XSOULOFCINDERX
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Isn't he literally Alduin's Brother and was his right hand man back in the Dragon Cult Era?
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The Elder Scrolls Half-Time Revisions
- Thread starter FaxNovuuuuu
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- #42
He got one tapped by Alduin so he won’t be anywhere near his level. Assuming we actually get more TES profiles he’d probs just be tier 2 at the most
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- #43
All dragons refer to others as brother, but Alduin is a different case. He’s the Walking Dragon god on Nirn in the “Flesh”. The rest of the Dragons don’t compare. For instance, Kaalgrontiid had to absorb the power of Jode’s core and complete the Dark aeon prophecy to be as strong as a Dragon god like Akatosh or Alduin.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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When did Alduin One-Shot Paarthurnax? We literally 2v1 him in Skyrim and Paarthurnax fights him for quite awhile if you just let the two of them go at on their own.
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- #45
It was a glitch if that happened. In overall canon it’s stated that Paarthnax got obliterated in one shot:
Plus it would make no real sense for him to be at that level, due to it being basically stated that Alduin during the events of Skyrim was also a threat to the constellations, which means the power he possessed at that moment was far beyond just Nirn level but more onto the structure of the Mundus itself:
Gaze upon the night sky, the three guardian constellations watch over their charges; protecting them from the Serpent, Alduin the World Eater. The Mage, the Warrior, and the Thief stand watch in vigilance.
so yea
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he did not put a fight on lore.
On the lore he went after alduin and alduin one shot him and paarthurnax was send crashing down to the mountain and there he stayed
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- #47
However, even though it’s stated that during the events of Skyrim Alduin’s power is far beyond Nirn tier, I doubt that would be enough to outright give the Dovahkiin High 1-B sadly enough due to the stigma. Hence, why I focused on the other 2-3 high 1-B feats
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it should be enought considering that during their first fight it was stated that alduin was at his best, he then 1 shot paarthurnax and the Dragonborn then went ahead and beat Alduin, which then caused alduin to run away to devour souls. AND THEN the dragonborn beat him again finally killing him.
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- #49
Agree 100% but I sense that at least one person will vehemently disagree with Alduin being High 1-B during the events of Skyrim lol
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it really depends on what myth is being used
U can use the one that states alduin eats Mundus and that would grant him and the rest the H1B
or The myth of him eating Nirn which is basically a multiverse (dont know if it would be 2B, 2A or even 1C tho, cus of the whole, Higher dimensions, Lyg inside nirn etc.)
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- #51
It’s far more consistent that he eats the entirety of Mundus due to him being the “time eater” and time being a concept relative to the entire Mundus. Both the sermons and Divayth fyr suggest the entire Mundus go through the cycle. Couple that with the quote from above with Alduin being a threat to the constellations, then yea.
Why does Alduin get so much skeptism on here though? He’s like the only major deity that gets this much flak
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I personally have no idea, even outside they say he was weaker on skyrim (even tho that is never mentioned or hinted at and is literally contradicted)
XSOULOFCINDERX
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If anything he gets stronger during Skyrim since I'm almost 100% positive that him consuming souls in Sovengarde is mentioned to be an amp for him and not just something to heal with.
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He's also the only the major deity we have seen getting his ass kicked, on-screen.
Hence it created an impression within everyone that he was not at his full power when he was in Skyrim.
His power ranking is also kinda vague within the official lores tbf...
But in the Kirkbride lore, I believe he is on the top. Because the Leaper Demon King outright called him "the first and the last spirit", which heavily implies that Alduin would consumes every single deities in existence in the End-Time, to begin the new kalpa, where he would be the "first spirit" again.
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Also his Redguard version Satakal eats all the Gods too.
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huh... I always imagine Satakal being it's own thing.
Do we have any confirmation that Satakal being Alduin's Redguard alternative?
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- #57
Satakal isn’t Alduin. It’s a metaphor for the Aurbis, a fusion of Anu and Padomay. If it is an entity in of itself then it’s different from Alduin who’s an aspect of Aka.
But
Alduin does wipe out his own pantheon apparently :
“Eventually, the animal-totem gods transformed into the eight gods we worship today. We call them by their true names: Alduin, Kyne, Mara, Dibella, Stuhn, Jhunal, Orkey, and Shor. We understand that our gods are as cyclical as the world itself, so we also remember the Dead Gods (Shor and Tsun) who fought and died to bring about the current world, the Hearth Gods (Kyne, Mara, Dibella, Stuhn, and Jhunal) who watch over the present cycle, and the Twilight God (Alduin) who ushers in the next cycle.”
LazerDim8000
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I’m glad we have a content revision and discussion thread to talk about this lol.
LazerDim8000
Username Only- 606
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You could really argue they can. Slipstream realms where their BFR’d targets are sent to is virtually inaccessible even to mehrune, the mechanisms behind the BFR involves
piercing through this realm where transliminal forces that were rampant in the dawn era converge
LazerDim8000
Username Only- 606
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Just tanking dawn magic+manipulating the stubborn forces where the realms of oblivion converge+becoming second strongest ysmir+ just existing and fighting in sovngarde is more than enough for at least 1b imo.
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I have that same thought when it comes to Alduin’s regeneration. Every other god has high godly from scaling to Daedric princess including Dagoth Ur and characters like Vivec when he is weakened. His fellow gods could just up and die while they were similarly weakened too. Remember 2 of the 3 tribunal die and never return in Morrowind’s dlc. Yet Alduin is the major deity of a pantheon and doesn’t get it. The only reason I can think of is because their soul is around and they don’t come back, but their immortality was negated, that was the whole reason they died in the first place.
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- #62
Yea when you analyze the Dovahkiin’s feats, it’s hard for him not to be high 1-B because there’s just so much there
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- #63
Spoiler alert
I hope we can get profiles for the Star orphans they’re OP asf from the leaks. Especially one for Mnemoli/MEMORY since she appears in c0Da
I hope we can get profiles for the Star orphans they’re OP asf from the leaks. Especially one for Mnemoli/MEMORY since she appears in c0Da
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what are the TLDR for the Star Orphans? I only remember them through some mentions of them from Vicn's Viglant triology mods
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Blue star has to do with prisonner, dragon breaks and narrative.
Cyan star is the calm period after dragon break and has to do with mystery, memory and the unknown
Green star is the feminine aspect of magic and exists everywhere and nowhere
Orange star scatters magikca across the newly created mundus
Yellow star taught her siblings about the world, blade and signs and was there to see Lyg and the rise of molag bal
Black star fought alongside lorkhan within alternate worlds and possiblities , witnessed how mehures dagon ended the reign of molag in lyg in the previous kalpa and how these 2 ended up in the next kalpa saw the wheel and its centre gone. She catalogs events across the kalpas
Red star witnessed the creation able to bind the dragon and bend its form
White star queen of unwritten fates revealed the duality of aka and lorkhan,
Cyan star is the calm period after dragon break and has to do with mystery, memory and the unknown
Green star is the feminine aspect of magic and exists everywhere and nowhere
Orange star scatters magikca across the newly created mundus
Yellow star taught her siblings about the world, blade and signs and was there to see Lyg and the rise of molag bal
Black star fought alongside lorkhan within alternate worlds and possiblities , witnessed how mehures dagon ended the reign of molag in lyg in the previous kalpa and how these 2 ended up in the next kalpa saw the wheel and its centre gone. She catalogs events across the kalpas
Red star witnessed the creation able to bind the dragon and bend its form
White star queen of unwritten fates revealed the duality of aka and lorkhan,
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well well well, these fellas range from at least 1-A to high 1-A it seems, thems some strong gals right there.
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I mean when we consider other things as well its really in your face.
Consider this, the amulate of kings which is the blood of lorkhan combined with that of akatosh/anuiel which is basically a good ol combo of light and dark aka the balance of mundus and the power of that amulate was able to hand molag bal his own ass in his own realm.
The last Dovakhin the last ysmir is exactly the same thing just on a different wave length as the incarnation of ysmir he is a shezarine aka the incarnation of shazar also known as lorkhan and as the dovakhin he is also directly linked to and powered by dragon souls which are the essence of akatosh or how he is known originally anuiel
The last dovakhin is quite literally a living amulate of kings and an avatar of mundu in a way since they are the combination of both lorkhan and anuiel.
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- #68
Yea, especially Iana Lor to which the entire Aurbis spins by her will. Seems we need to upgrade Magnus too. We also fight the “White star” in the new chapter coming up.
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- #69
Man oh man. To think at one point people were putting the Dovahkiin up against the likes of Goku or Beerus on here is crazy lol.
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thats the one that I am most intrigued by because the statements of the tower and the duality of sithis and anui-el are pretty damn big
High 1-A and dipping toes into tier 0 level big and I wanna see what its about.
Oh yeah and magnus is getting a pretty massive boost from this too which is interesting since I always thought that he should be the current strongest "sapient" god as he is basically the avatar of the dreamer and all.
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the moment a single word leave his lips its a done deal.
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I meant to comment earlier but I actually really don’t think the Dovahkiin should be tier 1 nor scale to Alduin. It’s strange to say but while the Dovahkiin has some feats he also drowning in anti feats. Let me finishing writing out a massive comment I was making for why I think this.
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So I know I’ll get a lot of flak for this, but this is why I think Miraak and the Dragonborn (and any others like the Ebony Warrior (who is in and of himself an anti feat)) shouldn’t scale to Alduin.
Firstly Tsun is hilariously beyond the Dovahkiin at the time they slay Alduin. They sheerly do a little spar to test you and if you don’t play along he instantly kills you with zero difficulty once so ever. That already puts the Dovahkiin out of being anywhere close to the gods since the avatar of a lesser deity can kill them by doing anything, but it gets vastly worse for them.
The avatars of Daedric princes repeatedly dog the Dovahkiin with equally little difficulty. A half dead and weakened Barbas that is separated from Vile and has his power drained by Umbra is fully invincible to the Dovahkiin even as an avatar and can only be slain by Vile’s power. The avatar of Sheogorath can easily trap the Dovahkiin and do whatever they want to him. The avatars of Bal and Azura threaten the Dovahkiin and Bal can trap them with no chance of escape. Merida also views you as nothing even in comparison to her influence on Nirn (an avatar) and Boethiah views you lesser than her campions not even her avatar.
So pretty much every Daedric prince in the game repeatedly believes and proves you are literally nothing to them and even their avatars.
This is compounded a billion fold in the dlc. The avatar of Mora kills Miraak in a singular hit and completely obliterates him with nothing remaining. We know it’s the avatar because it the same him that appeared on Nirn and only a small influence of their avatars can go there normally. Hircine’s avatar could only be on nirn directly during the blood moon for example.
Speaking of Hircine’s avatar, they can curpstomp Karstaag (Karstaag in Morrowind was pretty much just a random dude, he’s compared to two regular human guys in power throughout the final part of the dlc) meanwhile Karstaag is canonically one of the Dovahkiin’s hardest fights. So add that to the massive pile of Dovahkiin not even being comparable to the avatar of Daedra or gods. Plus as that random dude (Falx Carius) Karstaag used to be compared to also was major boss battle for the Dovahkiin as well, despite them being absolutely defenseless against regular werewolves in the dlc. Massive outlier in the other direction, but more evidence that the game doesn’t compare you to the gods at all.
So overall the Dovahkiin doesn’t scale to Daedric princes in anyway shape or form even down to the slightest essences of their avatars. They are so hilariously far beyond them it hurts. They legitimately have over a dozen hard anti feats. Its not even like they barely lose, the slightest amounts of the avatars completely curpstomp them into the dirt.
Meanwhile Alduin is just directly stated to scare the crap out of Dagon and to be hilariously above him. Immediately placing him on par with Daedric princes at the height of their power.
Additionally Alduin can fight Shor and devour his entire pantheon of gods. Even the small amount of divine power in the amount of kings can stomp both Dagon and Bal much less a full deity like Shor.
It doesn’t make any sense to say Alduin has a weakened key, especially since he devoured a crap ton of souls before the Dragonborn got to him and he was throwing everything away to try and kill them. The only option left is that it’s clearly an outlier that they won. Whenever Alduin is written to interact with the gods he can do so just fine pretty much, while the Dovahkiin gets completely wrecked by even the lesser avatars.
Also one last piece of further reasoning for Dovahkiin being stuck at tier 2: the slight essence of the Idea Masters’ avatars (just some random crystals around the Soul Carin) can also instantaneously kill the Dovahkiin and their random bone champions are a major battle for them. The idea masters are currently low 1-C and honestly should be lower, and they place a hard limit on the Dovahkiin since they fully transcend them.
TLDR: Gods stomp the Dovahkiin every chance they get.
Firstly Tsun is hilariously beyond the Dovahkiin at the time they slay Alduin. They sheerly do a little spar to test you and if you don’t play along he instantly kills you with zero difficulty once so ever. That already puts the Dovahkiin out of being anywhere close to the gods since the avatar of a lesser deity can kill them by doing anything, but it gets vastly worse for them.
The avatars of Daedric princes repeatedly dog the Dovahkiin with equally little difficulty. A half dead and weakened Barbas that is separated from Vile and has his power drained by Umbra is fully invincible to the Dovahkiin even as an avatar and can only be slain by Vile’s power. The avatar of Sheogorath can easily trap the Dovahkiin and do whatever they want to him. The avatars of Bal and Azura threaten the Dovahkiin and Bal can trap them with no chance of escape. Merida also views you as nothing even in comparison to her influence on Nirn (an avatar) and Boethiah views you lesser than her campions not even her avatar.
So pretty much every Daedric prince in the game repeatedly believes and proves you are literally nothing to them and even their avatars.
This is compounded a billion fold in the dlc. The avatar of Mora kills Miraak in a singular hit and completely obliterates him with nothing remaining. We know it’s the avatar because it the same him that appeared on Nirn and only a small influence of their avatars can go there normally. Hircine’s avatar could only be on nirn directly during the blood moon for example.
Speaking of Hircine’s avatar, they can curpstomp Karstaag (Karstaag in Morrowind was pretty much just a random dude, he’s compared to two regular human guys in power throughout the final part of the dlc) meanwhile Karstaag is canonically one of the Dovahkiin’s hardest fights. So add that to the massive pile of Dovahkiin not even being comparable to the avatar of Daedra or gods. Plus as that random dude (Falx Carius) Karstaag used to be compared to also was major boss battle for the Dovahkiin as well, despite them being absolutely defenseless against regular werewolves in the dlc. Massive outlier in the other direction, but more evidence that the game doesn’t compare you to the gods at all.
So overall the Dovahkiin doesn’t scale to Daedric princes in anyway shape or form even down to the slightest essences of their avatars. They are so hilariously far beyond them it hurts. They legitimately have over a dozen hard anti feats. Its not even like they barely lose, the slightest amounts of the avatars completely curpstomp them into the dirt.
Meanwhile Alduin is just directly stated to scare the crap out of Dagon and to be hilariously above him. Immediately placing him on par with Daedric princes at the height of their power.
Additionally Alduin can fight Shor and devour his entire pantheon of gods. Even the small amount of divine power in the amount of kings can stomp both Dagon and Bal much less a full deity like Shor.
It doesn’t make any sense to say Alduin has a weakened key, especially since he devoured a crap ton of souls before the Dragonborn got to him and he was throwing everything away to try and kill them. The only option left is that it’s clearly an outlier that they won. Whenever Alduin is written to interact with the gods he can do so just fine pretty much, while the Dovahkiin gets completely wrecked by even the lesser avatars.
Also one last piece of further reasoning for Dovahkiin being stuck at tier 2: the slight essence of the Idea Masters’ avatars (just some random crystals around the Soul Carin) can also instantaneously kill the Dovahkiin and their random bone champions are a major battle for them. The idea masters are currently low 1-C and honestly should be lower, and they place a hard limit on the Dovahkiin since they fully transcend them.
TLDR: Gods stomp the Dovahkiin every chance they get.
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If Tsun is so though why does he need the Dragonborn to fight Alduin?
Clavicus Vile says that the Dovahkiin is almost as powerful as he is, and thats the early game Dovahkiin.
Massive headcanon. Its not an avatar they were literally in Apocrypha and Miraak was weakened. The whole point of Dovahkiin going to Moras realm to stop Miraak is because Mora couldn't do it himself.
Karstaag is only tough for gameplay reasons. He sucks in lore.
No, he scales above their true power.
TLDR, the Gods are fodder to Dovahkiin.
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Alduin is immortal and superior to Shor. That’s two pretty big reasons he couldn’t fight him.
The half dead Vile that is so weak he’s stuck in a single cave as an avatar and has half his power lost as it’s in barbas. And even with that he’s still invincible to the Dovahkiin at any section of the game and is required to kill Barbas.
Mora literally says and does the exact opposite. He says Miraak is a stupid idiot that is nothing in comparison to him and one hit kills him. It’s shown to be the same avatar he used outside the realm and even assuming it’s his true self that still means Mora > Miraak by a massive degree as Miraak is fully obliterated by the hit. Miraak couldn’t have been too weakened as he had just absorbed dragon souls to regain his strength. At least not weak enough to literally be dusted by Mora’s love tap.
That also doesn’t address Bal trapping you in a house with his influence, Sheogorath doing something similar, and meridia casually treating you and calling you worthless.
The half dead Vile that is so weak he’s stuck in a single cave as an avatar and has half his power lost as it’s in barbas. And even with that he’s still invincible to the Dovahkiin at any section of the game and is required to kill Barbas.
Mora literally says and does the exact opposite. He says Miraak is a stupid idiot that is nothing in comparison to him and one hit kills him. It’s shown to be the same avatar he used outside the realm and even assuming it’s his true self that still means Mora > Miraak by a massive degree as Miraak is fully obliterated by the hit. Miraak couldn’t have been too weakened as he had just absorbed dragon souls to regain his strength. At least not weak enough to literally be dusted by Mora’s love tap.
That also doesn’t address Bal trapping you in a house with his influence, Sheogorath doing something similar, and meridia casually treating you and calling you worthless.
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1. You fight him no matter the choise and get passage, there is no "inta lose"
2. Vile already stated that he is as powerful as he is with no barbas.
3. That IS NOT an avatar, we ARE LITTERALLY inside his realm, the base of his power.
4. Gameplay Karstaag is hard, contrary to his lore conterpart.
Overall your arguments just seem to sound as "Well I don't believe is possible for him to be this strong"
We know alduin was never weakened since his moment of helgen to fighjting the Dragonborn on the mountain, he even stated he was stronger. A stronger alduin was DEFEATED on the mountain and had to run away from the dragonborn.
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If you try to walk by him you instantly die and he specifically tells you he’s just testing you.
Again Vile is actually going against your point. That’s an avatar of Vile that is dying and had his power drained by Umbra, then was weakened again by losing Barbas. It’s literally the opposite of a feat.
Even assuming it is the avatar it kills Miraak beyond dead in one hit and tell you your trash. But it was shown to be the avatar earlier too. Their avatars can be used in their realms. Hiricine’s true self became an avatar at whim.
Again Vile is actually going against your point. That’s an avatar of Vile that is dying and had his power drained by Umbra, then was weakened again by losing Barbas. It’s literally the opposite of a feat.
Even assuming it is the avatar it kills Miraak beyond dead in one hit and tell you your trash. But it was shown to be the avatar earlier too. Their avatars can be used in their realms. Hiricine’s true self became an avatar at whim.
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