(The Elder Scrolls) Question about Alduin and Mehrune Dagon

[MagiSinbad]

So i found this story in the Imperium Library

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/seven-fights-aldudagga

Which straight out telling us that Dagon used to be a mortal and his ascension to become a Daedric Prince was actually a curse from Alduin. My question is how canon is this story ? As it's written by Michael Kirkbride so i suppose it's do have a place in TES canon universe. If it's canon then will Alduin be upgrade to a Daedric Prince's level ?

 

[MagiSinbad]

Bumb

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Hello Magi! I'll try to answer your question, though it is a bit complex, so wait for it.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Firstly, yes. The Seven Fights of the Aldudagga are "Canon", however important this concept actually is for Elder Scrolls Lore. Nevertheless, it was written by Michael Kirkbride and it is a valid piece of lore. Concepts first introduced in the Aldudaggas (Painted Cows as offerings for giants, the Kalpic Cycle, and the Clever Men Wizards) later made their way into the games.

In the Aldudagga, the Daedric Prince Mehrunes Dagon is revealed to have originally been a Lesser Dremora Lord known as "The Leaper Demon King", due to his ability to leap between Kalpas.

Anyways, Alduin figures out that Dagon was conserving pieces of creation from Kalpa to Kalpa so that Alduin's eating of the world would become more difficult every time, and enraged, he curses Dagon to only destroy instead of create:

And the Leaper Demon King saw a possible way out of this mess for himself but he nodded too eagerly, saying "Yes, yes, yes! Yes!" and the dragon knew that any mercy he might give to this little demon would not result in any true learning. So he cursed the king of the leapers, calling him Dago, saying:
"The Greedy Man has already f*cked himself up good, hiding inside something that didn't exist anymore, but you: you I curse right here and right now! I take away your ability to jump and jump and jump and doom you to [the void] where you will not be able to leave except for auspicious days long between one and another and even so only through hard, hard work. And it will be this way, my little corner cutter, until you have destroyed all that in the world which you have stolen from earlier kalpas, which is to say probably never at all!"
(...)
In fact, after many looks east, west, south, and north, and seeing only the churning dragon stop around him, Dagon realied that at some point when he was begging with his eyes closed that Alduin had eaten him, mountaintop and all, and he had not heard the big chomp because he had been begging too loud. And he knew that the last world had been eaten entirely, except for its stolen portions, and that when the new kalpa began to form The Greedy Man (who never stayed trapped for long) would begin sticking these stolen portions back on in the craziest of places, and that he himself could never jump again until all was put back right.
He also knew that the name of "Dagon" would no longer be that of a kindly leaper demon but one who would destroy and destroy and destroy whenever he could find some small escape [from his home in the oblivion]....
Now, there are a few things to keep in mind for this story:

1. The Seven Fights of the Aldudagga are Bretonordic Skaldic Folktales that have been passed down orally over the ages. And it has doubtless changed over time, leading to many anachronisms in the tale and whatnot.

2. The written down document of the Aldudagga that we have is an In-Universe transcription and translation of the aforementioned oral stories, and quite a bad one in fact. This is why everyone curses like a sailor in the story.

I'm not saying that the Aldudagga is U N R E L I A B L E A N D N O T T R U E or whatever, I'm just saying that we need to be aware that it is possibly not entirely accurate.

Now, there is in fact a second possible origin story for Mehrunes Dagon, told in Mankar Camoran's Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes, which itself is a tome of eldritch power written by Dagon himself based on knowledge revealed to him by Xarxes, the Altmeri Scribe God. So already the ideas contained within it are exponentially more believable than the Bretonordic Skaldic tales, specially since it comes from Dagon himself.

The Commentaries go as follows:

May the holder of the fourth key know the heart thereby: the Mundex Terrene was once ruled over solely by the tyrant dreugh-kings, each to their own dominion, and borderwars fought between their slave oceans. They were akin to the time-totems of old, yet evil, and full of mockery and profane powers. No one that lived did so outside of the sufferance of the dreughs.
I give my soul to the Magna Ge, sayeth the joyous in Paradise, for they created Mehrunes the Razor in secret, in the very bowels of Lyg, the domain of the Upstart who vanishes. Though they came from diverse waters, each Get shared sole purpose: to artifice a prince of good, spinning his likeness in random swath, and imbuing him with Oblivion's most precious and scarce asset: hope.
Deathlessly I intone from Paradise: Mehrunes the Thieftaker, Mehrunes Godsbody, Mehrunes the Red Arms That Went Up! Nu-Mantia! Liberty!:
Deny not that these days shall come again, my novitiates! For as Mehrunes threw down Lyg and cracked his face, declaring each of the nineteen and nine and nine oceans Free, so shall he crack the serpent crown of the Cyrodiils and make federation!
The Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes assert that Mehrunes Dagon was created by the Magne-Ge within the bowels of Lyg (An inverted parallel timeline that is also a past Kalpa basically), imbuing him with his power and with Hope (Mehrunes is the Daedric Prince of Change and Revolution, after all).

Now, there is a catch with some people have caught on: The Commentaries never once refer to the Prince of Destruction as "Mehrunes Dagon". It is always merely Dagon, or Lord Dagon. In fact, Mankar Camoran never uses the term in all his dialogue in Oblivion either. It is always just Dagon. Meanwhile, Mehrunes is only used to refer to the Razor, as it is its proper name. Mehrunes the Razor, Dagon's weapon and symbol of its power.

This has led the Elder Scrolls Lore Community to reach a conclusion about Mehrunes and Dagon:

The two are separate and not the same. Dagon existed prior to becoming a Prince, as the Leaper Demon King, a lesser Daedric Lord. And he only ascended to the ranks of the Princes of Misrule through the power of the Mehrunes Razor, bestowed onto him by the Magne-Ge. Mehrunes the Razor is Lord Dagon's power and symbol of office, the extension of his arm through which he Destroys.

So while Alduin may have likely cursed the Leaper Demon King, Lord Dagon, into his new assigned role, Dagon wouldn't have become a Daedric Prince until obtaining the Mehrunes Razor in the bowels of Lyg from the Magne-Ge.

 

[MagiSinbad]

I see. Thank Matt, that was a good read owo

But is this really the same Mehrune Razor that appeared in the Skyrim ? I know it's artifact of Dagon but never though it's really that powerful o-o

 

[Tonyferguson]

I'm pretty sure there's s big difference between what we see in game and outside of it

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I see. Thank Matt, that was a good read owo
But is this really the same Mehrune Razor that appeared in the Skyrim ? I know it's artifact of Dagon but never though it's really that powerful o-o

It's kinda the same but when mortals wield the artifacts of the gods they are not holding the same power as when the gods wield them. As the artifacts are extensions of themselves and imbued with their power.