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A single bureaucrat, against 32 people who include many high-ranking staff isn't exactly fair, no? This isn't an appeal to popularity.IDK about SCP, but DontTalk does bring up some solid points and I think it'd be best to wait for what he thinks on the matter. Even if a lot of users agree with this and all, we don't appeal to popularity but to what's really most accurate for our purposes, and ignoring a bureaucrat that's very well versed on tier 1 standards goes against that.
We're not ignoring, and we're not only focusing on numbers. You say a "good portion" and assume people likely agree blindy, when all scp supporters are in agreement of this, and considering that a majority of votes are blind is bad-faith. And yet, many staff agree with it, and knowledgeable members such on tier 1, such as Ultima also agree with this.It is an appeal to popularity fallacy when you're focusing a lot on the numbers. A good portion of such members may just be blindly agreeing and whatnot after all.
Tier 1 is also an area even staff are known to be unsure on at times, and ignoring the user that did the foundations for how tier 1 works is far from a good idea.
For the record I think the fact a Marvel CRT went for months is unreasonable by itself, also iirc it was to gather evidence for the counter claim which as far as I can tell DT isn't doingLike recognise you're not doing shit like "Ima add SPC to 682", verses especially as expansive as SCP wouldn't resolve in a few days, hell we explicitly had given people a month to form arguments during the Marvel tiersplits.
This is supposed to be a CRT, not an ambush. Let thread opponents form arguments.
I understand the logic he was one of the main experts on 1-A and higher tiers he still is but I think people are so excited because what it represents for the verse the scp research team has been focused on this change for a long time often other CRTs have been left stranded for awhile and this was something that the team has been mentioning for awhile.I am mostly just careful regarding such high-tier revisions, and think that DontTalk's arguments seem to make sense.
There's something about one voice overpowering those of many people who are knowledgeable on the subject being discussed and others that find agreement in the things being said that just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.You cannot just overrule a bureaucrat. You need to try to convince him of your points or reach a compromise solution with him.
You're allowed to have faith in him, he wouldn't be in the position he's in if you didn't, but Ultima is a consultant regarding the tiering system himself and he agrees with these changes, why not put as much faith in him as you do DT?Also, I have strong faith in DontTalk in this area, so until he gives a go-ahead, it is not just one bureaucrat against this being applied yet, it is two.
Also for the record if a CRT took years to finish then something has gone terribly wrong.Some revisions in this community have taken years to finish. A few days or weeks is nothing. We are in no hurry here.
I am talking about finding knowledgeable people and waiting for them to finish preparing the revisions, and then eventually applying them.Also for the record if a CRT took years to finish then something has gone terribly wrong.
That is nothing out of the ordinary. Tier 0 revisions are a very sensitive issue, and I want us to be absolutely certain before we allow it.If a CRT has an overwhelming agreement from multiple staff and blue names it should frankly not take that long to finish, although I do want to put for the record that it's rather bizarre that from the start you pinged staff on mass on this thread after people here already agreed on it (Heck if I recall with Twin Peaks upgrade to tier 0 Ultima's say was enough there) so what's up with that?
So stalling basically, because for some reason I do not think forum vs debating is such a fine art that it takes several bloodly years to finishI am talking about finding knowledgeable people and waiting for them to finish preparing the revisions, and then eventually applying them.
So...That is nothing out of the ordinary. Tier 0 revisions are a very sensitive issue, and I want us to be absolutely certain before we allow it.
I do not remember how we handled the Twin Peaks revision, but several wrongs do not make a right.
No. I mean that it took years for me to get people to fix Naruto and Umineko/07th Expansion, for example, and it might take around 1.5 years until we have finished with our preparations for the DC Comics cosmology revision.So stalling basically, because for some reason I do not think forum vs debating is such a fine art that it takes several bloodly years to finish
I trust Ultima, but DontTalk is also extremely reliable. As I said, I just want to use safeguards so we are absolutely certain, and do not hastily rush things. That is all.So...
What's the wrong here?
Do you not trust Ultima or what, should we recheck Twin Peaks then?
No, it definitely is a very sensitive issue. We cannot rush out such extreme tiers. It would risk to turn our system far more unreliable than it currently is.Tier 0 is not a sensetive issue
DontTalk has very reliably helped me out to an extreme degree for over 6 years, and never had any slip-ups that I recall. Of course I hold him in extremely high regard. That doesn't mean that I have any distrust whatsoever for Ultima. Stop trying to use your new staff position to be subversive and instigate problems that never existed.it's just that we decided for some reason only 2 people's say matter on the topic and today for some reason you just hold one of their voices in higher regard then the other
...bro by that logic SCP did the bloody same, or does our work behind the scenes not count because interent verse that people always go "Haha we should nuke it"?No. I mean that it took years for me to get people to fix Naruto and Umineko/07th Expansion, for example, and it might take around 1.5 years of preparations until we have finished with our preparations for the DC Comics cosmology revision.
This's literally like a jump from 2 to 1, it ain't that extreme what?No, it definitely is a very sensitive issue. We cannot rush out such extreme tiers. It would risk to turn our system far more unreliable than it currently is.
I'm notDontTalk has very reliably helped me out to an extreme degree for over 6 years, and never had any slip-ups that I recall. Of course I hold him in extremely high regard. That doesn't mean that I have any distrust whatsoever for Ultima. Stop trying to use your new staff position to be subversive and instigate problems that never existed.
This is not the reason 95% of the people in this thread are upset. I'm sure most of us are pacient enough to wait to debate someone.Just give it some time, alright?
I am constantly jumping between different threads, and have problems remembering more complicated arguments to the point where I can reiterate them. That is all. It isn't a particularly big deal.Stop saying his arguments "make sense" to you when you can't describe what they are. The only way that statement could be justified is if you meant it to say "his arguments were in English, I speak that language", which obviously isn't what you meant at all.
No, I only think that uncontroversial threads should be accepted very quickly. A massive Marvel revision is not uncontroversial. Also, I want to split the scaling between different eras or cosmology-defining writers, not just blindly downgrade things. Reliability is what I am aiming for, not bias.Bro plenty of standards informing threads have been rushed to shit. If you saw a CRT downgrading top tiers in marvel to tier 2 or something you'd try and get that done as fast as you could.
That is another unfair personal attack. I have a very long list of verses that I dislike that I have favoured, and verses that I really like that I have disfavoured, during revisions. You can check my wiki user page if you do not believe me.The only thing you actually believe should dictate the length of threads are your poorly justified personal biases when it comes to philosophies, verses and people. Poorly justified might be too much credit though since you never really justify them with the exception of verses you dislike.
I am trying my best to keep track, but there is recurrently too much work to properly do so in a continuously focused manner. I usually firmly believe in delegating evaluations to people who have greater expertise in a given area than I do though.How can you ever really determine how many slip ups a tiers person has had though? You frequently admit to not understanding whatever they are talking about, your assessment of their competence is based on how many big words they use and how much they suit your personal biases when it comes to precedence between them. That's not to say either of them isn't competent but Christ, you don't even see DT win debates because there's a prejudiced and insincere duration given to arguments he's in.
I did not say that the Twin Peaks revision was wrong. I said that I do not remember the specifics anymore, but if it actually was rushed, as Tllmbrg claims, two wrongs do not make a right in this regard.So why are these right while the Twin Peaks thread was wrong?
Okay. I suppose that I messed up in how I worded things then. I am constantly very tired and busy, and am not perfect and slip up at times. I am working very hard to be helpful in general though.This is not the reason 95% of the people in this thread are upset. I'm sure most of us are pacient enough to wait to debate someone.
The issue came from a sentiment of elitism, with many having the impression that if Don'tTalk simply said no then the CRT is ******. The, frankly speaking, outrage came from Ant's rushed comments in this thread, which made it seem like a purple name could just shut down any number of people below them, other staff included.
Hopefully things calm down now, but comments like this do not help. Stop misrepresenting people to build your own narrative.
Okay. So I messed up again then. At least it only happens sporadically.We can afford time and space for DontTalk to respond with his argument without saying that DT's position and knowledge means he can't be wrong or overruled by a strong enough argument with a lot of support, and without derailing the thread or accusing staff of actively instigating trouble.
Threads shouldn't go on for months, yeah, but this started on Friday and it's Monday, and it's a big thread. It's gonna take a little bit and arguments should be heard out before things go through. I would say it's very disingenuous to paint the arguments here as people trying to rush this, though, when they're really just taking issue with Ant's conduct and approach to arguments involving DT; as Crimson said, Ant very much gives the impression that this thread will ride or die on DT's approval alone, which is complete and utter horseshit.
If this is aimed at me, I am not misrepresenting people. I am aware of everything you wrote in your comment. But only scrolling a few comments above, I can see a few people getting restless to get this CRT accepted because there is already some staff support for it, and that those few were not interested in waiting for some more time, given their comments of "we'll wait for only one more day" and "you're stalling the thread". My comment is aimed at them.Stop misrepresenting people to build your own narrative.
I'll ask again in case you missed it, do you have any opinions of the crt itself?If this is aimed at me, I am not misrepresenting people. I am aware of everything you wrote in your comment. But only scrolling a few comments above, I can see a few people getting restless to get this CRT accepted because there is already some staff support for it, and that those few were not interested in waiting for some more time, given their comments of "we'll wait for only one more day" and "you're stalling the thread". My comment is aimed at them.
I am drawing the line here. Any further comments on this derail will be deleted.
no lmao, he's only here for damage controlI'll ask again in case you missed it, do you have any opinions of the crt itself?
I am not siding with any arguments because I don't know the verse. I haven't read the thread either and I don't give a damn who is right.