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The Black Swordsman vs. Yang (Rematch)
- Thread starter CurrySenpai
- Start date
- Status
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,142
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Yeah, she has been training with her dad sense she was a kid and her dad is from "one of the best huntsman team to come from Beacon" and were Ozpins right hand people
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Both of them are High 8C
Neo thrashed her no difficulty
Mercury lost to her on purpose, and she didn't break his leg cuz both of his legs are prosthetic
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Mercury's profile is outdated, he scales to Neo in power
She still took a ton of hits from her without her aura going down
And yes she did break his leg, it was visibly bent the wrong way and in the next episode it opened with a scene of him repairing his broken leg
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- Thread starter
- #126
I don't see how I disproved it but I will humor you and address this point since it is the biggest one. He didn't go "unga bunga sword swing." The anime does not do this scene much justice but the entire time he is going "This guy knows my Dual Sword Skills, I need to attack with raw strength and abilities otherwise I'm gonna use one and he will block everything and just kill me." I also never said Sword Skills weren't telegraphed but they aren't if you see them for the first time. They were telegraphed in this instance because Heathcliff is literally the creator of the entire game, he knows them. The most Yang would see is a flashing sword and that'd be her only hint that a sword skill is coming. Kirito can do a lot without them, keep in mind Heathcliff has the Unique Skill "Holy Sword" which gives the user basically an impregnable defense. And once again, Heathcliff is not only the creator of the game but he's the leader of one of the high-ranking guilds and fought Kirito earlier. He knows how Kirito fights at this point so this is more a matchup of Heathcliff knowing what Kirito was gonna do and just took advantage of it.
Also this is a big emotional battle to free literally every single person from Aincrad, after a boss that wiped out 20+ people. His state of mind was not the best and it was just "Kill Heathcliff now and free everyone."
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yeah I know she scales to Neo in power. That's why he's stronger than Yang right
fair point, ig you can't exactly suppress your own weapon
She did? I thought she just like accidentally unscrewed somthing
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- Thread starter
- #128
I've given my points though and people have already voted, if they wanna change their minds they can but everything has been addressed and what happens next happens. 
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,142
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Given the fact he was using a screwdriver to fix his leg after they head back to base
I say she actually did some damage to him
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He scales to Neo and is stronger than yang normally, but during the fight she outright broke his aura and knocked the wind out of him when her semblance was active and maxed out from the beating he gave her. It's one of the main examples of her max damage cap in action.
I can post the scene when I get home but it audibly cracks and bends the wrong way and in the follow up scene he is repairing it and cinder tells him to fix his leg quickly
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- Thread starter
- #131
I gotta sleep anyways pals and gals so I will catch you in the A.M.
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My guy, again, a LOT of the arguments made in favor of Kirito have been outright proven false. The vast majority of votes for kirito atm should not be countedI've given my points though and people have already voted, if they wanna change their minds they can but everything has been addressed and what happens next happens.
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,142
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Yeah, I say redo the counts back to zero for fair play as we are STILL debating so it's not exactly fair to count votes when you are still debating tbh
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- Thread starter
- #134
This would be fair if there was new evidence to be debated upon, we’re just addressing old things that neither of us can agree on is right or wrong and once again is left to the people to decide. But I’m going to bed now so I will see what happens, tomorrow.
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What? A TON of new evidence has been brought up, and all of the evidence in favor of Kirito has once again been debunked by more people. A vote reset is more than fair here.
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May I ask what actual win condition people are FRAing here for Kirito? there is clearly still disagreement between supporters of both sides as to what either parties win condition would even be so any FRA votes are obviously invalid as such.
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,142
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Yeah, exactly
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 7,707
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I think that's It, but i din't vote for that trought.
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1. I know he was thinking that. The problem is, even though he wasn't using sword skills and was relying on pure swordplay alone, he was still bodied by Heathcliff, someone who is equally reliant on sword skills and outside of the game he's a middle aged programmer who doesn't know how to fight at all
2. They aren't if you see them for the first time. The problem is that Kirito's Sword Skills are a. too weak to damage her aura in any way, and b. spammable so Yang will easily recognize the patterns after just a few interactions since she's not stupid. She's played video games before as shown in V3, so she knows how they work
3. Kirito can't do shit without Sword Skills. The only thing he has going for him without them is his Kendo classes, which he quit as a young child, and this one video with Heathcliff, where he got completely bodied. Every other time he's fought, he's used his sword skills. Also, Heathcliff didn't even use any of his own sword skills to kill Kirito, further denting Kirito's cridibility as a good swordfighter
4. Except Heathcliff is an equally unskilled swordsman just like literally everyone else in this game. Everyone in the game is reliant on skills in order to do combat, which makes their moves telegraphed and more predictable.
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I explained his Analytical Prediction already
Yang getting angry will activate her semblance, which is BAD for Kirito, not good
Damage Boost isn't enough to break her aura
Healing Crystals are finite
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Better healing and Analytica Prediction
which the former is finite and the latter is false
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Healing doesn't seem like an issue due to stat amps eventually getting to the stage where she just one shots.
Yangs combat experience+Stat amps seem like a way better win condition here. How does Kirito even put her down fully?
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Not only is it finite, but its via items that Kirito has to actively stop fighting in order to use
And yeah, Yang also has Analytical Prediction, and has better feats of it
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,142
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Kirito: trying his best to avoid attacks while healing
Yang: just shoots any strange object in his hand away and keep attacking him
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This honestly seems like semi stompish for Yang.
MrKerf
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Good Lord, you’ve managed to argue for an additional 1,5 page? Damn.
Yeah, Kirito’s Analytical Prediction is better. He can fight and dodge a great number of opponents at once while Yang can barely predict alternating between left and right sides against single opponent (not even questioning if manga is canon, whatever).
Sparring with Ruby is a non-factor at all. We haven’t seen them fight and we don’t know a thing about those fights.
The 8-A argument is fun and all, but her page should mention it, akin to how every other character has “varies up to X via Y”.
Skill and experience… ugh. She was stomped by Neon the entire fight, who didn’t even do anything extreme, she was just faster and were using regular attacks. And Yang won only because Neon tripped over some rocks.
Yeah, Kirito’s Analytical Prediction is better. He can fight and dodge a great number of opponents at once while Yang can barely predict alternating between left and right sides against single opponent (not even questioning if manga is canon, whatever).
Sparring with Ruby is a non-factor at all. We haven’t seen them fight and we don’t know a thing about those fights.
The 8-A argument is fun and all, but her page should mention it, akin to how every other character has “varies up to X via Y”.
Skill and experience… ugh. She was stomped by Neon the entire fight, who didn’t even do anything extreme, she was just faster and were using regular attacks. And Yang won only because Neon tripped over some rocks.
Spinoirr
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Yeah, need a CRT for that because how her semblance works is on her profile. It's just her profile doesn't reflect how well her semblance works lol
Fezzih_007
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He have like, a bunch of forms of healing and regeneration.
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Dodging multiple inexperienced fighters vs dodging the attacks of two world class assassins fighting in tandem
Not really comparable
It kinda does already
Yes, Kirito has a few years of basic kendo training and at max 2 years of actual combat experience against actual opponents, and a good chunk of those wins were only due to him being absurdly over leveled in the game world he was in and the vast majority of people he fought being inexperienced fighters. Yang on the other hand has over a decade of both formal training and actual combat experience, and against people on par with her in strength and with actual skill of their own, with her training being at the hands of some o the most skilled fighters on the planet.
Weird way to dismiss Yang's ingenuity in that fight but alright. To clarify, yes, she tripped over rocks. Because of Yang's strategy. Yang destroyed the floor so Neon couldnt abuse her speed advantage and then used Flynt's own weapon against Neon, redirecting her into unstable ground so she would be constantly off balance and lost her footing, causing her to stumble and making her an easy target to oneshot with her semblance.
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Weeklys arguments are more convincing here to me.
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BTW, when i say that Kirito's skill is heavily outweighed by the fact that he is just absurdly overleveled for the world that he's in, this is the kind of thing i mean:
Mans is overleveled to the point that a group of normal players attacking him in tandem cant even hurt him, and he outright acknowledges that he can just oneshot most people ("you'll go orange", which is basically taking enough damage that youre in a near-death state in SAO). These types of people are the vast majority of opponents he has fought, literal fodder that cant do anything to him.
Mans is overleveled to the point that a group of normal players attacking him in tandem cant even hurt him, and he outright acknowledges that he can just oneshot most people ("you'll go orange", which is basically taking enough damage that youre in a near-death state in SAO). These types of people are the vast majority of opponents he has fought, literal fodder that cant do anything to him.
MrKerf
He/Him- 2,089
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The manga pages showcase her struggling against ONE person who’s just alternating between left and right swings. I do not doubt Melanie’s skills, but Yang’s Analytical prediction is not superior to Kirito’s.
Also, most inexperienced fighters died of at the start of SAO, he fought at least an intermediate lvl fighters
Bruuuh. Just add it to her keys and attack, no it doesn’t. Higher implies higher in her tier, not up to next one.
She consistently struggles against character faster then her, has problems employing strategy over brute force and most of her experience and skill are against Grimm, not humans.
Surprisingly, that wasn’t my point. I was meant to showcase how she’d lose against a character that is superior to her in speed. Which Kirito is.
And Neon got distracted, it was more of a plot/gag anyway, can’t let Neon Cat win.
Anyyyways, if people are not convinced, perhaps we should switch it to last key Kirito? Or Post Aincrad/Post Goblin Fight Kirito?
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Potions are finite and just passive regeneration isn't enough to stop Yang from killing him
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1. Mcscuse me I literally just explained why Kirito's is dogshit. Kirito's only feats are fighting SAO players and enemies, all of which rely exclusively on Skills, all of which are telegraphed. He has analytical prediction the same way a League of Legends Pro or a Beat Saber Bro has analytical prediction: He's seen the exact same thing so many times he can predict when they happen and how it works. Yang's fighting style is completely new to Kirito and not restricted to using Skills, plus all of her enemies don't use skills either.
2. Ruby blitzes people in character with her semblance and yet Yang can keep up with said semblance with sheer reaction time and skill
3. I explained Yang's durability in a previous comment
4. Once Yang activated her semblance she was able to fight toe to toe with Neon even whilst getting blasted by Flynt at the same time, plus Yang was the one who created those obstacles for Neon in the first place, ruining her rhythm and causing her to make additional mistakes, of which Yang exploited. Even before Neon tripped, Yang was still able to tag her and land several hits, then terraformed the ground with her explosives to mess Neon up.
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He wasn't dodging inexperienced fighters. The pic included as proof of his analytical prediction shows him fighting off some plant tentacle monsters, who have animalistic intelligence
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going orange means you've either killed someone or did something else equally bad. Killing more people means becoming a red player. Rosalia is green despite being a massive asshole because she has other players (orange players) do the killing for her while she watches
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