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TF2 Downgrades Part 3

Isn't that a gas explosion however, we don't scale durability based on chemical reacions like that nor do we use the standard explosion formula. We use this calculator for scaling durability to stuff like that. Which is just going to be another Wall level feat.
 
And most grenades are '''Wall level''' with the ones higher than that being made from other stuff. And the reason gas doesn't fully scale to durability the same way grenades and rockets do is because it's mostly heat and radiation than it is force. Grenades and rockets usually have a combination of both.
 
Some of the vaporizing weapons do as much damage as a normal rocket though. Why wouldn't that scale? It only vapes upon death usually.
 
i was trying to say that but every time i say that or other arguments someone who if i mencioned will probally be angry tend to avoid
 
It needs to vaporize in oneshot for the vaporization calculation to be legit, but at the same time; even if it did that. That would be an Anti-Durability feat. So it's a paradoxical loop hole to use that. Also, game mechanics for damage ratings isn't the most reliable.
 
But that is literally all we have. If nothing contradicts it then it is the most reliable. Also why does it need to one shot? No mass is shown to be lost in-game upon taking damage (where the vaporization happens.)
 
Because if it takes more than one blast to vaporize a human body, then it would have to be less than 300 Megajoules since it would either need to vaporize part of the body with each shot or heat the body up a fraction of a way to the boiling point. Also, heat resistance =/= blunt force trauma resistance. Been multiple discussions talking about that.

Unless we want to use the fact that bullets also consistently damage the mercs. And those same bullets still have no calcs exceeding 9-B. Most bullets are 9-C save sniper rifles, though bullets in TF2 have shattered skulls, which is a 9-B feat and has showings of being stronger than RL counterparts, but still nothing beyond that.
 
well the bullets are from are produced by a country like 3000 year adelanted so no also there a weapon who produce hits melee
 
yes nothing contradicte even if contradicte we had like 6 feats 9-a and two 8c

1.cow managler and other weapons

2.in the event of hallowen the character can shoot fireball who should had this force

3.merasmus created his castle.the place where figth than i not renember and a island and yes the mercenary should scale to merasmus he only stomp because

1.magic

2.inmortality and boost

3.bominomicon

4.with a uknown amount of piles or sticky the demoman can create this explosion

and other feats who also i dont renember but is more consistent 9-a than 9-b also the rocket launcher should scale to the cow managler or other desintegration weapon
 
Livinmeme said:
yes nothing contradicte even if contradicte we had like 6 feats 9-a and two 8c

1.cow managler and other weapons

2.in the event of hallowen the character can shoot fireball who should had this force

3.merasmus created his castle.the place where figth than i not renember and a island and yes the mercenary should scale to merasmus he only stomp because

1.magic

2.inmortality and boost

3.bominomicon

4.with a uknown amount of piles or sticky the demoman can create this explosion

and other feats who also i dont renember but is more consistent 9-a than 9-b also the rocket launcher should scale to the cow managler or other desintegration weapon
Click to expand...
1. Doesn't apply to Mercs as stated a bunch of times.

2. Don't use a calculation for DnD to justify TF2, they are completely different.

3. You physically need to prove that Merasmus created the castle or else that means nothing. Not that it would scale anyway, as it would only apply to his Magic, not physical durability, which is already vastly higher than the Mercs.

4. If you don't know how much he needed for it how do you plan to quantify it? It also wasn't a single explosion, there was chain reaction of explosions.
 
We shouldn't have to drag this out any further, we really should just apply the accepted changes.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Unless we want to use the fact that bullets also consistently damage the mercs. And those same bullets still have no calcs exceeding 9-B.
Click to expand...
That is not a valid point for downgrading a verse to 9-B.

However, yes, I suppose I agree - we should apply the accepted changes now. If feats that can upgrade them are found later on, we can make a CRT then.

--

So, RED Team is going to be Wall Level+.

I'm iffy on TFC, Heavy Weapons Guy (Team Fortress Classic) and Sniper (Team Fortress Classic) did hurt some of the mercs (Medic and Heavy for the TFC Heavy; Spy for the TFC Sniper) but everyone else got stomped, so they should just be possibly Wall Level+ via scaling to TFC Heavy and TFC Sniper. They should definitely be Wall Level though - they can tank grenades in-game. So Wall Level, possibly Wall Level+ sounds good for all the TFC mercs sans Heavy and Sniper, who are downright Wall Level+ (and in Heavy's case, At least Wall Level+ with the Life Extender Machine due to easily stomping RED Heavy). I am not sure what their speed statistics should look like though, as most of them likely don't scale to the mercs.

The MvM robots should probably be Small Building Level via upscaling from the mercs and being considered far stronger than them, however there is a problem about that: The mercs managed to defeat several robots in the comics (and in Soldier's case, he wrecked them alongside Zhanna). So, At least Wall Level+, possibly/likely Small Building Level might work?

The Sentry Buster is definitely Small Building Level as Drite calc'd its explosion at said level.

Not sure about the Horseless Headless Horseman and Monoculus, both of them can apparently one-shot any of the mercs. Is that enough for a Small Building Level rating, or should they also be At least Wall Level+, possibly/likely Small Building Level?

Saxton Hale is going to stay at Small Building Level, does an At least or Possibly/Likely higher rating sound good, given that nearly all of his feats are extremely casual?

Merasmus should likely be At least Small Building Level until we make a CRT regarding him being able to control the Carnival of Carnage with his magic.
 
Wall level+ feat was accepted, but that's just something he barely survived and the same Scout has been injured by stuff less than that in the same video.
 
Schwxnz said:
snip
Click to expand...
MvM robots would be 9-B+ from upscaling, we shouldn't grant tier jumps unless there's proof they are much, much stronger.

Yes, Sentry Buster is 9-A with a suicide explosion, that's fine.

Probably the latter.

I don't think we came to an agreement on the speed changes, are we keeping them or changing them?
 
Yes, if they one-shot, then a possibly rating should be fine.
 
Schwxnz said:
Alrighty, that does make sense. What's your stance on the stuff regarding Saxton and Merasmus?
Click to expand...
I'm fine with Saxton being 9-A as long as it doesn't involve scaling from vaporizing weapons.

Merasmus is fine at "9-A, possibly higher"
 
Saxton won't be scaled to the vaporizing weaponry, you already debunked that.

I was mostly wondering if it'd be okay to have him at "At least 9-A" / "9-A, possibly higher", as he performed the vast majority of his feats very casually.
 
Schwxnz said:
Saxton won't be scaled to the vaporizing weaponry, you already debunked that.

I was mostly wondering if it'd be okay to have him at "At least 9-A" / "9-A, possibly higher", as he performed the vast majority of his feats very casually.
Click to expand...
Saxton's ability varies, being casual to 9-B+ wouldn't give him an "At least 9-A" rating, all we have for that are his Yeti encounters, which are inconsistent.

In the first encounter, it's clear he's having issues with the Yeti and the last frame we see of him he's on the ground covered in scratches, we do know he wins and then gets it stuffed, but we can tell it wasn't all that easy.

In the second, he just one-punches it, which is vastly different from what he previously showed.

If it were up to me, sitting him at 9-A itself would be fine, but if others think he should get a "possibly higher" I wouldn't be completely opposed to it.
 
@Abstractions

Alright, thank you for your input - I appreciate it a lot. For reference, I personally believe that Saxton should indeed get a "possibly higher", however if I get outvoted on this, I will accept defeat.
 
the rocket jump soldier not damage to do it and was specefically to 10-B people to do it so no the explosion is weird scout was pretty harmed then suffer a explosion and he is in the ground renember trow a people in the ground is not a breaken point heavy runing to the door was casually and the blue team is normally protayed as forrage so no and the wall feat of saxton was so casuall to the point that did that feat only runing to the wall
 
Real life people =/= TF2 humans, verses like Undertale have 9-A children. You shouldn't equate reality to fiction that way.

I still don't understand why BLU team is considered fodder to the point of being many times weaker, yes, they are the punching bag of every video, but we have instances where BLU matches RED, such as Meet the Medic and when RED Scout seemingly died to a BLU Sentry.

The most you could get me to agree on is that BLU is obviously less skilled than REDs. but to suggest that regular 10-Bs can withstand rocket jumping when BLU Heavy, the most durable of the cast, dies to one rocket in Meet the Soldier breaks the scaling you are trying to go for, are we saying BLU is full of 10-Cs?
 
only two times is presented like a real threat so is far consintent the blue like forrage than a real treath also givme a feat also present a feat that present people in tf2 supperior to normal people also yes the blue team should be in the same tier to red team plus the rocket jump absorb some crazy impact so no
 
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