The Battle of Gods

[Dragomer]

This is going better than i though.

Just wait till the staff get here.

Honestly if it's just another instance of the staff just deciding for everyone, i'm losing my shit.

 

[LordTracer]

That's why I'm trying to make sure we have a pretty sizable majority in agreement before getting staff

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Just try and get Matt or Sera here FUHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Dragomer]

Just try and get Matt or Sera here FUHAHAHAHAHAHA

They'll disagree, no one except three people will agree with their reasoning and then the CRT will be refused just because of that despite everyone else being okay with it.

Cause that's always what happens.

 

[LordTracer]

What reasoning?

Jk, but that does seem to be what happens all the time.

 

[Hiryu-Z]

I agree with Option 3

 

[LordTracer]

Dunno if I should count my own vote or not, but I could go for either option two or three.

 

[SuhSuhGuhSuhSuh]

I most agree with option 3

 

[LordTracer]

And now option three has the majority.

 

[SuhSuhGuhSuhSuh]

But let's be honest, this probably won't even be considered before being closed.

 

[AwkguyDB]

I agree with Ryu for Option 2. But regardless a 3-A Universe with Multiple Universal sized dimensions inside is just nonsense to me.

 

[PowerToScale]

I personally believe that option two seems the most accurate

 

[AwkguyDB]

And now option three has the majority.

5 on 5 now but let's see how this goes. It could go even worst than Goku, Jiren and Broly getting "Possibly" 2-C upgrades since basically everyone above BoG is getting a massive upgrade and the Low 2-C scaling chain becomes vastly ridiculous.

 

[SuhSuhGuhSuhSuh]

I personally think that they're even higher than that with their transformations and random multipliers they ass-pull. Because, despite what the wiki says, multipliers (for some reason) do allow them to jump tiers and in a way the wiki has already conceded to that fact.

 

[SuhSuhGuhSuhSuh]

That's a discussion for another day though.

 

[Dragomer]

And now option three has the majority.

5 on 5 now but let's see how this goes. It could go even worst than Goku, Jiren and Broly getting "Possibly" 2-C upgrades since basically everyone above BoG is getting a massive upgrade and the Low 2-C scaling chain becomes vastly ridiculous.

i doubt it since it was decided that the bar for 2-C in DBS was Champa + Beerus, only those possibly stronger than both or equal to them would get 'possibly 2-C'

 

[AwkguyDB]

I personally think that they're even higher than that with their transformations and random multipliers they ass-pull. Because, despite what the wiki says, multipliers (for some reason) do allow them to jump tiers and in a way the wiki has already conceded to that.

LOL yeah what with Half 2-C and all XD. Technically speaking, WITH A MIRACLE, if Dragon Ball gets a BoG 2-C upgrade then basically you would only need to be 1,000+ stronger than the characters who can perform this feat for 2-B. Lol 2-B RoF Goku????

 

[PowerToScale]

I think we should focus on getting the upgrade through first before creating hypothetical scaling chains and post BoG tiers. I don't want people and staff to just come in and only see 2-B and reject it without looking into the thread.

 

[AwkguyDB]

I think we should focus on getting the upgrade through first before creating hypothetical scaling chains and post BoG tiers. I don't want people and staff to just come in and only see 2-B and reject it without looking into the thread.

true that true that. So now we wait for the inevitable.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Just try and get Matt or Sera here FUHAHAHAHAHAHA

They'll disagree, no one except three people will agree with their reasoning and then the CRT will be refused just because of that despite everyone else being okay with it.
Cause that's always what happens.

Could relate to that. Similar thing nearly happened to 2-A Nasuverse. But the thread died out before a conclusion could be reached.

But as for the proposed revision, I'd say Option 3 is the most reasonable one here. There's even the statement "the universe will turn into a void" to back it up. Plus, the "3-A to Low 2-C jump" won't sound ridiculous with "just statements" reason anymore.

 

[ArmBill]

My vote goes to option 2

 

[LordTracer]

Atm, we overall have thirteen votes supporting BoG being above 3-A.

 

[Diinou_HotHead]

Atm, we overall have thirteen votes supporting BoG being above 3-A.

I mean, every Option proposed is to make BoG Arc Characters Tier 2, so...

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

No, turning it into a vacuum was only one statement amongst many "Hakai" and "Destroy" statements in relation to the Universe. The Empty Void is literally a singular statement.

This still doesn't prove Low 2-C, like at all.

The whole basis that the feat is only 3-A is based off of a single statement directly contradicted when Goku was confident he'd be able to do something about Infinite Zamasu if he had a Senzu, and directly confirmed with the appearance of Jiren.


Which is completely hypothetical on Goku's part, Goku's attacks did zero damage to Infinite Zamasu and Zeno was required to get rid of Infinite Zamasu.

Also, have you not read over the thread I linked above? The whole premise of the thread is that almost no fiction treats Universe Destruction as 3-A as we know it, especially when the whole Infinite Zamasu thing comes up.

There's significantly more in favour of Low 2-C than there is 3-A.

The part about treating all universal feats as Low 2-C was rejected so.

And even then, why're we taking "Turn to a void" as it is literally? We've been considering these play on words and detailed descriptors as nothing but that; fluff descriptors. Why is it that when one comes up amongst heavy Low 2-C Implications do we take that over everything else?

And not only that, prior there was no precident on how to treat Universes. There is now, as per discussed above.

Problem is nothing implies Low 2-C to begin with.

AND EVEN THEN! How in the world is the Physical Destruction of the Universe supposed to destroy all the Souls in the Afterlife when as we established, Goku and Co can't touch souls? This, like many others, can be explained if they were straight up Low 2-C and the destruction of the Universe would destroy them amongst all along the Timeline, not only their physical counterparts.

So assume that Goku would be Low 2-C because he can destroy the Afterlife which has souls? That doesn't make any sense, destroying the afterlife doesn't correlate to destroying a space-time continuum.

 

[LordTracer]

Well yeah, I'm just trying to get an overall count of those in agreement.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

It was going to affect the Kaioshin realm which is a seperate space and it was going to affect the Demon realm which have statements of them being their own space-times.

No, the Kaioshin Realm and the Demon Realm are not separate space-times.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

> Except the Japanese definition of universe is Low 2-C, the mortal universe is stated to be a space-time continuum and the afterlife is the same size as it, and there's literally only a single statement that implies 3-A as opposed to Low 2-C/2-C.

The mortal universe is not it's own space-time continuum. Also a dictionary definition isn't evidence of a Low 2-C feat, it still has to be proven in the series.

> Except the mortal universe itself IS a space-time continuum and the Kaioshin realm is outside of the entire Universe 7 globe, not just the mortal universe.

No. Just because they appear separated on a map doesn't mean they're separate space-times.

Really, I've looked through quite a few threads and I haven't seen anyone go over the fact that Goku and Beerus destroying the Kaioshin realm would explicitly contradict one of the only two Tier 3 statements with this feat.

No it wouldn't, the Kaioshin Realm is not a separate space-time continuum.

 

[LordTracer]

"The mortal universe is not it's own space-time continuum. Also a dictionary definition isn't evidence of a Low 2-C feat, it still has to be proven in the series."

I gave a scan in the OP that proves it's a space-time continuum, actually.

"No. Just because they appear separated on a map doesn't mean they're separate space-times."

> I don't believe I said they were there? I just said that the mortal universe is a space-time continuum and the Kaioshin realm is outside of the entire U7 globe.

"No it wouldn't, the Kaioshin Realm is not a separate space-time continuum."

> That has nothing to do with the fact that the Kaioshin realm is outside of the universe and the statement says Goku and Beerus would only destroy what's inside the universe.

 

[PowerToScale]

It was going to affect the Kaioshin realm which is a seperate space and it was going to affect the Demon realm which have statements of them being their own space-times.

No, the Kaioshin Realm and the Demon Realm are not separate space-times.

The daizenshuu clearly states that the demon realm is in it's own dimension and does not share the same space as "our universe" and that that magic has a greater influence in the demon world than science which influences "our universes". Not only that but it also references an episode from Dragon ball where Goku actually travels to the demon world using the gate that was mentioned in the daizenshuu.

It's the same thing with the kaioshin realm, It is stated to be it's own dimension outside of the universe and is shown on the unverse map to be outside.

 

[Dragomer]

ShadowWarrior don't make multiple consecutive comments, do one big post, it make it easier to read and respond to (i'm not one to talk but i try at least)

 

[Lavcore]

it always starts like this the calm before the storm.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I gave a scan in the OP that proves it's a space-time continuum, actually.

It says nothing about it being its own space-time. What it says is that the mortal universe resembles ours as in it has planets, stars, and galaxies.

> I don't believe I said they were there? I just said that the mortal universe is a space-time continuum and the Kaioshin realm is outside of the entire U7 globe.

Then you're contradicting your own claims. If the Kaioshin Realm is not a separate space-time then why would that matter if it's outside the globe? The feat would still be 3-A.

> That has nothing to do with the fact that the Kaioshin realm is outside of the universe and the statement says Goku and Beerus would only destroy what's inside the universe.

Which is 3-A.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

The daizenshuu clearly states that the demon realm is in it's own dimension and does not share the same space as "our universe" and that that magic has a greater influence in the demon world than science which influences "our universes". Not only that but it also references an episode from Dragon ball where Goku actually travels to the demon world using the gate that was mentioned in the daizenshuu.

It's the same thing with the kaioshin realm, It is stated to be it's own dimension outside of the universe and is shown on the unverse map to be outside.

It's a difference space, but it's still in the same space-time. By outside the universe they mean outside of the mortal universe.

 

[LordTracer]

"It says nothing about it being its own space-time. What it says is that the mortal universe resembles ours as in it has planets, stars, and galaxies."

> Yes, the mortal universe resembles our universe. And our universe is a space-time continuum.

"Then you're contradicting your own claims. If the Kaioshin Realm is not a separate space-time then why would that matter if it's outside the globe? The feat would still be 3-A."

> It's not a contradiction at all. The contradiction is the 3-A statement itself, because Goku and Beerus cannot destroy everything inside the universe while also destroying the Kaioshin realm.

"Which is 3-A."

> A 3-A statement that is contradicted, yes.

 

[LordTracer]

"By outside the universe they mean outside of the mortal universe."

> No they don't, lol, the Kaioshin realm is shown on the Universe 7 map to be outside of the entire U7 globe.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

> Yes, the mortal universe resembles our universe. And our universe is a space-time continuum.

And the mortal universe is inside a space-time continuum that it shares with the other realms in Universe 7.

> It's not a contradiction at all. The contradiction is the 3-A statement itself, because Goku and Beerus cannot destroy everything inside the universe while also destroying the Kaioshin realm.

They can because the Kaioshin Realm is not its own independent space-time continuum.

> A 3-A statement that is contradicted, yes.

It's not contradicted when you haven't given sufficient evidence of the feat being Low 2-C in the first place.

 

[LordTracer]

"And the mortal universe is inside a space-time continuum that it shares with the other realms in Universe 7."

> Based on what, exactly?

"They can because the Kaioshin Realm is not its own independent space-time continuum."

> Again, that has nothing to do with the fact that they cannot destroy something outside of the entire U7 globe while being limited to the destruction of things inside the universe.

"It's not contradicted when you haven't given sufficient evidence of the feat being Low 2-C in the first place."

> You aren't understanding what I'm saying. Goku and Beerus being limited to only destroying what's inside the universe, as is what the statement says, is contradicted by them also destroying the Kaioshin realm that is outside the U7 globe. And if you believe there's insufficient evidence, I'm sure you could tell me how and why literally everything in the OP is incorrect, right?

 

[Theuser789]

I disagree with this because of Shadow's reasons

 

[DMB_1]

Btw, if this were to be accepted (I'm neutral on this thread btw), this could possibly upgrade Omega Shenron's Minus Energy Ball and Super Gogeta from GT.

No idea about manga scaling though.

 

[Ionliosite]

So this was reoppened?

Well, it wouldn't affect the manga, given the universe feat is over time there.