TF2 Downgrades Part 3

[Schwxnz]

Saxton isn't necessarily crazy, he's just extremely overconfident.

Also he is definitely stronger than the mercs. In Jungle Inferno he casually one-shotted a Yeti, whom stomped Soldier, Pyro and Sniper in return.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Saxton is consistently stronger than them

 

[Abstractions]

Mercenaries cannot scale to vaporizing weapons because of the paradoxical nature behind the feat, it just simply isn't feasible because in order for them to be vaporized it would need to be much stronger than what they are capable of taking, if they can now tank this, then the weapon no longer actually serves its purpose as it would not vaporize them.

Attempting to address this by saying "expecting logic for a video game" adds nothing, logic doesn't just throw itself out the window whenever it suits us.

I've commented on this so many times in the past thread and it seems to just be glossed over by the sea of nothing.

Saxton isn't overconfident, he's just macho and eccentric, he also was getting his ass handed to him in the first Yeti encounter, but for some reason one-shots it the second time.

Blast resistance from MvM should be just that, it isn't even a standard durability enhancer, it only protects from explosive blasts and nothing else.

 

[Wokistan]

• Mercenaries cannot scale to vaporizing weapons because of the paradoxical nature behind the feat, it just simply isn't feasible because in order for them to be vaporized it would need to be much stronger than what they are capable of taking, if they can now tank this, then the weapon no longer actually serves its purpose as it would not vaporize them.

And yet we accept that the explosives can gib these characters despite not instantly killing them. I fail to see how this is difference.

• Attempting to address this by saying "expecting logic for a video game" adds nothing, logic doesn't just throw itself out the window whenever it suits us.

That wasn't the main point, that was somewhat of a joke.

• Blast resistance from MvM should be just that, it isn't even a standard durability enhancer, it only protects from explosive blasts and nothing else.

You can get resistances to all the types of damage though. Plus there's how you don't even need blast resistnance. Being a heavy with the dalokos bar and Fists of Steel can tank a sentry buster too.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The explosives were calced at 9-B, it gibbing them makes complete sense and has consistency shown to do so

 

[Wokistan]

It really wouldn't though. It is exactly the same thing, where a weapon deals bodily harm of a level implying that it would have to at least instantly kill and yet they do not. Tiering those weapons separate from the normal ones contradicts their actual function and is inaccurate. If anything, vaporizing with extra shots makes more sense, since heat isn't going to dissipate instantly so such a point can be built up to yet with the explosions if they aren't even dying from the first hit, they shouldn't have their parts sent flying from the third.

 

[Abstractions]

If you punch someone enough of course they will start to bleed and bruise, but you won't make them explode into a million pieces, comparing gibbing to vaporization is comparing apples to oranges.

You can, but they are all individually selective, if you have one, it doesn't enhance your durability in any other way, also keep in mind that you can resist crits which are game mechanics.

Fists of Steel also doubles the damage he takes from melee, and the Dalokohs bar operates off a game mechanic like overheal for that work.

 

[Wokistan]

• If you punch someone enough of course they will start to bleed and bruise, but you won't make them explode into a million pieces, comparing gibbing to vaporization is comparing apples to oranges.

You say, as you use explosion as an example.

• You can, but they are all individually selective, if you have one, it doesn't enhance your durability in any other way, also keep in mind that you can resist crits which are game mechanics.

FoS is just resistance to all ranged damage, and the Dalakos Bar is just extra health. Resistance to physical properties is durability. Crits are conditionally gameplay mechanics anyways. The Kritzkrieg and kritz canteens can't be said to just randomly not exist, and sniper and spy crits denoting headshots or backstabs for the spy knives are a thing too. Iirc people have critted in cinematics before anyways, so even regular random crits may be realer than thought, though I'd want to double check that.

This doesn't mean that FoS won't let you tank vaporization though. Dalokohs bar isn't actually overheal and is instead a max health increase, and idk why that even makes it unusable. Unlike with overwatch, we never got the lead writer to say that the game is totally irrelevant, so...

 

[Schwxnz]

Yes, Soldier got several crits in Meet the Soldier

 

[WeeklyBattles]

All im getting is that rockets have the potential to oneshot and going from the cinematics if they land near one of the mercs they are near lethal

 

[Abstractions]

If I said "separate them" instead of explode, it would be the same argument.

Resistance to physical properties, but also decreasing resistance to other physical properties at the same time, yes.

Backstabbing isn't something just for spies though, any character can kill with backstabs.

Just because that isn't the case doesn't mean we have to take everything in the game as gospel, otherwise Warframes will have shield-gating that always means they can tank things that one shot.

 

[Jackythejack]

Backstabbing isn't something just for spies though, any character can kill with backstabs.

Uh...no? Backstabbing is a special mechanic only spies have. You can OHKO a guy with a fire axe if you hit him in the back as a Pyro.

 

[Abstractions]

Uh...no? Backstabbing is a special mechanic only spies have. You can OHKO a guy with a fire axe if you hit him in the back as a Pyro.

I take that back, I just remember watching too many TF2 videos where other classes melee and frequently get fast kills that way.

Spies backstabs are being treated as a form of Acupuncture though, which we decided last thread, so it's not just "crits".

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Dargoo, I know you made a calculation for Scout's missile tanking, but I also did a revision right here. Do you prefer using yours or mine?

@All, it's already been established that there is a big difference between heat capacity and blunt force durability. For example, smashing a car is a Wall level feat, where as melting a car is an 8-C feat. Heat doesn't typically damage objects the same way force does and often times a plasma weapons despite having a higher AP calculation may be less effecting for destroying vehicles then a fragmentation weapon. It was generally agreed by Dargoo and Ugarik that heat/thermal based attacks shouldn't always scale to durability.

And, based on what Vaporization it. Cow Mangler doesn't just kill the mercs, it obliterates them. Scaling durability to something that's considered overkill is the exact opposite of a true durability feat. Also, unless it vaporizes them in oneshot, the 300 Megajoule calculation doesn't quite work. It doesn't quite vaporize them in oneshot them, but it's in awkward mechanics to just simply "Dealing massive damage initially, but then suddenly completely vaporize them after the next shot".

Plus, 95% of their weapons have blatantly 9-B calculations; this includes rockets, grenades, flame throwers, and sniper rifles. And a lot of those weapons are consistent in giving the mercs a lot of damage both in the cutscenes and in the game-play. Critical hits are game mechanics as are back stabs. Even Scout's Missile tanking feat is semi-inconsistent because it did leave him incapacitated and also kind of had a broken leg from one missile that wasn't even point blank to begin with.

Also, we already discussed the power scaling chain regarding Saxton Hale and Yeti; Saxton >>>>>>>>>>> Yeti >>>>>>>>>>>> All Mercs put together. It's a stomping chain in which Saxton often toys with everyone, and the Yeti solos and stomped all the Mercs. The mercs may have survived some casual strikes from the Yeti; Pyro was flattened, Soilder had his spine effortlessly broken, and everyone else was simply brushed aside. The Mercs shouldn't scale to either of them as they're all fodder next to them.

So 9-B physically and 9-A with Cow Mangler seems to be the suggestion. Though, the Mercs may have a noted heat resistance. Robot vaporization also seems like a weird game mechanics based on what I heard.

 

[Livinmeme]

nobody heard my arguments discredited arguments 9-b sad very sad not really why

 

[Livinmeme]

well there are several feats 9-a and the calculation about the explosion there is also another calculation based on the energy of a rpg 7 and the arguments that I ignore weekl

 

[Livinmeme]

there are currently more feats 9-A and 8-c than 9-b

 

[WeeklyBattles]

An RPG-7 is only 9-B, consistent with Soldier's in-game missile explosions being calced at 9-B

 

[Livinmeme]

well the explosion was calc 9-A 9-a is more consistent than 9-b

 

[WeeklyBattles]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:WeeklyBattles/TF2:_Rocket_Jumping

No, the explosion was calced at 9-B

 

[Livinmeme]

no there are other calc

 

[WeeklyBattles]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:DarkDragonMedeus/TF2_Missile_Tanking

The other calc was also 9-B

 

[Livinmeme]

you know that is farm more viable to take the calc of 3 people and 1 is for another than one who make the calc who suspeciosly is making the ctr to downgrade who ignore the point

 

[Livinmeme]

of me and another people

 

[Livinmeme]

no dont take it like a insult take it like we should debate about the other feats (who are not exactly small)

 

[Eficiente]

Can we skip into the part where the presumed information is shown?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

If there are other 9-A feats it would be good to post them

 

[Livinmeme]

tomorrow because i not only present the feats but debunk all the 9-b present the new estatics who should have the mercenary and the scale to merasmus

 

[WeeklyBattles]

They dont scale to Merasmus, how many times must this be said?

 

[Livinmeme]

and presumbly more

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Both the constant triple posting and constantly bringing up the god tier characters that literally stomp everyone and making loop holes to backwards scale need to be dropped.

 

[Livinmeme]

stomp other character dont mean than he will drop to 9-b that has not sense if i was wrong then we should to the bigger ctr than the wiki has see

 

[Genericstickman]

Wasn't their a clac for the Molten Sun On A Stick that put it at 9-A here somewhere?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Bump.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Still waiting for whatever livin has

Also i looked through all of the spells and none of them would yield above 9-B

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The only characters who physically exceed 9-B are Yeti and Saxton, everyone else is way weaker than them. And yes, all those other feats are just giving us more 9-B consistency.

 

[Schwxnz]

So, should we give the mercs an additional MvM key; which features every possible upgrade they can get? They'd be 9-A via scaling to this, which the mercs can survive granted they have blast protection as shown here.

 

[Livinmeme]

sorry my computer is pretty much dead so i dont know if i can do the wall of text i was planed

 

[Livinmeme]

a also mvm is far more consistent 8c+

 

[Livinmeme]

i am working in that