Team fortress Class AP issues(and Miss Pauling)

[DaReaperMan]

Team fortress... let's begin.

Classic Scaling.

All sources are from The Naked and the Dead and Old Wounds.(Although the ladder is only for Classic Pyro)

Now everyone in Classic scales to the Classic Sniper, who performed the two feats on his profile with his sniper rifle, and ended up getting one-shot by said sniper rifle, proving that he doesn't physically scale to it's AP.

now I know what your thinking, what about the Classic Pyro, who tortured Current Soldier? Well I'd say she, alongside Classic Heavy, is the exception, not the norm, also she got rekt'd by a bomb courtesy of Zhanna.

And as for proof that there's an issue scaling the majority of the Classic Team to the Current one physically, Zhanna one-shot not only Miss Pauling, but also Classic Demoman in one punch, the ladder being indirect. And Zhanna is comparable to Soldier.

There's also Classic Scout and Classic Soldier getting killed by Pyro in a fashion that Pyro possibly survived a blast of 0.06 tons, but that's moreso up in the air.

And now Classic Heavy. He's the best scaled of anyone, he did indeed thrash Current Medic, but he was getting completely thrashed by Current Heavy, which means the only thing that scales him to Current Heavy is not getting COMPLETELY stomped or one-shot by him, and actually taking headbutts and the like. LEM key is fine, obviously.

So yeah everyone but Classic Pyro and Classic Heavy need new feats for their physicals in line of the anti-feats, which we shall discuss here.

But wait, there's more!

Miss Pauling has... some frankly questionable scaling.

Attack Potency: We have apsolutely no idea how she beat the squad of BLU team, seeing as she had a pistol on her, chances are she just shot them. In fact all of her feats that I know of are with weaponry, so she's in the same spot as much of the Classic Team, no physical AP feats.

Durability: Pauling literally died from the punch Zhanna delivered her, or, its likely she did, Soldier is not exactly the most intelligent individual. Either way she was at least knocked out by the punch so... it's not usable.

TLDR: 7/9 of the Classic Team and Miss Pauling need new feats to justify any physical scaling to the Current Team.

Edit: Pyro's 0.06 tons tanking is invalid, 9-a has support of random folks rocket jumping(which is 0.001 tons), TFC mercs have 0.01 tons tanking feat, it should be the new scaling for Robot War TF2 mercs, and by new scaling, I mean a MASSIVE upscale due to Zhanna indirectly one-shottng classic demoman.

So Pauling gets just a solid 9-B physically with possibly 9-A with weaponry, and tiering for the rest stays the same, the justification just changes

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Seems reasonable.

 

[Maskofthedragon]

The only example for Pauling is even worse than that

We have absolutely no idea how she beat the squad of BLU team

She didn't even beat them, They were beaten to a pulp by RED and she's just "cleaning up"

 

[Eseseso]

As a TF2 fan I heartily agree with OP.

 

[TheGatememer]

Seems fine. Though I think the people you just mentioned can probably just scale to the 0.007 feat by Scout. The Classic mercs are noted to be far more dangerous than the Gravel War TF2 mercs.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Yeah but couldn't that just be because of them being more competent and taking their jobs seriously?

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Thanks for bringing this up, it was something long overdue!

 

[Eseseso]

Yeah I always thought Ms Pauling scaling to the mercenaries was sus

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Pauling shouldn't be extremely below them - I mean, Zhenda is very strong even among the mercs, from what I recall, and Pauling is competent enough for Sniper to take seriously, and she is good enough to at least help the mercs in fighting without being irrelevant, as we can see in cinematics such as Expiration Date.

However, I don't know if we can even properly tier her.

 

[Thelastmlg]

I think she can scale in speed, but physically i don't see a reason to scale her, she relies purely on weapons, at best she can scale to them via those

 

[EliminatorVenom]

I think she can scale in speed, but physically i don't see a reason to scale her, she relies purely on weapons, at best she can scale to them via those

Yeah, that seems reasonable. It's been a while since I last checked TF2 stuff though, so I might be missing something.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Seems fine. Though I think the people you just mentioned can probably just scale to the 0.007 feat by Scout. The Classic mercs are noted to be far more dangerous than the Gravel War TF2 mercs.

Eh, I don't think that's good scaling TBH, like another person said, it could've been just them being more competent, and we already know their weaponry scales to the Robot War mercs.

Pauling shouldn't be extremely below them - I mean, Zhenda is very strong even among the mercs, from what I recall, and Pauling is competent enough for Sniper to take seriously, and she is good enough to at least help the mercs in fighting without being irrelevant, as we can see in cinematics such as Expiration Date.

However, I don't know if we can even properly tier her.

Zhanna is very consistently shown to be comparable to Soldier throughout the Robot War, considering they're mostly doing the same shit throughout combat scenarios.

 

[Eseseso]

Zhanna is very consistently shown to be comparable to Soldier throughout the Robot War, considering they're mostly doing the same shit throughout combat scenarios.

I agree, which is why a while back I added on Soldier's profile that he is comparable if not slightly superior to a one handed Zhanna (I only put the possibly superior part since Zhanna was, well, one-handed), who one-shot Classic Demo.

 

[Shmooply]

Scaling her to the team's speed and her weapons to their AP seems fine. As for other stats, what about putting "Does many dangerous jobs for the Administrator, who let's her have only a single day-off in a year" as justification for her stamina?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Scaling her to the team's speed and her weapons to their AP seems fine. As for other stats, what about putting "Does many dangerous jobs for the Administrator, who let's her have only a single day-off in a year" as justification for her stamina?

Probably Peak Human, we haven't exactly seen her tire out ever, and she fought on the front lines of the Robot War, literally died twice, and still didn't seem at all tired even by the end of it

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Probably Peak Human, we haven't exactly seen her tire out ever, and she fought on the front lines of the Robot War, literally died twice, and still didn't seem at all tired even by the end of it

Agreed.

 

[TheGatememer]

Eh, I don't think that's good scaling TBH, like another person said, it could've been just them being more competent, and we already know their weaponry scales to the Robot War mercs.

Even normal humans can survive Rocket Jumping in the TF2 universe, so the TFC mercs would scale to that as well. I’ll provide some more examples when I have some more time, as it’s been awhile since I’ve gone through TF2 stuff.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Even normal humans can survive Rocket Jumping in the TF2 universe, so the TFC mercs would scale to that as well. I’ll provide some more examples when I have some more time, as it’s been awhile since I’ve gone through TF2 stuff.

Now that I need to see, cause if it's true then we have a good scaling point for the TFC mercs

Also found this, random 9-A feat for them

 

[TheGatememer]

Now that I need to see, cause if it's true then we have a good scaling point for the TFC mercs

Also found this, random 9-A feat for them

People regularly rocket jumped to get to the second floor, since stairs weren’t invented yet.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Just gonna leave this recalc of Pyro's building explosion feat here

 

[DaReaperMan]

Edited the OP with new scaling given in-thread

 

[Livinmeme]

Nah

 

[Livinmeme]

Oh also people regurally rocket jump, the fact that they die to it is just simply game balancing. Like you know every single Shooter...

 

[Livinmeme]

So... yeah using "they get oneshooted in gameplay" is not very good logic as by that, we would downgrade like 95% of shooter

 

[DaReaperMan]

If the shooter has no other sources of lore then yes, we will go by the gameplay for what scales and what doesn't, so if something one-shots in gameplay and never appears in lore and then proceeds contradicts the gameplay, then all we have to go off of is the gameplay. Hence why Vaporization/atomization weapons don't scale.

So I ask now, do detpacks one-shot? If so, we aren't scaling them, if not, I'd argue there's more consistency for 9-A than 8-C

And even then, 8-C is its own rabbit hole that'd require it's own CRT

 

[Livinmeme]

If the shooter has no other sources of lore then yes, we will go by the gameplay for what scales and what doesn't, so if something one-shots in gameplay and never appears in lore and then proceeds contradicts the gameplay, then all we have to go off of is the gameplay. Hence why Vaporization/atomization weapons don't scale.

So I ask now, do detpacks one-shot? If so, we aren't scaling them, if not, I'd argue there's more consistency for 9-A than 8-C

And even then, 8-C is its own rabbit hole that'd require it's own CRT

Nah blood, Duke nukem, Doom exists, and even then they scale to their weapon

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Nah blood, Duke nukem, Doom exists, and even then they scale to their weapon

Because they have proof. You would need proof of the Mercs withstanding that blast in-canon to argue its useable

 

[DaReaperMan]

Nah blood, Duke nukem, Doom exists, and even then they scale to their weapon

I'm like 99% sure all three of those people scale to their weapons in some way or another, I know beyond a Shadow of a doubt Doomguy does, Duke Nukem also can physically punch ******* who can tank his weapons to death, and I don't know what blood is but it's likely the same thing. They have proof.

 

[Livinmeme]

I'm like 99% sure all three of those people scale to their weapons in some way or another, I know beyond a Shadow of a doubt Doomguy does, Duke Nukem also can physically punch ******* who can tank his weapons to death, and I don't know what blood is but it's likely the same thing. They have proof.

Yeah.... Eh? In the game.... Most of those games punching those dudes to death is a death sentences, but yeah duke scale it (for other reasons but meh)

 

[Livinmeme]

Because they have proof. You would need proof of the Mercs withstanding that blast in-canon to argue its useable

Literally rocket jumping exists, is used even for fodder civilians. IT WAS CREATED TO USE FOR THE NORMAL PEOPLE

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah.... Eh? In the game.... Most of those games punching those dudes to death is a death sentences, but yeah duke scale it (for other reasons but meh)

Death sentence or not they physically damage them and take the KE of their own strike lol

Literally rocket jumping exists, is used even for fodder civilians. IT WAS CREATED TO USE FOR THE NORMAL PEOPLE

You literally are arguing stuff that's already accepted and not even being contested mate...

 

[Livinmeme]

Also we don't use gameplay durability to scale characters, that has alredy been rejected in a terraria CRT

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Literally rocket jumping exists, is used even for fodder civilians. IT WAS CREATED TO USE FOR THE NORMAL PEOPLE

My dude, the 8-C blast, not rockets. You need proof of them withstanding the Detpack

 

[Livinmeme]

Death sentence or not they physically damage them and take the KE of their own strike lol

Nah if you try to do it in both of those games, you die under half a second

You literally are arguing stuff that's already accepted and not even being contested mate...

Yeah... that is why i am saying that to weekly

 

[DaReaperMan]

Nah if you try to do it in both of those games, you die under half a second


Yeah... that is why i am saying that to weekly

Via multiple enemies gangbanging your ass with bullets, rockets, their own physical strikes ETC, point is its multiple hits for a kill.

He isn't even contesting it! Which post here was he contesting it???

 

[Livinmeme]

My dude, the 8-C blast, not rockets. You need proof of them withstanding the Detpack

Ah rip... got confused with the grenade calc

 

[Livinmeme]

Via multiple enemies gangbanging your ass with bullets, rockets, their own physical strikes ETC, point is its multiple hits for a kill.

He isn't even contesting it! Which post here was he contesting it???

That the gameplay durabiltity shouldn't be used? That is not used for pratically every genre as the real durability of the characters are often undreprsented in gameplay, as a way to not make the game piss easy

 

[DaReaperMan]

That the gameplay durabiltity shouldn't be used? That is not used for pratically every genre as the real durability of the characters are often undreprsented in gameplay, as a way to not make the game piss easy

I'm sorry what are you Smoking??? When did I say we use gameplay over lore?

If the shooter has no other sources of lore then yes, we will go by the gameplay for what scales and what doesn't, so if something one-shots in gameplay and never appears in lore and then proceeds contradicts the gameplay, then all we have to go off of is the gameplay. Hence why Vaporization/atomization weapons don't scale.

I said the literal opposite, but said that gameplay has to be used if said thing never appears in lore and contradicts gameplay.

 

[Livinmeme]

I'm sorry what are you Smoking??? When did I say we use gameplay over lore?

I said the literal opposite, but said that gameplay has to be used if said thing never appears in lore and contradicts gameplay.

What? No, i said that we shouldn't use gameplay in any way in this case, because

A. The game making the mercenary low in dura is just to make the game more interesting, as a battle of two guys who can kill each other really fast is more interesting than a battle against two guys chipping each other healths. That is not even a TF2 only things, that is a shooter things

I said the literal opposite, but said that gameplay has to be used if said thing never appears in lore and contradicts gameplay.

That has alredy been rejected in the terraria CRT

 

[DaReaperMan]

What? No, i said that we shouldn't use gameplay in any way in this case, because

A. The game making the mercenary low in dura is just to make the game more interesting, as a battle of two guys who can kill each other really fast is more interesting than a battle against two guys chipping each other healths. That is not even a TF2 only things, that is a shooter things


That has alredy been rejected in the terraria CRT

Mind proving that with a source? It's easy to say it's for balancing before turning around slowly, looking at guns being dangerous to the mercs 24/7, and turning back to it.