The Battle of the Strongest (Satoru Gojo vs Cirno) (0-7-0) (GRACE)

[Topaz404]

I dont care anymore lmao
Anyways
Ya know the deal here
Cirno is Tanned, and has Optional Equipment
Gojo is in the Shinjiku Showdown Arc key
Speed is equalized
SBA otherwise
Location is San Francisco, CA

The Strongest Ice Fairy: 0
The Strongest Sorcerer: 7 (NoisyPitta, Deidalius, Quibster, Mariogoods, C2 of Omegon, Doggo, V999)
I dont even know anymore (Incon): 0​

 

[noisyPitta]

What does Cirno have that could get past Infinity and what is her fighting style like?

 

[Topaz404]

She has some stuff that could potentially bypass Infinity, and since shes currently in her Tanned form, she has a slight edge in terms of AP. She does usually start out with Danmaku, but since Danmaku aint gonna be doing shit, she's probably going to try and freeze him with Cold Manip (she lowers the temperature around her), or just use Absolute Zero (with Freeze Sign: Minus K)

She isnt bound by any spell card rules, of course, but that may not matter

 

[Quibster]

Gojo isn’t getting past the Type 3 and 4 Immortality. His only option is to Incap it seems

 

[Topaz404]

Isnt the whole fairy resurrections thing supposed to happen at sunrise of a new day? I mean, either way, yeah, Gojo doesnt have a way to put her down permanently

 

[Deidalius]

Can Temperature manipulation bypass infinity?

 

[Topaz404]

I dont see how it wouldnt, tbh. She also has her Optional Equipment as well sooooo
I wonder if Spell Breaking Drug's Power Null is powerful enough to just be rid of Infinity

 

[Topaz404]

I will, however, restrict optional equipment if it ends up being too much

 

[Deidalius]

I don't know if Gojo will try to incapacitate first or if he even can.

He likely throws an invisible hollow purple at Cirno as a first move, Cirno respawns and uses her temperature manipulation or power null.

Cirno's versatility would let her bypass infinity before Gojo figures out a way to knock her out or incapacitate her without activating her respawn.

 

[Topaz404]

Yeahhhh, i dont think Infinity is going to save him from Absolute Zero temperatures

 

[Deidalius]

I want to hear a counter argument from a Gojo fan before I cast my vote.

 

[Topaz404]

Yeah same, lets let some counter arguments come in before the FRA train comes to run us all down

 

[Quibster]

 

[Deidalius]

 

[noisyPitta]

I want to hear a counter argument from a Gojo fan before I cast my vote.

Temperature manip in this way will definitely bypass infinity, but if it is a localised effect Gojo can just teleport out (unless the cold kills him before he can react, which I don't think it can.) Someone earlier established that she would just come back to life if killed by Hollow Purple, but would she resist Infinite Void? Even if Gojo killed her and she came back to life, he could then perma-stun her with Infinite Void, which he can use at least 5 times per day (possibly more). The stun effect of Infinite Void can be broken by taking damage but otherwise it lasts a long time, so I would argue that Gojo stunlocking her is a valid wincon, but it is a bit of a stretch.

 

[Deidalius]

How fast can Cirno try to freeze Gojo? Can he teleport out of being frozen? I feel like that's a deciding factor for this matchup.

 

[Topaz404]

Yeah, Gojo could stunlock her, though, incap rules state the fighter incapped has to be in that state for 24 hours, and i dont know if Gojo will be able to keep her locked in that state for that long

And when it comes to how long it would take, thats a great question. But looking at the spell card Freeze Sign: Minus K, it looks like she's freezing her bullets near instantly.
Video, for proof

 

[Deidalius]

Yeah, Gojo could stunlock her, though, incap rules state the fighter incapped has to be in that state for 24 hours, and i dont know if Gojo will be able to keep her locked in that state for that long

And when it comes to how long it would take, thats a great question. But looking at the spell card Freeze Sign: Minus K, it looks like she's freezing her bullets near instantly.
Video, for proof

I mean, there is a player right there and she hasn't insta-freezed her. I don't think Cirno could instantly freeze a human or Gojo.

 

[Topaz404]

I mean, there is a player right there and she hasn't insta-freezed her. I don't think Cirno could instantly freeze a human or Gojo.

Well, thats because, one, Cirno was going by the spell card rules, and two, she was just being a show-off. If her audience is dead, then whats the point?

And considering she's in her tanned key, she is way more powerful then in base

 

[Deidalius]

I'm still unconvinced she can instantly freeze people at absolute zero temperatures. She would be considered to be stronger if she really could and nothing other than assumptions says otherwise.

 

[Topaz404]

Yeah, fair enough. Ill concede that point
Though, Gojo is still at a bit of a race to find a way to incap or somehow kill Cirno before hypothermia gets the best of him. Sure, danmaku aint gonna do shit because of Infinity


Its literally gonna be
"Can Gojo kill Cirno before he freezes to death?"

 

[Deidalius]

I agree. Can Gojo even incapacitate Cirno for long enough to matter? I heard that Gojo's infinite information can put people in a comma. How true is that?

 

[Quibster]

I mean, there is a player right there and she hasn't insta-freezed her.

That's not how her Absolute Zero works at all. In that spell card, she's freezing her Ice Bullets to even lower temperatures via Absolute Zero, which cause them to violently explode into shards. This is only applicable on her Danmaku for now.

I mean, there is a player right there and she hasn't insta-freezed her. I don't think Cirno could instantly freeze a human or Gojo.

She can instantly fairies and projectiles. You're stretching a little there by saying she can't freeze even a human. Akyuu states that she can instantly freeze anything she touches, can instantly freeze frogs which remain frozen long enough for humans to find them, and has frozen the entirety of Misty Lake including the fish that live within it.

Cirno is also amped by Okina's power in her key for this match. There's no reason she shouldn't be able to in the first place.

How fast can Cirno try to freeze Gojo? Can he teleport out of being frozen? I feel like that's a deciding factor for this matchup.

Gojo incaps Cirno with Infinite Void and that's that. She can't be killed unless Gojo can bypass Type 3 and 4 Immortality, but she can be incapped.

Though, Gojo is still at a bit of a race to find a way to incap or somehow kill Cirno before hypothermia gets the best of him. Sure, danmaku aint gonna do shit because of Infinity

I doubt he'll be affected by extreme temperatures. He's able to stand in Jogo's domain, which is subject to extremely high temperatures, without so much as a sweat.

 

[Quibster]

Gojo using Limited Void is a way more clearcut wincon. Cirno has no solution to it at all, nor can she really harm Gojo. That said, Cirno can't be put down by Gojo either.

I'm voting Gojo sits on the bakafairy FRA for now.

 

[Topaz404]

Alright then, vote counted i guess. Lets see what others have to say

As a reminder, Cirno also has access to her optional stuff as well. Lets not neglect it

 

[Deidalius]

That's not how her Absolute Zero works at all. In that spell card, she's freezing her Ice Bullets to even lower temperatures via Absolute Zero, which cause them to violently explode into shards. This is only applicable on her Danmaku for now.

I see, so if she can only use Absolute zero on her danmaku it wouldn't bypass infinity directly.

She can instantly fairies and projectiles. You're stretching a little there by saying she can't freeze even a human. Akyuu states that she can instantly freeze anything she touches, can instantly freeze frogs which remain frozen long enough for humans to find them, and has frozen the entirety of Misty Lake including the fish that live within it.

Cirno is also amped by Okina's power in her key for this match. There's no reason she shouldn't be able to in the first place.

I should have been more specific, I am not doubting that Cirno can freeze a large amount of things. I meant to say that I don't think Cirno can freeze someone without touching or being near them. Even in the Great fairy wars game she needs to be close to an enemy to freeze them and her freezing abilities travel rather than being something that spawns on the opponent. I doubt she could bypass infinity with her coldness manipulation.
Even then, Gojo can probably teleport out of being encased in ice.

Alright then, vote counted i guess. Lets see what others have to say

As a reminder, Cirno also has access to her optional stuff as well. Lets not neglect it

I was going to say Gojo wins, but let's discuss her additional equipment before I cast my vote.

How many Player system cards can she use at once? Can she access all of those cards at the same time? Because it seems Cirno can only hold 5 cards at once. (I haven't played Hisotensoku, so I can't confirm)

 

[noisyPitta]

I agree. Can Gojo even incapacitate Cirno for long enough to matter? I heard that Gojo's infinite information can put people in a comma. How true is that?

Yeah its effect can range from temporary stun to long term coma to permanent braindead-ness. Unlimited Void has been used 3 times in the series, with the following results:

• Civilians exposed to it for 0.2 seconds were put into a vegetative state that took ~2 months of rehabilitation to recover from
• The special grade cursed spirits (mid-top of the verse in terms of power) were hit by the same 0.2 seconds and they were temporarily stunned, with the effect lasting ~5 minutes before it wore off. Gojo noted that dealing damage to them in this time would cause them to wake up
• When used against Jogo near the start of the series, he is exposed to the full effect of the domain and is completely stunlocked, unable to feel, see or move at all. We don't know how long this effect would have lasted since Gojo attacked him immediately after, but I can't imagine that effect would have broken too easily
• In his fight against Sukuna, he lands a hit with Unlimited Void and while he wasn't exposed to it for very long, Sukuna was rendered braindead for a few moments before he pulled some bullshit that isnt relevant to this argument.

Extrapolating from the 0.2 feat, if 0.2 seconds of a domain stunned a high tier opponent for 5 minutes, then 1 second of exposure would stun for 25 minutes, 10 seconds of exposure would stun for 250 minutes (4.1 hours) and 1 minute of exposure would stun for 25 hours. (Keeping in mind that we have no idea if the relationship between exposure time and stun time is so linear, feel free to debate this point)

Considering the fact that Gojo can use this multiple times per day, and he has at one point kept his domain open for at least 3-4 minutes (while the domain was under attack by an opposing domain, no less) I feel it is reasonable that he would be capable of keeping Cirno stunned for 24 hours.

It should also be noted that Cirno resists perception manipulation, so while she would be stunned by all this, she would at least be aware of what is happening to her. Potential for her to formulate a plan to break out? Not sure.

 

[Topaz404]

Cirno does have the Stopwatch in her arsenal when it comes to Optional Equipment, and its basically a replica of Sakuya's layered time stop. However, it is temporary (and probably has a cooldown), but either way- she has it

Would Infinity/Domain Expansion work under a time freeze?

 

[Deidalius]

Cirno does have the Stopwatch in her arsenal when it comes to Optional Equipment, and its basically a replica of Sakuya's layered time stop. However, it is temporary (and probably has a cooldown), but either way- she has it

Would Infinity/Domain Expansion work under a time freeze?

It is said that Gojo's ability controls spacetime. Maybe it can work during stopped time?

But if Cirno's time stop is layered, she would time stop Gojo either way.

 

[Topaz404]

Well, the Stopwatch is a replica of Sakuya's timestop, im pretty sure, and her timestop is layered- so maybe it could get Cirno the win if she uses it at a practical time

 

[Deidalius]

I see, how exactly does her optional equipment work? Does she use all the Player cards at all time or is there a limit to how many Player cards she can use?

 

[Topaz404]

I have no clue, i havent played Toku at all

 

[noisyPitta]

Domain Expansion would not work in stopped time, since we know it takes a minimum of 0.2 seconds to activate

 

[Topaz404]

So the question now is
Would Cirno use Stopwatch before Domain Expansion? Maybe

 

[noisyPitta]

Is this stopwatch something she leads with? Gojo is pretty liberal in his use of Domain Expansion but he doesn't lead with it unless he knows his opponent and deems it neccessary

 

[Topaz404]

That i would say.....no? She usually leads with her Danmaku or Cold/AZ stuff. I need to ask someone else if she does lead with it
But then again, she very well could

 

[Quibster]

Is this stopwatch something she leads with?

She leads with Perfect Freeze. Ice Manipulation and basically just Ice Danmaku.

 

[Deidalius]

Then who will use their trump cards first? I am leaning towards Gojo since he is smarter.

 

[noisyPitta]

Yeah with that ice attack that Cirno leads with, I think Gojo would see that she is a serious opponent, and it wouldn't take long before he opens his domain

 

[Deidalius]

I see, I don't think JJK has danmaku on the level of Cirno, so I'd believe he'd believe that.

I vote for Gojo.