Team fortress Class AP issues(and Miss Pauling)

[DaReaperMan]

And, livin, before you even mention rocket jumping, off the top of my head it only deals like 40 damage to Soldier, nothing to ride home about.

And EVEN then, we have 3 rockets doing shit like nearly killing Scout, which actually lines up perfectly with what 120 damage would do to him in-game, so the health might be a little inaccurate, but it's certainly decently usable

 

[Abstractions]

Also found this, random 9-A feat for them

It appears to have been deleted (either the blog is gone or my comment is), but I calculated that to actually be 9-B awhile ago, it's about the perspective in the image.

The one I used showed how being up close actually changes the whole thing.

 

[DaReaperMan]

It appears to have been deleted (either the blog is gone or my comment is), but I calculated that to actually be 9-B awhile ago, it's about the perspective in the image.

The one I used showed how being up close actually changes the whole thing.

Hmmm, can you calculate it again for posterity?

 

[Livinmeme]

It appears to have been deleted (either the blog is gone or my comment is), but I calculated that to actually be 9-B awhile ago, it's about the perspective in the image.

The one I used showed how being up close actually changes the whole thing.

Oh yeah.... pretty sure that is because funny 2D explosions wankness, that are small or big depending on perserctive because they are literal JPG images plastered over a 3-D game

Playing so much Build engines games make you do that

 

[Abstractions]

Hmmm, can you calculate it again for posterity?

I could, yeah, it's just annoying for that to have disappeared out of nowhere.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I could, yeah, it's just annoying for that to have disappeared out of nowhere.

It really is, but still, back down to 0.007 tons I guess...

 

[Livinmeme]

It really is, but still, back down to 0.007 tons I guess...

There is a random literally out of nowher 8-A calc after this thread was posted, so that helps

 

[Abstractions]

Hmmm, can you calculate it again for posterity?

Here's the re-calculation.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Here's the re-calculation.

I'll get this checked and all that.

 

[Abstractions]

I'll get this checked and all that.

There's another image that uses the bridge shot as well, but still also gets 9-B results. I can also always re-calculate that one.

 

[DaReaperMan]

There's another image that uses the bridge shot as well, but still also gets 9-B results. I can also always re-calculate that one.

If you want to, sure, otherwise, I think the difference in blast is enough to give the OG calc a run for it's money

 

[Livinmeme]

Here's the re-calculation.

Again, i am pretty sure that the explosions heigth changes depending on perspective because 2.5D explosion garbage stuff

 

[Abstractions]

Again, i am pretty sure that the explosions heigth changes depending on perspective because 2.5D explosion garbage stuff

Yeah, but the point here is that the user is on the same plane and the target is practically next to it, so there isn't much room for perspective shenanigans. It's probably one of the most accurate results you can get.

 

[Livinmeme]

I thinki i pin pointed the problem.... The explosions have RANDOM SIZES

 

[Abstractions]

I thinki i pin pointed the problem.... The explosions have RANDOM SIZES

Even the first two explosions that go off have the exact same structure and animation, it's just how close the player is in perspective.

 

[Livinmeme]

Even the first two explosions that go off have the exact same structure and animation, it's just how close the player is in perspective.

No, both explosions in the same frame have different legth, a seconds further into a video there is a huge ass explosion pratically at in the player, so... no

There is also this i guess

 

[Abstractions]

No, both explosions in the same frame have different legth, a seconds further into a video there is a huge ass explosion pratically at in the player, so... no

 

[Livinmeme]

What... Both are the same video in different timeframes, like what

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Why does every TF2 thread always end up with the same circular arguments? Anyway, Abstractions calc looks good. ReaperMan also sounds reasonable.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Why does every TF2 thread always end up with the same circular arguments?

Top 10 battleboarding questions nobody can answer...

Do I have enough staff support to start applying things?

For the TLDR: most TFC mercs and Miss Pauling become 9-B physically and possibly 9-A with weaponry, the 0.06 tons calc is yeeted in exchange to making the mercs an upscale, two stomps(Heavy only), and a one-shot above 0.007 tons for 9-A, and additional proof for scaling to the 0.001 tons for 9-B TF2 mercs.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me.

 

[Diamond_Drone]

It appears to have been deleted (either the blog is gone or my comment is), but I calculated that to actually be 9-B awhile ago, it's about the perspective in the image.

I think you are referring to this blog, where the result was 0.009 Tons and not 0.01 Tons. There are just multiple grenade calcs, with the lowest being 0.006 Tons (in the 9-A range specifically, it does get 9-B alot).

 

[DaReaperMan]

I don't think I'll be applying then, if there's still actual non-circular debate to be had, then the CRT is still on-going

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, ground based formula is considered more reliable overall if explosions are close to the ground.

 

[Livinmeme]

I don't think I'll be applying then, if there's still actual non-circular debate to be had, then the CRT is still on-going

Wait could you explain why is circular?

 

[Diamond_Drone]

I think you are referring to this blog, where the result was 0.009 Tons and not 0.01 Tons. There are just multiple grenade calcs, with the lowest being 0.006 Tons (in the 9-A range specifically, it does get 9-B alot).

Adding to this, cause I noticed yet another Grenade Recalc, I decided to check the sizes of the explosives myself and got this:

• Soldier's Rocket Explosions seemed to be the smallest (and seemed to be what was calced in Abstract's calc)
• Demoman's Grenades were bigger, though slightly
• The General Frag Grenades were the biggest (and MIRVS were the same, just explodier)

 

[DaReaperMan]

Wait could you explain why is circular?

No new points and just repeating the same points.

 

[Abstractions]

Adding to this, cause I noticed yet another Grenade Recalc

Refer to the calculation I did here as the response calculation indicates that MIRVs are bigger, which this would then have to be. Still ends up 9-B.

The OP of the calculation in my link wanted to work with width but I believed it was more accurate to scale to the height due to the explosion dissipating outwards as fire and smoke, I never did get a response to this though.

 

[Livinmeme]

No new points and just repeating the same points.

Eh....

1. What old points
2. Again using gameplay dura isn't a thing that shouldn't be used not only because
A. It makes the merces survive against each other in a war of several years stupid when they can one shot each other with literally main weapons
B. That is not used anywhere

 

[DaReaperMan]

Eh....

1. What old points
2. Again using gameplay dura isn't a thing that shouldn't be used not only because
A. It makes the merces survive against each other in a war of several years stupid when they can one shot each other with literally main weapons
B. That is not used anywhere

Man, you must be a recycling enthusiast becuase you've literally used this argument before in this thread alone.

 

[Livinmeme]

Man, you must be a recycling enthusiast becuase you've literally used this argument before in this thread alone.

Because what i am saying is true, is a big ass double standard to negate things that other verse have but not TF2 for reasons, LITERALLY NO FPS that is not a realistic FPS or where is heavilly implied that the characters get mauled by their atacks get this threatment. Cmon they even direclty said that rocket jumping was made for civilians to get into higher places

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

IRL humans have survived rocket jumping IRL, that doesn't make IRL humans tier 9. It's the gun the launcher that absorbs most of the pressure and it's simply used to propel a higher up jump. And even then, Abstractions said using the accurate dimensions of the sizes makes it more like 9-B.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

IRL humans have survived rocket jumping IRL, that doesn't make IRL humans tier 9. It's the gun the launcher that absorbs most of the pressure and it's simply used to propel a higher up jump. And even then, Abstractions said using the accurate dimensions of the sizes makes it more like 9-B.

^This^

Plus that would make it more consistent with the Mercs being injured and killed by the same rockets when hit by them directly or in close range, theres nothing absorbing the blast

 

[DaReaperMan]

Because what i am saying is true, is a big ass double standard to negate things that other verse have but not TF2 for reasons, LITERALLY NO FPS that is not a realistic FPS or where is heavilly implied that the characters get mauled by their atacks get this threatment. Cmon they even direclty said that rocket jumping was made for civilians to get into higher places

If the shooter has no other sources of lore then yes, we will go by the gameplay for what scales and what doesn't, so if something one-shots in gameplay and never appears in lore and then proceeds contradicts the gameplay, then all we have to go off of is the gameplay. Hence why Vaporization/atomization weapons don't scale.

My original reply to things like this is perfect for it now. I am perfectly willing to scale the TFC mercs and Miss Pauling physically to the 0.001 tons of rockets, are there issues with that scaling? Apsolutely. Is it the best we got considering consistency? Yes.

It's not even like these are the only issues with scaling, the current mercs are all scaled to heavy in LS because Scout kicked his ass in his meet the video, when he got overpowered by Soldier who got overpowered by heavy!

 

[Shmooply]

It's not even like these are the only issues with scaling, the current mercs are all scaled to heavy in LS because Scout kicked his ass in his meet the video, when he got overpowered by Soldier who got overpowered by heavy!

theres also the fact that meet the director implies that the meet the team films are all just RED propaganda

 

[Aguywhodoesthings]

Also i think Scout restraining Heavy could be explained by him being in a good position where it was difficult for Heavy to overpower him

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, similar to a 98 pound girl using Jujitsu on a 300 pound man.

 

[Eseseso]

Not to mention he was using hit and run tactics on Heavy, like a wolf gradually wearing down a bison with constant hit and run attacks.

 

[Livinmeme]

theres also the fact that meet the director implies that the meet the team films are all just RED propaganda

Eh, the directors literally dies at the ends of the comics, and didn't give much of a shit after scout half hour monologue

 

[Livinmeme]

My original reply to things like this is perfect for it now. I am perfectly willing to scale the TFC mercs and Miss Pauling physically to the 0.001 tons of rockets, are there issues with that scaling? Apsolutely. Is it the best we got considering consistency? Yes.

It's not even like these are the only issues with scaling, the current mercs are all scaled to heavy in LS because Scout kicked his ass in his meet the video, when he got overpowered by Soldier who got overpowered by heavy!

No? The blue mercs in meet the team are constantly proved as far weaker versions than the red versions. Cmon spy literally soloed the entire blue team