THAT SCP Revision (Yes, it's High 1-A)

[Tllmbrg]

By the way if you don’t believe this SCP-3125 which comes from there is like a physical entity so

SCP-3125 (Code is 55555)
“Description: SCP-3125 is an extremely large (see full Θ'-dimensional fractal topology, attachment 13), highly aggressive anomalous metastasized meme complex originating externally to our reality and now partially intersecting it.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

@DontTalkDT

Perhaps your response to the above arguments is neccessary for us to continue.

 

[Rabbit2002]

I agree with "almost" everything here LOL
Minus "few" things and I'll tell later
And the Noosphere's Aleph infinities exist entirely in physical reality in the form of abstract concepts that govern reality (esophysicial) or physical objects/creatures. Everything that exists in the noosphere has their own version of physical reality in each universe, they act as physical shadows/manifestations of the real concept in the noosphere

Spoiler

Dir. Genevieve: I direct the Essophysics Department, which you all well know is concerned with embodiments — manifestations of concepts within reality. An embodiment of the concept "red" would carry all of the characteristics conceptually associated with that color, such as being angry, or desirable, or malevolent. This is a simplified method of conceptualizing what's actually going on here; a tangible object or entity embodies a memetic structure within the Noosphere by conforming to its idealistic ideatic shape.

<PHMD nods along. O5-8 and Dir. Gears share a glance of confusion.>

Dir. Genevieve: Simply put, an embodiment is a physical item that's shaped like an idea. And, given the progression of human intelligence and development, over time, that shape can change. This means that, if the essophysical nature of an entity is not readily apparent, it can be discerned by comparing that entity's change over time to changes in human conception and ideatic space; a correlation almost certainly indicates causation.

Spoiler

Regardless, The Essophysics Department is dedicated to the study of entities which embody certain universal concepts, such as Time, Science, and in the case of SCP-4260, Death. Old cultures referred to them as gods, which is a bit of a misnomer; we call them Intrinsics. Gods are reality-bending entities, usually with their own agendas and identities. Intrinsics are concepts which cannot be separated from our cosmos without us living in a radically different world. They’re more concept than entity, and rarely take any sort of physical form. SCP-4260 is somewhat of an anomaly in that regard.

Spoiler

Rs. Rainer: If anyone infected with those things were able to access the Noosphere, that would mean they'd have total access to every single human on the planet.

Dr. Jeane: And because they're a parasite—

Rs. Aaron: They'd be able to infect everyone else.

Rs. Rainer: But could they, though? Would it work in the same way?

Dr. Jeane: No, it wouldn't be physical. But then again, perception is literal reality. If those parasites were altering the human consciousness to believe that they were infected—

Rs. Aaron: Then their bodies would think that as well.

 

[Guardian_Doge]

an embodiment of the concept "red"

Taylor Swift???
Anyway, love this upgrade, beautiful, agree fully.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I'm stressing this for the third time. Can we please not discuss tiering until we prove the Noosphere is 1-A.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Let's stay focused so we can wrap this up in a timely manner

 

[Pepsiman25th]

Agree for me
if this actually happens, i dont care im doing swann vs writer

 

[Lawiegg]

Whats the counter argument again?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

We have overwhelming support for the thread including 4 mods, one of whom is a tiers consultant, against one disagreement.

If DT doesn't have any further rebuttals and if no one else wants to oppose this upgrade, is it safe to move on?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

We have overwhelming support for the thread including 4 mods, one of whom is a tiers consultant, against one disagreement.

If DT doesn't have any further rebuttals and if no one else wants to oppose this upgrade, is it safe to move on?

probably

 

[Lawiegg]

probably

Thats not reassuring enough

 

[Rabbit2002]

We have overwhelming support for the thread including 4 mods, one of whom is a tiers consultant, against one disagreement.

If DT doesn't have any further rebuttals and if no one else wants to oppose this upgrade, is it safe to move on?

Sorry if this is ungrateful. But as SCP reader for years, I have so many problems with rest of CRT (except Aleph infinities and 963). Include
1/ SCP-3000 does not require an EC key, because the SCP/tales that claims it to be the Serpent's brother is SCP-4840, written by the same original author of SCP-3000 (Djkaktus). So we only need two keys, avatar and true form.
2/ SK and the brother death scale to the Noosphere is damn vague, it's simply a random battle of the gods, not the Apocalypse in When it came home where Brother death fought SK. There are dozens of good reasons and scp/tales that the gods scale to the Noosphere and even narrative, I won't provide them here for obvious reasons (not necessary and too long, at least for now. But if anyone wants to, I can provide).
3/ And from what we have in SCP-6747, Swann's cosmology is completely different from that of 3812 (if it isn't recton), it's not even really infinitely differences between fiction and reality as our wiki request. So maybe swan not scale above 5800 to become H1A, only 2747 and 3812 (the later maybe "possibly 0") True authors is just higher layer being than swan (I could provided confirmed quote if you want)
4/ Why SCP-3125 and any other infospheric entities scale to SCP-5800's entities instead of scale Massively Above? SCP-5800 isn't trully Infosphere, it literally just Noospheric subspace (aka part of Noosphere which in turn very, very small part of Infosphere) and it is nothing but mini version of Infosphere in Noosphere. There is statement SCP-3125 see 5800 as a whole nothing but tool/key to interact with reality

 

[Tllmbrg]

2/ SK and the brother death scale to the Noosphere is damn vague, it's simply a random battle of the gods, not the Apocalypse in When it came home where Brother death fought SK. There are dozens of good reasons and scp/tales that the gods scale to the Noosphere and even narrative, I won't provide them here for obvious reasons (not necessary and too long, at least for now. But if anyone wants to, I can provide).

What?
I legit can not tell if you claim SK scales to Noosphere or not but just in case you don't I'm fairly certain the battle against TDB shook all of reality including the Noosphere

3/ And from what we have in SCP-6747, Swann's cosmology is completely different from that of 3812 (if it isn't recton), it's not even really infinitely differences between fiction and reality as our wiki request. So maybe swan not scale above 5800 to become H1A, only 2747 and 3812 (the later maybe "possibly 0") True authors is just higher layer being than swan (I could provided confirmed quote if you want)

????
Swan is Swan, unless you claim that 5800 is in the higher narrative (Which we just know isn't true) Swan is just above it

4/ Why SCP-3125 and any other infospheric entities scale to SCP-5800's entities instead of scale Massively Above? SCP-5800 isn't trully Infosphere, it literally just Noospheric subspace (aka part of Noosphere which in turn very, very small part of Infosphere) and it is nothing but mini version of Infosphere in Noosphere. There is statement SCP-3125 see 5800 as a whole nothing but tool/key to interact with reality

We're not discussing this and I'm fairly sure this doesn't change much scaling wise
Although I'm confused where you get the info that it being a part of the infosphere suddenly makes 3125 uber upscale from it

 

[Darksmash]

it's not even really infinitely differences between fiction and reality as our wiki request.

??? What makes you say that?

 

[Rabbit2002]

What?
I legit can not tell if you claim SK scales to Noosphere or not but just in case you don't I'm fairly certain the battle against TDB shook all of reality including the Noosphere

They can scale to it for Tons of reasons. But why is it because the one thing mentioned without any meaning is the Battle of TBD and SK? If you've read that story, you'll know the difference. A battle where all mortals and gods, demons, and angels in and out of the multiverse fight each other to the death =/= battle where a random guy has nightmares and the Serpent is perfectly fine (in battle TBD, he fought from the very beginning and was torn in half)

????
Swan is Swan, unless you claim that 5800 is in the higher narrative (Which we just know isn't true) Swan is just above it

I don't know if I have a memory glitch or don't know. But literally, within SCP-6500 something was sent into the Noosphere and it killed one instance of Swan itself, also statement 3125 threat to Omniverse and swan themselves, orginal article. Even if it's above 5800, it's still not H1A because of 6747's cosmology. And SCP-6500 and 6747 are all the same authors, canon with OG43, Blank and CAST, 5500...as OP suggested.

We're not discussing this and I'm fairly sure this doesn't change much scaling wise
Although I'm confused where you get the info that it being a part of the infosphere suddenly makes 3125 uber upscale from it

This

Spoiler

O5-5: But God? God will cleanse this fetid world. This forsaken universe is a sin, and we will be born anew in God's glorious dazzling light. It's not a fantasy, Sean. It's not even a reality. It is so, so, so much more than that and beyond. It's an escape. And we have the KEY to bring it here.

Dr. Reemus: Key? Are you talking about SCP-5800?

O5-5: When you cut the arm off of a starfish, what happens?

Dr. Reemus: What? I don't… it grows back, right?

O5-5: You have to know, God's omnipresence expands above all the worlds in every universe. We thought we could keep it out by obliterating the very idea of God's existence, and it didn't even work! We tried to excise it from the very abyss in our heads. We tried so damn hard to cut it out. But like a starfish, it grew back. You can't stop it. God is here to bring us what we deserve.

Dr. Reemus: With all due respect, Overseer, you're insane.

O5-5: What, you thought we could just lock the DOOR and throw away the KEY? It was always there. We put God on the other side of the DOOR and pretended that everything was alright even though it wasn't. It never was. But we can still try to bring it here, Reemus. Deep down in the moist music and the- the orgasmic smoke of your heart's mind, you know that it's true. We already have the KEY, and we know what the DOOR is.

 

[Rabbit2002]

??? What makes you say that?

Because swan's narrative ladder isn't really what it seam to be. It's just narrative layers that the higher you go, the less control you have on lower layer. For example, the entity in the 1001st layer only controls 1/1000 of the 1000th layer and the rest depend narrative's own laws and so on
I ask you, is this enough for H1A regardless of whether each layer is 1A+ or not? At least it's not related to 3812 because they're different. Although they are the same metafiction/pataphysic hriecharies, 6747 is the Higher/lower narrative dimensions, while 3812 is the higher/lower metaphysical dimensions.
This is the author's explanation, it won't contradict if you read that scp
NOTE: Never mind. SCP-3812 and SCP-2747 still high-1A, possibly 0 if Noosphere's 1A+ content is accepted. I just have a problem with swan

Spoiler

okay, so assume 'universe', 'timeline', and 'storyline' are synonymous.

imagine an infinite hierarchy of layers of stories. in the bottom layer (the first narrative dimension) live all stories which are 100% fictional, ie. don't functionally exist outside the minds of entities in higher planes. Every event that happens in a 1-story corresponds to the imagination of some higher consious being. The layer one above, the second narrative dimension, hosts stories which are 1/2 fictional and 1/2 real; this means that these storylines are actually parallel universes with 'real' stuff happening in them1. This means that, on average, any given character in a 2-story is about 50% influenced by free will, and 50% influenced by authors in higher planes, which makes them inherently more dynamic than 1-dimensional 'flat' characters who do not have unique thought / agency. In 3-story, universes are 1/3 fictional and 2/3 real, which means they have less anomalous phenomena because it's a more physics-based universe, and they also have less control over the stories beneath them as pataphysical interaction, itself, is an anomaly that becomes less present as you travel up this infinite chain.
https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/forum/t-14272726/scp-6747 (page 4th)

 

[Darksmash]

Because swan's narrative ladder isn't really what it seam to be. It's just narrative layers that the higher you go, the less control you have on lower layer. For example, the entity in the 1001st layer only controls 1/1000 of the 1000th layer and the rest depend narrative's own laws and so on
I ask you, is this enough for H1A regardless of whether each layer is 1A+ or not? At least it's not related to 3812 because they're different.

It's just talking about the control they have over the lower narratives. Not whether they don't transcend them or not. It doesn't contradict anything for the tiers as they are defined by size, not the degree of ability the higher beings process to precisely control every aspect of reality. Besides, based on my understanding what 6747 exactly says is that for any given phenomenon in the current layer, the chance that it has been caused by higher entities is what changes as you travel up the stack, not whether the probability of an attempt to consciously manipulate the lower reality from the higher one will succeed or not. The footnote to that description even clarifies that free will doesn't exist(whatever that means). The narratives are ultimately created by higher entities and they still see them as fiction, all this is saying is that in a 50% real layer there would be 50% additional events outside the scope of the story(which makes sense considering they are full fledged realities).

Also 3812 is mentioned and linked in 6747 so it is very much related

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Rabbit can you make a separate thread please? These points are derailing the thread. We're not shifting the hierarchy, just adjusting everyone to new tiers.

 

[Rabbit2002]

Also 3812 is mentioned and linked in 6747 so it is very much related

It just vague mention, difficult to tell anything

Rabbit can you make a separate thread please? These points are derailing the thread. We're not shifting the hierarchy, just adjusting everyone to new tiers.

I mean there's still scp-3000 stuff. What I offer and suggest does not change the tier or whatever it is, just the key (true form key instead of EC key because same Author) and provides scan/scp as it is part of OP's request. You can use it, others I'm fine if they have their own place sometime.
Sincere apologies for the slightly rude attitude

 

[Lawiegg]

It just vague mention, difficult to tell anything

I mean there's still scp-3000 stuff. What I offer and suggest does not change the tier or whatever it is, just the key (true form key instead of EC key because same Author) and provides scan/scp as it is part of OP's request. You can use it, others I'm fine if they have their own place sometime.
Sincere apologies for the slightly rude attitude

No harm done
Just be more aware

 

[Sir_Ovens]

3000 is getting an EC key because it scales to an EC character that has it's scaling come from other EC characters. It does not matter if the same author stated they're siblings since the Serpent does not belong to him.

 

[Lawiegg]

So what now?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Give it a day, Ultima and Saikou aren't up and I'm about to sleep.

This should be when anyone with any objections chimes in. Otherwise, I think the revision can be applied when we all wake up.

 

[RALFdoang]

Even if it's above 5800, it's still not H1A because of 6747's cosmology. And SCP-6500 and 6747 are all the same authors, canon with OG43, Blank and CAST, 5500...as OP suggested.

I haven't read 6500, but 6747 don't have anti feats for Swann being H1A.

As i remember 6747 cosmology only explaining further how narrative work.
Place holder statement itself supporting swann for being H1A.

 

[Antvasima]

We have overwhelming support for the thread including 4 mods, one of whom is a tiers consultant, against one disagreement.

If DT doesn't have any further rebuttals and if no one else wants to oppose this upgrade, is it safe to move on?

Let's wait for a while. He is recurrently busy, and is one of our foremost experts regarding reliable tiering.

 

[InfiniteDay]

Let's wait for a while. He is recurrently busy, and is one of our foremost experts regarding reliable tiering.

Let's give him a day. In fact, i'll wait an entire day for any further rebuttal to the proposed tiering. If there is no further rebuttals, I can only assume nobody has a further rebuttal, and this thread can be applied. After all, there is currently only 1 disagreement, and that is DT.

 

[Antvasima]

DT is also a bureaucrat and one of our most knowledgeable members.

 

[InfiniteDay]

DT is also a bureaucrat and one of our most knowledgeable members.

I never denied that, however he is drastically outvoted and the agreements have more staff. However, if he or anybody else would like to continue the debate, go ahead. If not, this can just be applied.

 

[Antvasima]

You cannot just overrule a bureaucrat. You need to try to convince him of your points or reach a compromise solution with him.

 

[InfiniteDay]

You cannot just overrule a bureaucrat. You need to try to convince him of your points or reach a compromise solution with him.

So, your saying that 32 total agreements, which include 1 consultant, 3 administrators, 2 thread moderators and a content moderator, with all scp supporters 100% agreeing, are not enough to pass a crt when a single person who is bureaucrat disagrees.

 

[Antvasima]

I am saying that you cannot just ignore him regarding these types of important high-tier revisions, especially as I strongly trust his sense of judgement.

 

[Tllmbrg]

I am saying that you cannot just ignore him regarding these types of important high-tier revisions, especially as I strongly trust his sense of judgement.

So yes
Your answer is yes

 

[InfiniteDay]

I am saying that you cannot just ignore him regarding these types of important high-tier revisions, especially as I strongly trust his sense of judgement.

We are not. I completely allow him or anybody else to disagree and continue the debate. However, we can't just wait days for a single response. I am completely open to anybody responding, and if so, we will continue the crt until it is resolved or reaches a point like now.

 

[FinePoint]

We are not. I completely allow him or anybody else to disagree and continue the debate. However, we can't just wait days for a single response. I am completely open to anybody responding, and if so, we will continue the crt until it is resolved or reaches a point like now.

I don't see why you can't wait days.
It is not like the wiki is going to explode if SCP doesn't get upgraded within the week.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I don't see why you can't wait days.
It is not like the wiki is going to explode if SCP doesn't get upgraded within the week.

I mean I also don’t see why one person can halt a revision with overwhelming staff support

 

[InfiniteDay]

I don't see why you can't wait days.
It is not like the wiki is going to explode if SCP doesn't get upgraded within the week.

Maverick represents how I fell.
The reason why we aren't waiting days is because we'll literally accept any rebuttal of any kind, and this is a very important crt, so DT should definitely be responding to such a massive tier change. If he or anybody else can't respond today (or without giving any reason as to why, which is fine also) this thread should be applied due to overwhelming support.

 

[FinePoint]

I mean I also don’t see why one person can halt a revision with overwhelming staff support

Well-run establishments give this kind of authority to certain people.
I wouldn't enable x-ray on my Minecraft server even if all my admins wanted it.

But there hasn't even been a solid "no" given, the discussion is still going and all that's being asked is that time is given for DT to respond.
A few days on this kind of long-form forum isn't unreasonable in any sense.

 

[Antvasima]

DontTalk has a very busy real life schedule, and there is no great hurry here, especially as it is a very significant extremely high-tier upgrade. We need to make certain that everything is reliable before it is applied.

I would appreciate if we can avoid a spam argument regarding this. I do not have the available time and interest to participate in that kind of thing.

 

[Antvasima]

Well-run establishments give this kind of authority to certain people.
I wouldn't enable x-ray on my Minecraft server even if all my admins wanted it.

But there hasn't even been a solid "no" given, the discussion is still going and all that's being asked is that time is given for DT to respond.
A few days on this kind of long-form forum isn't unreasonable in any sense.

Exactly. Even if it takes a few weeks, that is not a long time by our standards either. We need to make certain that the changes are reliable.

 

[InfiniteDay]

Exactly. Even if it takes a few weeks, that is not a long time by our standards either. We need to make certain that the changes are reliable.

A few weeks? If he's gonna take a few weeks for such an important upgrade as this, he's gonna need to put in a notice of some kind. If it is gonna take longer than a day to respond to any of the points brought up, we should really be notified, or else we're just gonna think he's stonewalling. That being said, i'll message him and see when he can respond as to clear up this.