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The Black Swordsman vs. Yang (Rematch)

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As many have stated, healing isn't an issue due to the AP advantage that only increases over time.

Kiritos Analytical Prediction also seems moot due to Yang having similar if not better feats so again ill ask, what is Kirito's win condition?
 
MrKerf said:
The manga pages showcase her struggling against ONE person who’s just alternating between left and right swings. I do not doubt Melanie’s skills, but Yang’s Analytical prediction is not superior to Kirito’s.
Also, most inexperienced fighters died of at the start of SAO, he fought at least an intermediate lvl fighters

Bruuuh. Just add it to her keys and attack, no it doesn’t. Higher implies higher in her tier, not up to next one.

She consistently struggles against character faster then her, has problems employing strategy over brute force and most of her experience and skill are against Grimm, not humans.

Surprisingly, that wasn’t my point. I was meant to showcase how she’d lose against a character that is superior to her in speed. Which Kirito is.
And Neon got distracted, it was more of a plot/gag anyway, can’t let Neon Cat win.

Anyyyways, if people are not convinced, perhaps we should switch it to last key Kirito? Or Post Aincrad/Post Goblin Fight Kirito?
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1. The manga depicts her absolutely trashing said person so badly that she could grab her legs mid kick without even looking in her direction and body her immediately after. Said person has trained her entire life as an assassin meant to kill Huntsman, yet a middle school Yang was still able to body her without much difficulty. In the Yellow trailer, she bodied both said person AND her sister AND their boss immediately after AND destroyed the entire club with a single blow
2. Except Yang can multiply her AP to 8A mathematically due to how her semblance naturally works. She doesn't have a known limit, hence why the "Higher" rating is on her page, but the way it works is that it simpy stores all of the kinetic energy it absorbs from every attack taken, doubles it, and adds it onto Yang's AP, at least in V1-3. So yeah, technically she can reach 8A if Kirito hits her enough times
3. She bodied both twins, solo'd Flint and Neon, and defeeated Mercury, who could keep up with Pyrrha. That isn't exactly a weakness Kirito can exploit, especially since Kirito is the most generic swordsperson ever relative to most RWBY characters. He hasn't everdone anything that Yang hasn't seen before
4. Except he's not since speed is equalized for Dual Blades. Even if it wasn't, even if his speed is higher, none of his attacks can significantly harm Yang due to Aura, plus his movement speed and reaction speed isn't what's higher, it's just his attack speed (His attacks are faster, but his blocking and running speed are not). Meaning Yang won't have any trouble hitting him back. As for the Neon fight, Yang clashed with her for several seconds despite having her ears ****** by Flint, and had enough stamina to carpet bomb both of them and ruin Neon's rhythm. Sure the ending was a gag but everything leading up to that wasn't
5. Last key stomps due to being 8B, Post Goblin Fight gets stomped due to being 8C. The Night Sky Sword doesn't absorb physical hits plus none of his other haxes help him.
 
Blackcurrant91 said:
As many have stated, healing isn't an issue due to the AP advantage that only increases over time.

Kiritos Analytical Prediction also seems moot due to Yang having similar if not better feats so again ill ask, what is Kirito's win condition?
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double attack speed via dual blades, which is countered by aura so he basically just has nothing
 
Mickey1940 said:
2. Except Yang can multiply her AP to 8A mathematically due to how her semblance naturally works. She doesn't have a known limit, hence why the "Higher" rating is on her page, but the way it works is that it simpy stores all of the kinetic energy it absorbs from every attack taken, doubles it, and adds it onto Yang's AP, at least in V1-3. So yeah, technically she can reach 8A if Kirito hits her enough times
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Eeeeeeeh she does have a limit, its hard-capped by the damage threshold of her Aura, for this key low-end 8-A is the hard limit, as in they literally showed the exact number of blows Yang's Aura can withstand before breaking and measured her Aura level the entire time to back up that number.
 
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Mickey1940 said:
double attack speed via dual blades, which is countered by aura so he basically just has nothing
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Not only is it countered by Aura, but due to Dual Blades being his default state in this key it would be subject to speed equalization, meaning it wouldnt even grant a speed boost
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Eeeeeeeh she does have a limit, its hard-capped by the damage threshold of her Aura, for this key low-end 8-A is the hard limit, as in they literally showed the exact number of blows Yang's Aura can withstand before breaking and measured her Aura level the entire time to back up that number.
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She does have a limit but it's not known. All we know is that 7Cs like Adam basically negged it with raw force, so for all intents and purposes we don't know what that limit is besides just 7C
 
MrKerf said:
Anyyyways, if people are not convinced, perhaps we should switch it to last key Kirito? Or Post Aincrad/Post Goblin Fight Kirito?
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Sadly Alicization fight Kirito matches are dead in the ground because it is literally just “Reality Warp GGs”
 
Blackcurrant91 said:
As many have stated, healing isn't an issue due to the AP advantage that only increases over time.

Kiritos Analytical Prediction also seems moot due to Yang having similar if not better feats so again ill ask, what is Kirito's win condition?
Click to expand...
They already explained his Win Cons to you, twice. They just don't exactly agree with the points you're bringing up but I'll add that Kirito has a way to deal with projectiles with Spinning Shield.

Also, all this mention about Kirito being vastly underskilled or having worse analytical prediction is just vast downplay, it doesn't matter if the enemies he fought were NPCs, and your argument of "they're from a game that means they have to be less skilled by default!" holds no water whatsoever, especially when most of these enemies were unknown past floor 7 or 10.

I don't know how many times I have to say it but in normal PVP skills were not commonly used, I get that you (likely) only watched the anime but the source material which is widely agreed upon takes precedence over the anime rarely showcases Sword Skills in combat as the post motion delay made it a very hefty risk despite granting great Damage Buffs. Kirito just doesn't throw these out willy-nilly he assesses his opponent and their movements, especially if said opponent is human.

Also, I'd like to add that Kirito should be stronger than Yang in AP and speed ironically enough, not enough for a one-shot but Floor 75 Kirito at the end of the game was Level 96 and the boss they currently scale to for High 8-C was Floor 56 and we know that the level margin for bosses was 10 levels higher. So not only is Kirito 40 levels higher than that boss and 30 higher than the margin he's able to survive and block attacks from the 75th floor boss that one-shot some of the Clearers in its boss fight which keep in mind are also vastly higher than the Geocrawler.
 
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That's it from me though for the rest of the day, I'm still waiting for more votes.
 
Fezzih_007 said:
But It already hitted Grace, you don't need more votes.
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True!
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Yang stomps (ignore my first post lol)

Smth people are ignoring is that Yang can take dozens of 4.34 ton attacks without her Aura dropping to the red, Kirito is not even half one of those attacks. The question you need to ask yourself is whether (assuming you give Kirito the skill advantage here) he is skilled enough to land 100+ hits on her without getting grazed even once? Cuz he will get turned to pixels if her Burn even touches him at that point. If their skill is relative, she wins by pure attrition. If Yang is more skilled, she manhandles Kirito.

End of the day, unless Reki starts taking notes from Chinamen skill or gives Kirito Tensura hax for his next Progressive novel, Yang is not losing here at all.
 
CurrySenpai said:
They already explained his Win Cons to you, twice. They just don't exactly agree with the points you're bringing up but I'll add that Kirito has a way to deal with projectiles with Spinning Shield.
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The wincons you brought up have all been debunked by at least five people in this thread my guy, its not a matter of simply disagreeing, they have been repeatedly proven wrong.
CurrySenpai said:
Also, all this mention about Kirito being vastly underskilled or having worse analytical prediction is just vast downplay, it doesn't matter if the enemies he fought were NPCs, and your argument of "they're from a game that means they have to be less skilled by default!" holds no water whatsoever, especially when most of these enemies were unknown past floor 7 or 10.
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The argument isnt 'they're from a game that means they have to be less skilled by default', the argument is that almost all of the monsters and players he fought were consistently shown in their fights to be amateurs at absolute best, and he has far less experience fighting them. Kirito spent 2 years fighting almost exclusively amateur opponents, Yang spent 10+ years fighting opponents on her level of skill up to and including other world-class fighters.
CurrySenpai said:
Also, I'd like to add that Kirito should be stronger than Yang in AP and speed ironically enough, not enough for a one-shot but Floor 75 Kirito at the end of the game was Level 96 and the boss they currently scale to for High 8-C was Floor 56 and we know that the level margin for bosses was 10 levels higher. So not only is Kirito 40 levels higher than that boss and 30 higher than the margin he's able to survive and block attacks from the 75th floor boss that one-shot some of the Clearers in its boss fight which keep in mind are also vastly higher than the Geocrawler.
Click to expand...
Without numbers this cant really be argued viably, but even if he was slightly stronger than her it wouldnt make much of a difference in the long run as that would just charge her semblance faster.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Prblem is the arguments fhtat were originally FRAed have been thuroughly debunked, meaning the thread is no longer in Grace

Also there are currently five votes for Yang
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Dawg you can’t just say “they have been thoroughly debunked” because you think they were. The people who made said arguments do not agree and the way I see it they were not debunked in any thorough capacity it was just the same arguments regurgitated. Also it’s not your place to decide it’s no longer in Grace lol. We are at a 10-6 (or 7 if that one guy with the green profile votes FRA cause I didn’t see him officially vote yet)
 
CurrySenpai said:
Dawg you can’t just say “they have been thoroughly debunked” because you think they were. The people who made said arguments do not agree and the way I see it they were not debunked in any thorough capacity it was just the same arguments regurgitated. Also it’s not your place to decide it’s no longer in Grace lol. We are at a 10-6 (or 7 if that one guy with the green profile votes FRA cause I didn’t see him officially vote yet)
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That aint how it works chief. Forcing a thread through via vote counts based on arguments that have been disproven is against the rules
 
WeeklyBattles said:
The argument isnt 'they're from a game that means they have to be less skilled by default', the argument is that almost all of the monsters and players he fought were consistently shown in their fights to be amateurs at absolute best, and he has far less experience fighting them. Kirito spent 2 years fighting almost exclusively amateur opponents, Yang spent 10+ years fighting opponents on her level of skill up to and including other world-class fighters
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That's a complety different argument from above actually.
 
So again, to sum the arguments up here:

Yang's advantages:
  • Higher AP and Durability (4 tons vs above 2 Tons)
  • A full body forcefield that can withstand dozens of 4 ton attacks before going down, and would also protect Yang from Kirito's stun attack
  • An AP and Dura amp well beyond anything Kirito can withstand
  • Significantly more skill and experience (10+ years of formal combat training and fights against people on her skill level vs 2 years of fighting against amateurs while being severely overpowered in his own verse)
  • Greater physical strength (Class M vs Class 5)
  • Experience fighting and beating opponents faster than herself
  • Analytical prediction on par with or better than what Kirito has shown
  • Better ranged options
Kirito's advantages:
  • Healing items and slightly better regen
  • Possible slight speed advantage, though under speed equalization rules it would likely be equalized as it is his base speed in this key
 
WeeklyBattles said:
I would like you to list what reasoning you are FRAing if you would be so kind. Because it is currently agreed that the arguments for Kirito winning are effectively nonexistent.
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Big Dawg why does he have to? The entire point of FRA is that you acknowledge what people above you said and agree with their reasonings. Nothing more than that is needed lol.

Like he can if he wants but I don’t get why you want him to outside of just trying to invalidate our arguments or votes so Yang wins.
 
CurrySenpai said:
Big Dawg why does he have to? The entire point of FRA is that you acknowledge what people above you said and agree with their reasonings. Nothing more than that is needed lol.
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If he's FRAing then surely he can point out what he is actually FRAing. Surely its not just a blind vote without knowing what is being argued.
 
CurrySenpai said:
Dawg, this is exactly what I’m talking about. Kirito is much more tactical than this. He was one of the best clearers in Aincrad who helped out with its clearing. He had to be tactical and smart in order to prevent as many casualties as possible, especially given the unknown nature of bosses. He doesn’t run in screaming he tries his best to develop plans and be cunning.
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CurrySenpai said:
Not even temporary, it’s as long as he has dual blades and since we take characters when they’re at their peak this Kirito would have it the entire battle
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Scottycj256 said:
and you also provided basically no evidence for your case either stop
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Scottycj256 said:
its literally not on the profiles, you cannot use this
Click to expand...
 
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