Everything in the game Sonic profile I have some issue with (removal version)

[Omegabronic]

No, it hits the whole rock, I don’t know where you’re getting this from.

at this point I’m just gonna say I disagree if it’s based on the orbs in 4D space cuz I can tell this isn’t going anywhere.

ok then

Yes, having a starry sky is not grounds for Uni though.

how many times have i said "support" here? ngl i think i am reaching the 30s at this point

do you want to argue for low 1-C 4D space? because that is where we are going with this, but also, where is the proof that they are tiny?

The proof they’re tiny is they’re the same size as Sonic and co in the context of 4D space, so either Sonic and his friends grew or the realms are tiny. I actually kind of see merit in Low 1-C for Solaris but that’s a different discussion

is it really so hard to bring a scene showing what you are saying?

It just shows the realms are significantly smaller than 4D space and smaller than their appearance when inside the worlds themselves, so their size can’t be judged fairly on the outside.

still wait for proof of this "smaller than normal in 4D space" claim you keep saying without showing any scan or clip

At this point I’ll just say if you don’t see my point that the characters can fit inside the realms outside 4D space but are the same size as the worlds when in 4D space, you won’t get it, I feel I explained it pretty clearly.

i believe i have said "show me the evidence for them being that small" more than 20 times already.............i am surprised you are the one who do not get it

Time travel isn’t a dream, it happened in Rivals. This is a metaphor.

it is a situation knuckles thought he was dreaming due to how absurd it was, time travel CAN be a dream, this is proven by knukles thinking that a scenario like this is a valid dream that he could have had

Again, starry skies are not Uni.

"how many times have i said "support" here? ngl i think i am reaching the 30s at this point"
when have i said that they are? plus this is proof that they go beyond the "scope" of the dream, you were trying to imply that it would only be beach sized for example, which is blatantly wrong and makes your "scope" points irrelevant

Nowhere is it said it’s because Void is lesser, it’s because he appears violent and evil.

and as such not necessary and discardable, hence what lumina wanted to do

You didn’t see in the cutscene where Tails says the worlds are like projections? You’re not gonna see it then, it’s right there in the cutscene introducing 4D space.

he is as close as the camera is, you are reaching and coping hard on this one, really, we see that it is 3D and you keep saying that it is 2D via a line that can be interpreted as a metaphorical line of what tails is feeling, tell me, do they look like 2D projections on a screen to you?

Meh, doesn’t matter, I agree it is full size in the context of dreams being actual size.
Same as above.

meaning...?

They’re like 5-10 feet away.

look i am trying to be civil, but dude, you can't affirm things without proving them, how do you expect me to believe in this if you show me no proof and just say stuff?

It does matter when the example is using 4D space, a realm that contains all the other dream worlds and is thus by default bigger than them.

this changes absolutely nothing on what i said whatsoever

Fine; all the worlds being the same size is wrong because the only evidence is that worlds can reach a Uni size and worlds consistently have MSS size

you really don't know what "support" statements are do you?

 

[JJSliderman]

how many times have i said "support" here? ngl i think i am reaching the 30s at this point

The support just shows the Uni statements are reliable and dreams can reach Uni size, not that all of them are.

is it really so hard to bring a scene showing what you are saying?

I, did. At 5:12:53 you can see all the orbs, which have been established as worlds, alongside the main cast as they’re flying, and the orbs are a similar size to them.i believe i have said "show me the evidence for them being that small" more than 20 times already.............i am surprised you are the one who do not get it

it is a situation knuckles thought he was dreaming due to how absurd it was, time travel CAN be a dream, this is proven by knukles thinking that a scenario like this is a valid dream that he could have had

Knuckles has seen time travel what, at least 2-3 times now? Why is this a dream.

when have i said that they are? plus this is proof that they go beyond the "scope" of the dream, you were trying to imply that it would only be beach sized for example, which is blatantly wrong and makes your "scope" points irrelevant

For the beach dream, you only really see the stars when the dream is broken apart by Void, aka when it’s not in its natural state. When the world is restored, it just contains a star, the sun in this case.

and as such not necessary and discardable, hence what lumina wanted to do

Being discardable does not make Void a smaller or lesser dream, you can want to discard things for being harmful as well.

he is as close as the camera is, you are reaching and coping hard on this one, really, we see that it is 3D and you keep saying that it is 2D via a line that can be interpreted as a metaphorical line of what tails is feeling, tell me, do they look like 2D projections on a screen to you

From a certain POV, yeah. The orbs outer parts aren’t fully encompassing and rotate around.

meaning...?

Means I accept the star being full size.

this changes absolutely nothing on what i said whatsoever

It does, the example used is a realm that is different from all the other dream worlds by virtue of being bigger than all of them, it’s cosmology can be unique to it due to this status. It also is the most akin to a space setting in the game to justify this uniqueness.

you really don't know what "support" statements are do you?

I do, support in this case should be for the areas being able to reach Uni size, not for all of them to be the same size.

 

[JJSliderman]

Here (2:10) you can see the background destructible get totally eclipsed by the AM cannon and get destroyed.

 

[Omegabronic]

The support just shows the Uni statements are reliable and dreams can reach Uni size, not that all of them are.

you know what i will say right? all shown of the same size bla bla bla, will not repeat myself yet again

I, did. At 5:12:53 you can see all the orbs, which have been established as worlds, alongside the main cast as they’re flying, and the orbs are a similar size to them.

perspective, the orbs are in the background and look like that due to the graphics limitation, i believe i have said this already, just didn't knew this was what you were refering to

Knuckles has seen time travel what, at least 2-3 times now? Why is this a dream.

"it is a situation knuckles thought he was dreaming due to how absurd it was, time travel CAN be a dream, this is proven by knukles thinking that a scenario like this is a valid dream that he could have had"
it doesn't matter why he thought he was, what matters is that he factually did thought he was

For the beach dream, you only really see the stars when the dream is broken apart by Void, aka when it’s not in its natural state.

nah you keep seeing it after void's influence is taken out of it, same for all the others

When the world is restored, it just contains a star, the sun in this case.

show. me

Being discardable does not make Void a smaller or lesser dream, you can want to discard things for being harmful as well.

good you understood the message of the game

From a certain POV, yeah. The orbs outer parts aren’t fully encompassing and rotate around.

not sure what you are even arguing at this point

Means I accept the star being full size.

ok, good to know, thank you for explaining

It does, the example used is a realm that is different from all the other dream worlds by virtue of being bigger than all of them, it’s cosmology can be unique to it due to this status.

it is the realm containing all of them, they are there, the cosmology can, but i don't see a reason to assume it is, specially for the dreams themselves of are inside of it

It also is the most akin to a space setting in the game to justify this uniqueness.

don't see why that matters

I do, support in this case should be for the areas being able to reach Uni size, not for all of them to be the same size.

well the number wouldn't really change in this case so.....meh, still disagree since they are shown to be of the same size

Here (2:10) you can see the background destructible get totally eclipsed by the AM cannon and get destroyed.

oh that was what you were refering too, same case as the ground, gameplay mechanics

 

[JJSliderman]

perspective, the orbs are in the background and look like that due to the graphics limitation, i believe i have said this already, just didn't knew this was what you were refering to

Disagreed.

"it is a situation knuckles thought he was dreaming due to how absurd it was, time travel CAN be a dream, this is proven by knukles thinking that a scenario like this is a valid dream that he could have had"
it doesn't matter why he thought he was, what matters is that he factually did thought he was

Again I point to the metaphor argument, I doubt the writers intended for Knuckles to equate the scenario to Maginaryworld

nah you keep seeing it after void's influence is taken out of it, same for all the others


show. me

I see no stars here (1:34:26), or at 2:40:31, or at 3:43:04

good you understood the message of the game

No, I think we just have different understandings on what the message was

not sure what you are even arguing at this point

I’m saying that the worlds are portrayed as screens with light floating around from a certain perspective.

it is the realm containing all of them, they are there, the cosmology can, but i don't see a reason to assume it is, specially for the dreams themselves of are inside of it

If you acknowledge that the dreams seen in 4D space are the actual worlds, the 4D space completely dwarfs the actual worlds in size by default. If they’re portals that shoots the argument of all the worlds being equal size in the foot.

don't see why that matters

A space setting containing more examples of cosmological objects than a beach setting makes sense.

oh that was what you were refering too, same case as the ground, gameplay mechanics

Sonic getting the resistance at all is game mechanics and you trying to argue a boss hurtbox not affecting Sonic is a resistance, can’t have your cake and eat it too

 

[Omegabronic]

Disagreed.

same

Again I point to the metaphor argument

knuckles spoke seriously and needed silver to convince him that he was not dreaming, so i find hard to believe that point

I doubt the writers intended for Knuckles to equate the scenario to Maginaryworld

so? still shows that this is a dream possibility

I see no stars here (1:34:26), or at 2:40:31, or at 3:43:04

i do in all of them, in the form of our big guy himself the sun, which would still serve the point i covered

No, I think we just have different understandings on what the message was

uh hu

I’m saying that the worlds are portrayed as screens with light floating around from a certain perspective.

1 going by the tails quote you keep saying, he said "screen" and in singular, so multiple screens goes against your point, 2 the worlds are the spheres we see, no idea where you are getting anything outside of that from

If you acknowledge that the dreams seen in 4D space are the actual worlds, the 4D space completely dwarfs the actual worlds in size by default.

your point being...?

If they’re portals that shoots the argument of all the worlds being equal size in the foot.

wtf would i say that?

A space setting containing more examples of cosmological objects than a beach setting makes sense.

every single minigame inside the dreamworlds shows galaxies in the worlds

Sonic getting the resistance at all is game mechanics

everything in a videogame is basically a game mechanic, we have rules to when we accept them and when we don't, this case is one where we do

and you trying to argue a boss hurtbox not affecting Sonic is a resistance, can’t have your cake and eat it too

see our rules for game mechanics, i can discard those who are meant to be discarded as the page says it

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Disregarding genuine statements that support universal size because the full scope was never shown is actually crazy to me and borderline incredulity.

 

[JJSliderman]

knuckles spoke seriously and needed silver to convince him that he was not dreaming, so i find hard to believe that point

It’s an expression, people say “I must be dreaming” when they encounter bizarre scenarios all the time in real life.

i do in all of them, in the form of our big guy himself the sun, which would still serve the point i covered

No, because your point I assume was that the space and sky full of stars was a consistent feature in the worlds post-restoration, when that’s not the case.

1 going by the tails quote you keep saying, he said "screen" and in singular, so multiple screens goes against your point, 2 the worlds are the spheres we see, no idea where you are getting anything outside of that from

He says they’re like projections on a screen, screen in this case is an unofficial plural to connect to the multiple projections, as each projection needs its own screen. And then being spheres doesn’t discount them from also featuring projections.

your point being...?

That anything seen for 4D space should not apply to the individual worlds, as 4D space is far more expansive.

every single minigame inside the dreamworlds shows galaxies in the worlds

All the minigames start from the same dimension, I think that’s cheating. Yes, some of the minigames feature an outer space setting, but only some.

everything in a videogame is basically a game mechanic, we have rules to when we accept them and when we don't, this case is one where we do


see our rules for game mechanics, i can discard those who are meant to be discarded as the page says it

The fact the attack affects everything except Sonic leads me to believe Sonic is just not hit by the attack at all.

Disregarding genuine statements that support universal size because the full scope was never shown is actually crazy to me and borderline incredulity.

I’m fine with the worlds potential reaching uni size, what I’m not fine with is treating every single world as if it’s Uni size by default, when most of them showcase more of an MSS scope.

 

[HenshinIntervention]

I just wanna say, I disagree with everything that was said in the Original Post.

And uh, we are still debating Dreams in Sonic/NIGHTS being Universes? Wild

 

[Omegabronic]

It’s an expression, people say “I must be dreaming” when they encounter bizarre scenarios all the time in real life.

and in this case he seriously repeats its multiple times to the point where silver has to convince him that he is not dreaming

No, because your point I assume was that the space and sky full of stars was a consistent feature in the worlds post-restoration, when that’s not the case.

no, my point assumes that the dreams goes beyond the basic theme of the dream, which the existence of the sun and a galaxy in them clearly show

He says they’re like projections on a screen, screen in this case is an unofficial plural to connect to the multiple projections

ok, this is straight up headcanon with no evidence

=as each projection needs its own screen.

no it doesn't, all it would need is one big screen to show all of them, you are really reaching right now

And then being spheres doesn’t discount them from also featuring projections.

a screen would imply it to be a flatish screen showing the dreams, this is not the case

That anything seen for 4D space should not apply to the individual worlds, as 4D space is far more expansive.

with all dreams being of the same size in it having no conection to what the dimension itself looks like

All the minigames start from the same dimension, I think that’s cheating.

nope, they are all in the dream world they are iniate in, to say that they don't requires proof from you since the default assumption is that they default assumption

Yes, some of the minigames feature an outer space setting, but only some.

the beginning of them always show a galaxy

The fact the attack affects everything except Sonic leads me to believe Sonic is just not hit by the attack at all.

if you want to believe that ok

I’m fine with the worlds potential reaching uni size, what I’m not fine with is treating every single world as if it’s Uni size by default, when most of them showcase more of an MSS scope.

the full scope not being shown is not an anti feat for the full size at all

 

[JJSliderman]

and in this case he seriously repeats its multiple times to the point where silver has to convince him that he is not dreaming.

He says it once, and it’s not even about the change to the island that occurs as a result of the Phantom Ruby (the time when it would actually make sense to be a dream).

no, my point assumes that the dreams goes beyond the basic theme of the dream, which the existence of the sun and a galaxy in them clearly show

And my point is distinctly space like elements are only visible when the walls between dreams are broken down by Void, and are not natural. The natural elements of the dreams are primarily single star range only.

no it doesn't, all it would need is one big screen to show all of them, you are really reaching right now

There are dreams in both sides of the characters, you can’t accomplish that with a single screen. Not to mention all the worlds are disconnected and aren’t shown as on the same sort of solid plane, so it’s not one screen connecting all of them.

a screen would imply it to be a flatish screen showing the dreams, this is not the case

3D or 2D screen, literally doesn’t matter, a screen is a screen.

with all dreams being of the same size in it having no conection to what the dimension itself looks like

Again, the individual dream worlds cannot be held to the same standard as 4D space when the latter bridges all these worlds together, was directly created by Illumina as the original dream, and is far bigger than all the other dreams.

nope, they are all in the dream world they are iniate in, to say that they don't requires proof from you since the default assumption is that they default assumption

The fact that all the minigames start from an area with the exact same background no matter where you initiated the minigame is an indicator that said area is a consistent minigame start area.

the beginning of them always show a galaxy

Because they all start from the same dimension.

if you want to believe that ok

Yes because, it’s logical. If Sonic doesn’t get damaged even when he does get damaged by other sources, sources that do take damage from the same attacks Sonic is ignoring, the logical answer is that the attacks aren’t hitting.

the full scope not being shown is not an anti feat for the full size at all

It’s not an anti feat but it doesn’t confirm anything either, dreams are by nature different for every instance of sleeping and not every dream is the same in scope.

 

[JJSliderman]

I just wanna say, I disagree with everything that was said in the Original Post.

And uh, we are still debating Dreams in Sonic/NIGHTS being Universes? Wild

If you disagree with everything, give a source for low godly regen, because from what I’ve seen people just say Sonic can do it without sourcing. Being able to revive with soul energy does not by default mean that Sonic can regen his whole body.

 

[PlozAlcachaz]

I’m fine with the worlds potential reaching uni size, what I’m not fine with is treating every single world as if it’s Uni size by default, when most of them showcase more of an MSS scope.

If you accept some worlds can be/are universe-sized, what stops the rest from being that size? This is a serious question. I would agree with you if it were consistent that the dreams vary in size, but you have not produced any evidence demonstrating such. It appears to be something you've added arbitrarily. Other dreams consistently showing starry skies does not limit them to that 4-A sized space. The player perspective would literally be the same for the universe-sized spaces if we didn't get the other details showing they are larger. This just comes across as needlessly nitpicky.

 

[Starsprite53]

I agree with Ploz here, despite me not really agreeing with 2-B MW, but this argument is really bad, saying they vary for the sake of being unnecessary strict and nitpicky, espacially when we saw them being parallel (bubbles) and showing common traits (celestial objects)
Why do we need to twist and turn to say that they differ in size for no reason, especially since the issue of various sizes was not mentioned

 

[Starsprite53]

Also why you guys are wasting your time in desperetly stonewalling and countering the "I must be dreaming" knuckles argument, that shit is common in 100% in fiction when a character thinks he is dreaming but he is actually not, heck it's doesn't add or take anything from the argument so why arguing that

 

[Theuser789]

I'll be more specific with my stance on this thread. I disagree with everything in the OP FRA except for Antimatter Manipulation for Sonic (I'm neutral) FRA.

That being said, I agree with JJ on Low-Godly. It's not a passive effect of Sonic constantly regenerating, and thus it's Resurrection of a soul-based variety. This was agreed upon in his previous thread, and JJ's dubious reasonings for creating this thread should be cast aside.

We should also try and tone down the hostilities within this thread, even if there's some bad faith. Please, let's keep this civil.

If that's the reason, then I am fine with removing low godly as well. My problem is just with the terrible arguments in this thread rather than removing it. If OP actually provived a reason for removing low godly like you did, I would've agreed with it.

 

[Theuser789]

Also why you guys are wasting your time in desperetly stonewalling and countering the "I must be dreaming" knuckles argument, that shit is common in 100% in fiction when a character thinks he is dreaming but he is actually not, heck it's doesn't add or take anything from the argument so why arguing that

Stonewalling is a very common trait of a JJ thread.

Anyways, can a staff member unlock Sonic's page so that the anti-matter resistance and low godly regen are either tweaked or removed, since everything else was disagreed with? Because this thread is not going anywhere.

 

[JJSliderman]

Stonewalling is a very common trait of a JJ thread.

Anyways, can a staff member unlock Sonic's page so that the anti-matter resistance and low godly regen are either tweaked or removed, since everything else was disagreed with? Because this thread is not going anywhere.

Why should matter resistance stay if antimatter is going? Moreover, why should durability negation stay? The argument for it is a statement that Excalibur can cut through anything (which can be done with strength), and that Meteor Charge bypasses Merlina’s defenses in a single blow (it didn’t, Sonic had already landed many hits prior to weaken her).

Power Null is also flawed, it’s more just attack nullification. Sonic breaking magic barriers isn’t really power null so much as it’s chipping away at a barrier until it breaks.

I agree with Ploz here, despite me not really agreeing with 2-B MW, but this argument is really bad, saying they vary for the sake of being unnecessary strict and nitpicky, espacially when we saw them being parallel (bubbles) and showing common traits (celestial objects)
Why do we need to twist and turn to say that they differ in size for no reason, especially since the issue of various sizes was not mentioned

Because people having different size dreams based on their ambitions, desires, etc. having a different reach is common. If one guy wishes to conquer the multiverse and another guy just wants to sit by the fire and eat chocolate, why should their dreams be equivalent sizes. Especially when the artifacts that would justify Uni side (namely the sky full of stars) is not a standard part of all the dream worlds, only being visible when the dream is breaking apart and revealing outside the scope of the dream.

 

[Fireld]

Agree with matter/anti-matter+resurrection stuff & disagree with the rest of the OP FRA.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Moreover, why should durability negation stay? The argument for it is a statement that Excalibur can cut through anything (which can be done with strength) and that Meteor Charge bypasses Merlina’s defenses in a single blow (it didn’t, Sonic had already landed many hits prior to weaken her).

I'm not sure why you're so eager to misconstrue the contents of the profile to fit your arguments. I've already told you in one of my first replies is that the contents of the Arthurian Mythos is canon. Hence why Excalibur even got Durability Negation, one statement from Sonic isn't all there is and that wasn't the basis once it was accepted iirc. Go and find when it was added if you want, but stop talking out of your ass.

 

[Alexander]

Agree with matter/anti-matter+resurrection stuff & disagree with the rest of the OP FRA.

why?

 

[JJSliderman]

And how do we know the mythos version was dura neg? It was a mystical artifact in the medieval era, it could hypothetically cut through anything by being stronger than everything else there as well.

 

[Fireld]

why?

For arguments other people made. Why do you ask/qoute only me on this?

 

[Alexander]

Isn't it just supposed that sonic should have the same resistance as shadow due to basically scaling? And the low-godly regen for soul resurrection should be there, it's not resurrection, there are several other resurrection items that work towards it, but this isn't it a resurrection,this is a reconstruction(basically regeneration)

 

[JJSliderman]

But Sonic is never in a scenario where his whole body is destroyed, which is a requirement for low-godly.

And resistance scaling between Shadow and Sonic doesn’t work as seen in multiple points in the franchise, including this game with the bio gas.

 

[Alexander]

But Sonic is never in a scenario where his whole body is destroyed, which is a requirement for low-godly.

And resistance scaling between Shadow and Sonic doesn’t work as seen in multiple points in the franchise, including this game with the bio gas.

ah ok?

 

[Theuser789]

Why should matter resistance stay if antimatter is going?

Yeah, that should go to. That was already inferred from my original post.

The rest is because nobody agrees with your shitty arguments.

 

[JJSliderman]

You mean like your shitty non-argument about low-godly.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Tone it down both of you.

 

[JJSliderman]

Dura neg for Excalibur is just a big NLF and I stand by it.
Power null also is meh and should be limited to just barrier and attack nullification, and even for barriers it’s debatable because Sonic doesn’t just negate them in one cut.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Anyways, can a staff member unlock Sonic's page so that the anti-matter resistance and low godly regen are either tweaked or removed, since everything else was disagreed with? Because this thread is not going anywhere.

Done,

Sonic the Hedgehog (Modern)

Sonic the Hedgehog (ソニック・ザ・ヘッジホッグ, Sonikku za Hejjihoggu?) is Sega's mascot and the eponymous protagonist of the Sonic the Hedgehog video game series. He is an anthropomorphic hedgehog born with the ability to run faster than at the speed of sound and beyond, hence his name, and possesses...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[ShakeResounding]

I can handle the edit, lemme get on my laptop.

 

[JJSliderman]

Tbh I looked at a video of someone powerscaling Arthurian mythos and did not hear anything about the sword being able to cut through everything. Just that it was the greatest sword ever, scales above indestructible swords, and could slice through steel and flesh with ease. Part of me feels that the legend of it cutting through everything is Chinese whispers of some kind.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Done,

Sonic the Hedgehog (Modern)

Sonic the Hedgehog (ソニック・ザ・ヘッジホッグ, Sonikku za Hejjihoggu?) is Sega's mascot and the eponymous protagonist of the Sonic the Hedgehog video game series. He is an anthropomorphic hedgehog born with the ability to run faster than at the speed of sound and beyond, hence his name, and possesses...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I've removed Resistance to Matter/Antimatter Manipulation, replaced Low-Godly with Resurrection, and altered Chaos Control's layer (it's still referred to as Resistance Negation but there's a separate thread already made to handle that so I didn't remove it) to note it can affect those unaffected by White Space. I think this might need to be reflected in other profiles as well, such as the Chaos Emeralds, so I'll course through the profiles later to see.

 

[Omegabronic]

I've removed Resistance to Matter/Antimatter Manipulation, replaced Low-Godly with Resurrection, and altered Chaos Control's layer (it's still referred to as Resistance Negation but there's a separate thread already made to handle that so I didn't remove it) to note it can affect those unaffected by White Space. I think this might need to be reflected in other profiles as well, such as the Chaos Emeralds, so I'll course through the profiles later to see.

why did you removed the time switch part when no one agreed with it being removed?

 

[ShakeResounding]

why did you removed the time switch part when no one agreed with it being removed?

That was a fat-finger, my b, you can edit it back in if you want but I'm no longer on my laptop

 

[Omegabronic]

That was a fat-finger, my b, you can edit it back in if you want but I'm no longer on my laptop

ok no problem, will do

 

[Theuser789]

Tbh I looked at a video of someone powerscaling Arthurian mythos and did not hear anything about the sword being able to cut through everything. Just that it was the greatest sword ever, scales above indestructible swords, and could slice through steel and flesh with ease. Part of me feels that the legend of it cutting through everything is Chinese whispers of some kind.

The statment comes from an official japonese website launched around Black Knight release talking about the Arthurian mythos, that's why it was accepted.

 

[JJSliderman]

The original quote in the upgrade thread just mentions slicing through steel and rock, that’s hardly exhaustive to say the blade “never shatters”.

And frankly the time switch part is silly, using things like scripted stage location dialogue or arguing that people would make a time stop switch that doesn’t protect the user of said switch to prop it up. White Space is fine, but time switch stuff is not.

 

[Omegabronic]

And frankly the time switch part is silly, using things like scripted stage location dialogue or arguing that people would make a time stop switch that doesn’t protect the user of said switch to prop it up. White Space is fine, but time switch stuff is not.

yeah, you said that already, people disagreed and offered counter arguments for it, you repeating it once again will not convince anyone