TF2 Downgrades Part 3

[Livinmeme]

a also this feat [1]

 

[WeeklyBattles]

a also this feat [1]

What are you referring to here? None of those feats would yield above 9-B and almost all of them involve the use of multiple explosives

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

All I see in that video are a bunch of people getting obliterate by grenades, again more 9-B sized explosions.

 

[Schwxnz]

May I ask how the 8-C feat is a game mechanic? Is it because Robots are normally >>> mercs?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think it was DMUA who said something about the robots getting vaporized seeming like a awkward game mechanic. Much like how shotguns vaporized enemies in other FPS's which made no sense.

 

[Schwxnz]

I believe that DMUA was referring to the Tank feat; saying that it's a game mechanic that the mercs don't get damaged by the explosion the Tank creates upon being destroyed.

 

[Genericstickman]

So downgrade everyone to 7-A? Also wouldn't Saxton scale to the higher weapons?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

9-A Saxton and Yeti is legit, and the weapons that do vaporize people being 9-A is also legit. But the mercs are physically portrayed as 9-B.

 

[Livinmeme]

Seriously the explosion of Demon should calc

 

[Livinmeme]

and the people oblitared are blue team who constantelly are potrayed like forrage

 

[Abstractions]

So downgrade everyone to 7-A? Also wouldn't Saxton scale to the higher weapons?

9-A Saxton is fine for different reasons, but I don't believe we should scale him to vaporizing weaponry based off an un-educated statement, as per what was discussed last thread.

 

[Livinmeme]

a also why almost every feat is in game the things than you say is like you as if trying to divert the subject on purpose

 

[Livinmeme]

ah also 5 feats 9-a

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We're mentioning scientific details of how the system works, getting vaporized is the exact opposite of a durability feat and it makes no sense to scale characters to things that vaporize them with ease. Again, no one has demonstrated 9-A levels of blunt force trauma.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Doesnt help that in Meet the Demmoman Scout got taken down by a blue Engineer's sentry

 

[Livinmeme]

Scout is a glass canon so no

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Physical glass cannons are not a thing + Game mechanic. Other wise, Scout dies the instant he punches someone since Newton's Third Law means durability has to be on par if not better than striking strength.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yknow, blue Heavy breaks down a metal door in Meet the Spy, if we can calc that we'd have a decent feat to scale Scout to seeing as Scout beat blue heavy to death

 

[Abstractions]

Yknow, blue Heavy breaks down a metal door in Meet the Spy, if we can calc that we'd have a decent feat to scale Scout to seeing as Scout beat blue heavy to death

Maybe, but BLU Heavy was also oneshot by a single Soldier rocket in "Meet the Soldier", it wouldn't be his best feat.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

From what i was told he was oneshot because it was a crit

 

[Abstractions]

From what i was told he was oneshot because it was a crit

Which we established doesn't exist outside of game mechanics, looking at the scene for itself doesn't even tell you that's what happened, there's no numbers or anything, just that Valve essentially filmed gameplay and used it for the video. That's hardly evidence for crits.

 

[Schwxnz]

I don't see why the scene has to explicitly tell you that said shot was a crit. If it behaves just like crits do in gameplay, then it was clearly a crit.

But I don't think that matters in regard to Scout being >> BLU Heavy.

 

[Abstractions]

I don't see why the scene has to explicitly tell you that said shot was a crit. If it behaves and looks just like crits do in gameplay, then it was clearly a crit.

Define how it behaves like a crit. All we see is him getting gibbed by the rocket.

Either way, attempting to use Meet the Soldier to justify the existence of critical hits would be dubious to say the least.

But I don't think that matters in regard to Scout being >> BLU Heavy.

No one is debating that, my argument is that being superior to BLU Heavy wouldn't be much of a feat by comparison given what we already have.

 

[Schwxnz]

Define how it behaves like a crit. All we see is him getting gibbed by the rocket.

You're right regarding BLU Heavy being killed by a normal rocket - my bad.

However the rocket which is shot at BLU Demoman behaves like a crit via looking exactly like one, having the same sound effect and being faster than the other rockets.

No one is debating that, my argument is that being superior to BLU Heavy wouldn't be much of a feat by comparison given what we already have.

That's true, however that doesn't really disregard BLU Heavy's feat in which he broke a metal door - something which the RED mercs easily scale above as even Scout (who is considered to be the weakest merc) defeated BLU Heavy handily.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Critical hits in games at best translate to a clean shot that hurts more due to catching them off guard or striking a weak point or opening the the targets armor; depending on how the weapon works or what kind of setting or style of a game it is. But it's not something too far different than regular attacks when trying to translate to the VS Battles system.

 

[CrackerVolley]

Ok, but the Kritzkreig and Crit Canteens kinda go around that point.

 

[Abstractions]

Crit Canteens are almost as invalid as crit resistance, unless you can show actual lore where critical hits are involved that don't come from gameplay like Meet the Soldier.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Meet the Soldier is gameplay?

Moreover, even if you do use that arguement, Meet the Soldier came out before the comics, and should be more canon than them.

 

[Abstractions]

Meet the Soldier is gameplay?

Moreover, even if you do use that arguement, Meet the Soldier came out before the comics, and should be more canon than them.

It has gameplay, yes, and I already said why using it as an argument for crits doesn't make sense.

 

[CrackerVolley]

There's also the fact that the shots that are ramdom crits or empowered by the Kritzkrieg have an electical glow to them (with the latter causing the weapon itself to glow with electricty).

 

[Abstractions]

"Random crits"

Most games have that, look at Pokemon, it doesn't mean we validate it as a crit.

Characters have an electrical glow when empowered by Uber which the Kritzkrieg (or Medic beams for that matter) provide.

 

[CrackerVolley]

No, Uber has the metallic glow. Kritz have have a standard "glow bright in color, crackling in electicity" thing.

 

[Abstractions]

No, Uber has the metallic glow. Kritz have have a standard "glow bright in color, crackling in electicity" thing.

Both glow with crackling electricity, one just applies itself to the character and the other doesn't.

 

[Livinmeme]

well someone can recap all feats 9-b

 

[WeeklyBattles]

At the moment we have three different rocket feats, Blue Heavy breaking down a steel door, pyro surviving an exploding building, probably a few others i forgot about too

 

[Livinmeme]

the feat of heavy was so freaking casual and blue team is considered forrage so only is a supporting feat

 

[Schwxnz]

Does Pyro not being far away from the blown up grenade crates matter in any way?

 

[Livinmeme]

someone give me the feat of pyro and the grenades

 

[Schwxnz]

1, 2, 3

 

[Livinmeme]

someone do a calc