonic goes Hyper, since its the same transformation as Super Sonic, but on a greater scale.

(NOTE: Some people might consider Wally West's Acausality from his Post-Flashpoint profile as a counter to Super Sonic's Causality Manipulation, but I wouldn't consider it to be a valid point as the evidence for said Acausality was taken from an event that, aside from it being confusing (at least to me), was technically retconned with the Flashpoint event. The Flash can retain memories of prior timelines when his history is changed, but it doesn't protect himself from being changed, as he still lost his powers due to messing with his own timeline since he never got them in the new one. Not to mention that Professor Zoom, one of Wally's biggest rivals, could only mess with his own timeline after becoming a living paradox during Flashpoint, so by that logic Wally can't do the same without the rules of causality, unless of course a similar event happens to him. It should also go without saying that any change to flash's timeline that results in his death would also kill him as a result.)

Going to Wally's side however, aside from the fact that Wally is debatably faster (at least in terms of characters that have IMMEASURABLE speed) and could potentially outlast Sonic's Super Form, the speedster has one thing going for him that gives him a very strong win-con: Wally West can steal the speed from Sonic, and unlike the Archie version, his speed can't be restored with the Super Form. Granted, the Super form in the game series technically are empowered by positive emotions, so it could be argued that Sonic (who is a naturally positive postive) can convert his emotions into power and restore his speed that way, but thats too much of a dubious arguement to determine if Super Sonic can resist the speed steal since the statements aren't as clear cut as Archies version of the Chaos Emerals, so point to Flash there. Also, while Sonic is by no means dumb, Wally Wests own intelligence, his experience with the Speed Force, and the abilitity to amplify his own thought processes with the Speed Force means that Wally overall is likely going to be the smarter combatant in this fight.

Sonic and Wally both have other abilities as well, but most are either unlikely to matter in this fight or cancel eachtoher out. Both Wally and Sonic can use time travel and resists the others ability to use it (Flash with his Cosmic Awareness, and Sonic with his own Type 1 Acausality and Type 4 given by the Super Form) , and both have methods of BFRing the other person, with those same abilities being allowing them counter the others effects. Both can also dimension travel to different so thats also a non factor here.

I would give my vote for Super Sonic, but I would argue that Wally still has a fair chance here as well give that each fighter has both obvious strengths and weaknesses over each other.

I'll do a more simplified verdict tomorrow for each character for those who are TLDR, but right now its 12am here and I NEED SLEEP
 
TheKingStrategist13 said:
Uh... That's power. Not, speed? It also seems a little dubious to mainly have your argument rely on a character's statement in reference to itself (A big part of why I was so iffy on how the wiki interpreted the End on the first Frontier's CRT's, but that's beside's the point.)
Click to expand...
it is reffering to the power in general
 
Alexander said:
speed force is the concept of speed in DCA, and speed steal can't steal speed from characters using other means (like using time manipulation)
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Verse equalization means concept of speed in DC = concept of speed in Sonic. Hunter Zolomon has infinite speed via time manipulation so yeah that wouldn't have worked at the time.
 
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