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Reinhard swings his sword and atomizes her.

She can kill him in theory, but in practice he just autododges everything.

She can try to steal his Blessings but since they're conditional, the Od Laguna would just re-grant Reinhard his Blessings and strip them from Hinata.
 
What's different for the other match to this gain a rematch? And i think this can't be added btw.
 
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This ends like the other match made between the two,and also is invalid because of the rules of speed equal and can't be added.
Is it because of Melt Slash being SoL and retaining that speed after Reinhard is equalized to MHS? And so Reinhard gets blitzed by an attack that normally he'd have no problem reacting to?

If so it makes sense why that'd violate Speed Equalization rules.
 
Is it because of Melt Slash being SoL and retaining that speed after Reinhard is equalized to MHS? And so Reinhard gets blitzed by an attack that normally he'd have no problem reacting to?

If so it makes sense why that'd violate Speed Equalization rules.
Pretty sure melt slash wouldnt hit him anyway due to it being more of a projectile. Also apparently Hinata won the last time so she probably does counter auto dodge in some other way as well
 
Pretty sure melt slash wouldnt hit him anyway due to it being more of a projectile. Also apparently Hinata won the last time so she probably does counter auto dodge in some other way as well
If it's a projectile then the Blessing of Arrow Avoidance covers it. If it's not then the match is immediately invalid.

Nothing on her profile suggests she can hit him through his Blessings of First Sight & Second Sight.

The previous thread seems to have assumed that Usurper would work, but I disagree as Blessings are a boon that are granted by the Od Laguna, and therefore they can be granted or taken away at will.

If they were taken, Reinhard would merely recieve them again immediately, and Od Laguna would strip them from Hinata as she is not loved by it.

Hinata has no resistance to Spatial or Matter hax, so she'll be one-shot by Reinhard immediately due to the Blessing of Innitiative.

First Sight & Second Sight arguably make this a stomp... assuming that Melt Slash is a projectile and therefore affected by Arrow Avoidance.
 
Hinata seems to have resistance to It trought. 🤔
Is Usurper deleting Reinhard's Blessings, creating skills based on his Blessings, and then giving that to Hinata, or is it stealing the Blessings from him.

Blessings are just a power granted by the Od Laguna, they are technically conditional, and aren't inscribed into your fundamental being like TenSura's skills. Just being seperated from the Od Laguna is enough to remove them.

If they were to be stolen by her, she'd lose them immediately due to this. Either way Reinhard would simply regain his Blessings immediately.
 
Hinata's usurper from my memory either makes copies of her opponents skills, or does that + can completely take their skills from them, think it's the latter probably, i remember something about her getting strong due to copying Shizue, but as she liked her she didn't steal her skills, leaving her skill-less.

As far as Arrow Avoidance, i would caution against using that as an argument, Hinata is like what 1000's of times stronger than Reinhard, and it hasn't been shown to prevent attacks as complex as Hinata's from hitting him, stuff that destroys type 2 information.

I would also say the same for Arrow Guarantee and Initiative, we don't know the mechanics there either, does Reinhard attacks hit due to absurd accuracy? Or some sort of probability manipulation?

Anyway stuff like that is prone to NLF.

As for Od Laguna, it clearly loves Reinhard, and won't let him die, but idk about the whole idea taking away blessings, has it ever done that? Not talking about the Sword Saint Blessing cause that's clearly special, has anyone really had their blessings taken away?

Anyway i would say atm Reinhard is far more skilled, so don't really think Hinata is hitting him, but if she can steal his blessings, which is pretty much her first move, it could put him in a very bad spot.
 
Innitiative appears to just be an offensive version of First Sight, so it should function the same as it. Arrow Avoidance and Arrow Guarantee both function by changing the trajectory of projectiles mid-flight to always miss/hit the target, essentially a tracking attack (which is why something like a point-blank gunshot is confirmed to be unaffected by Arrow Avoidance), the actual method isn't confirmed tho iirc and closest we get is it being described as bending/defying the laws of physics which can be said for a lot of what Reinhard does.

The situation of someone gaining a Blessing when the Od Laguna doesn't want them to is very improbable since they're typically given at birth to people loved by the world. We do see that people who have been possessed by Petelgeuse have their Blessing removed, and anyone who takes in a Witch Factor will have their Blessing removed as well due to that defying the Od Laguna.

I wasn't sure on her skill so it's good to have confirmation for that. If Hinata is recreating the effects of Reinhard's Blessings as skills then that is a massive boon to her (probably causing immediate incon?), but if she is literally stealing the Blessing itself then I can't see the Od Laguna allowing her to keep them. Either way Reinhard immediately gains every single Blessing again since nothing's stopping it. I think her Mathematician is also a big deal for her to use thought-based abilities wayyyy before Reinhard.
 
Idk about her gaining every single blessing, Reinhard has over 100, which is always increasing, my knowledge of early Slime is rusty, but i would assume, she doesn't just instantly get dozens of abilities much less over 100 instantly, but i could be wrong.

I would think it's more that as the fight goes on, she learns more and more, but again could be wrong. If that's the case it's just a question of what happens faster Hinata getting all Reinhard's blessings or Reinhard killing her before then.
 
Hinata's win con here would be disintegration or melt slash and Reinhards would be matter hax or spatial cut
Btw i was wondering if they could potentially have a sword battle. Now that would be fun
Also, should i unequalize speed or would that make this a stomp?
 
Innitiative appears to just be an offensive version of First Sight, so it should function the same as it. Arrow Avoidance and Arrow Guarantee both function by changing the trajectory of projectiles mid-flight to always miss/hit the target, essentially a tracking attack (which is why something like a point-blank gunshot is confirmed to be unaffected by Arrow Avoidance), the actual method isn't confirmed tho iirc and closest we get is it being described as bending/defying the laws of physics which can be said for a lot of what Reinhard does.
Hold up, A point blank gun wouldnt be stopped by arrow avoidance? Where was that mentioned
 
Q&A, a point blank gunshot isn't a "ranged attack" and thus won't be affected by Arrow Avoidance.
Can you source it? Becuz then that means that any attack that starts too close to him won't be recognized as projectiles.

That would explain why Emilia's magix pierced him, it probably spawned on him or smth
 
Can you source it? Becuz then that means that any attack that starts too close to him won't be recognized as projectiles.

Q: How would the Blessing of Bullet Avoidance(?) work against a point-blank shot?

A: That’s no longer a ranged attack, so it would hit like normal. Against someone who only has the “Blessing of Arrow Avoidance”, that is. - Q&A30, Spirits and Arts Users, Magic Stones and Blessings


That would explain why Emilia's magix pierced him, it probably spawned on him or smth

Do you mean when she stabbed him in Wrath IF? That was explained as a combination of his Blessings being disrupted by Pandomonium and Emilia being unaware of her own unconscious sneak-attack bypassing his 6th sense. It's mentioned on his profile:
Precognitive Intuition: He has keen senses which, through his intuition, alerts him of danger and distinguishes all attacks in advance, even if invisible or in large numbers. An unconsciously-performed sneak attack can overcome this skill, though his Blessings would normally alert him in such an instance.
 
Pretty much an established thing that when a person does something they don't consider an attack, Sword Saint's can't read it

And as he declared this―― before anyone could even blink, he’d produced a twisted dagger in his hand which he promptly used to stab one of the prisoners in their chest.

Theresia:「Wha」

Theresia’s reactions to this terrible act were delayed for a moment.

Had it been an attack, there wouldn’t have been any reason why Theresia couldn’t have stopped it. However, Theresia hadn’t been able to read his behaviour. And that was because his current act now hadn’t been an “Attack”.

――As far as Stride was concerned, the act of stabbing others wasn’t something he considered as launching an attack.

Thus even through the eyes of the『Sword Saint』his blade hadn’t been seen as an attack.-Sword Demon Battle Ballard, Act 5
 
I didn't see their 1st match so I'll start from scratch

Hinata starts with information analysis and analytical prediction followed by a usurper who can even steal and use spirits like ifrit in his favor during battle, so i don't think it would be a problem to steal reinhard's blessings considering that she can control even those who have free will by her ability, this is without considering that she could hinder him by invoking spirits and in melee she can predict and act in advance during the battle

Considering that she will be disturbing Reinhard by stealing his abilities, predicting and continuously attacking him with a sword that kills him after 7 hits, I think he would have some problems here, if Reinhard uses matter manipulation that would be a problem, but I don't know if he would have time for that when she is analyzing and predicting all his actions to act in response
 
I didn't see their 1st match so I'll start from scratch

Hinata starts with information analysis and analytical prediction followed by a usurper who can even steal and use spirits like ifrit in his favor during battle, so i don't think it would be a problem to steal reinhard's blessings considering that she can control even those who have free will by her ability, this is without considering that she could hinder him by invoking spirits and in melee she can predict and act in advance during the battle
Reinhard has layered AP and Precog. Remember the lines of optimal attack that Hinata and Rimuru could see? Theresia has a better version of that, that if she follows will absolutely kill her opponents without fail and Reinhard scales so heavily above her that Wilhelm says they shouldn't ever be compared. Due to this Reinhard has the skill advantage in this. There is also the fact that his auto dodge blessing will activate and he already has his godly instincts which allow him to make the optimal decision without even the need to think
Considering that she will be disturbing Reinhard by stealing his abilities, predicting and continuously attacking him with a sword that kills him after 7 hits, I think he would have some problems here, if Reinhard uses matter manipulation that would be a problem, but I don't know if he would have time for that when she is analyzing and predicting all his actions to act in response
I also doubt Reinhard would be disturbed by that like..at all Reid scales above him in skill and he could still defeat him without his blessings. Also the arguement against Usurpur is that since Od Laguna controls the blessings even if Hinata took them, it would simply take it back from her and restore all of Reinhard's blessings.
I was thinking about the rainbow sword as well and isnt the Life Sword just a better version of that? It also destroys the soul in a couple of hits and apparently Reinhard will gain a blessing to resist that if its ever pointed at him
and again, i am pretty sure Reinhard wouldnt have any problem sith AP and precog
 
Reinhard has layered AP and Precog.
I don't believe this the correct term. Reinhard has never predicted a being that other AP users were unable to predict, to my knowledge. He has a vastly superior level of precog based on both feats and scaling, but I don't think that's actually creating another layer of the hax.

Anyways, I don't doubt she could use Usurper on his Blessings, but I doubt that it would hinder him very much. He'll immediately sense they've been taken, and just recieve them again- just like he recieves a "Blessing of the Phoenix- Next" if the Blessing of the Phoenix is used. I also think it's still up in the air whether the Blessings would become Skills (and therefore ingrained in Hinata's being) or remain as Blessings (which would be stripped from her pretty quickly by the World).

Both can accurately predict the future, though Hinata herself seems to resist AP while Reinhard is more skilled. Reinhard also instinctively avoids any and every attack via his Intuition, which is simply guaranteed by his autododge Blessings. I can't see Spirits hindering Reinhard at all really due to his AP/IR/Skill.

I can't see her prediction actually allowing her to hit Reinhard even once honestly, let alone 7 times, due to him automatically understanding and instinctively dodging any and all attacks. His matter hax nuke which is activated by just swinging his sword has an AoE of dozens of kilometres, so it's seemingly impossible to dodge as well even if it's analyzed and predicted.
 
doesn't reinhard open with matter hax via unleashing reid ?

Well... Puck was a threat to the world and needed to be destroyed immediately so I am unsure how quickly reinhard will unleash it
 
doesn't reinhard open with matter hax via unleashing reid ?

Well... Puck was a threat to the world and needed to be destroyed immediately so I am unsure how quickly reinhard will unleash it
Yeah if his opponent is a genuine threat then he will go for optimal play due to his godly instinct and unleash the matter nuke
 
His matter hax nuke which is activated by just swinging his sword has an AoE of dozens of kilometres, so it's seemingly impossible to dodge as well even if it's analyzed and predicted.
Given the distance between the Jura Forest and Ruberios, if Hinata predicted attack, she can escape with teleportation magic.
 
If they were taken, Reinhard would merely recieve them again immediately, and Od Laguna would strip them from Hinata as she is not loved by it.
The abilities Hinata stole with the Usurper will be written to her Soul (İnformation Type 2) like her other abilities, so abilities stolen by the Usurper cannot be recovered.
First Sight & Second Sight arguably make this a stomp... assuming that Melt Slash is a projectile and therefore affected by Arrow Avoidance.
Doesn't work on Melt Slash, it's already a information type 2 based skill.
 
Given the distance between the Jura Forest and Ruberios, if Hinata predicted attack, she can escape with teleportation magic.
Pretty sure Hinata cant teleport what are you talking about?
The abilities Hinata stole with the Usurper will be written to her Soul (İnformation Type 2) like her other abilities, so abilities stolen by the Usurper cannot be recovered.
Doubtful since they arent skills themselves, has she ever been able to steal magic from people?
Doesn't work on Melt Slash, it's already a information type 2 based skill.
Makes sense but Hinata doesn't start from Melt Slash
 
The abilities Hinata stole with the Usurper will be written to her Soul (İnformation Type 2) like her other abilities, so abilities stolen by the Usurper cannot be recovered.
Has she ever stolen an ability that wasn't a Skill and then had it written into her soul as a skill?

And Reinhard wouldn't need to recover the Blessings from Hinata, he'd just recieve them again. Several copies of the same Blessing can exist.


Doesn't work on Melt Slash, it's already a information type 2 based skill.
First & Second Sight still allow for ""aim"" dodging, but is there a reason why Arrow Avoidance wouldn't affect Melt Slash?
 
Pretty sure Hinata cant teleport what are you talking about?
Just look at Hinata's profile.
"Teleportation (Hinata has teleportation magic)"
Has she ever stolen an ability that wasn't a Skill and then had it written into her soul as a skill?
This isn't special case. All abilities possessed in Tensura are written into one's soul.
And Reinhard wouldn't need to recover the Blessings from Hinata, he'd just recieve them again. Several copies of the same Blessing can exist.
There's no reason why Hinata shouldn't steal them again.
Arrow Avoidance wouldn't affect Melt Slash?
Besides what Celestial Pegasus said.

Melt Slash: "A skill that combines its strongest spell, Disintegration, with sword art. Hinata then transforms into a beam of light and quickly approaches her target."

Any proof that Reinhard's Arrow Avoidance covers such a thing?
This isn't an arrow or a bullet.
Hinata doesn't start from Melt Slash
Yes but Hinata would realize after the information analysis that Melt slash was the only way to beat Reinhard.
 
This isn't special case. All abilities possessed in Tensura are written into one's soul.
It kind of is, Blessings aren't a power like magic that comes from the individual. Blessings are boons that the Od Laguna allows people it likes to use.

It's like Reinhard is getting buffed by support, when cut off from that support or if that support no longer likes the Blessed individual, it can and will just stop providing the Blessing.

There's no reason why Hinata shouldn't steal them again.
And he gains it again, which might cause a loop.

Melt Slash: "A skill that combines its strongest spell, Disintegration, with sword art. Hinata then transforms into a beam of light and quickly approaches her target."

Any proof that Reinhard's Arrow Avoidance covers such a thing?
This isn't an arrow or a bullet.
It's a ranged attack, so Arrow Avoidance covering it would make sense.

Other than that, isn't this magic? Reinhard's presence sort of turns off all magic.
 
It's a ranged attack, so Arrow Avoidance covering it would make sense.
Disintegration is a ranged attack, not Melt Slash.
Hinata then transforms into a beam of light and quickly approaches her target."
Other than that, isn't this magic? Reinhard's presence sort of turns off all magic.
Good luck doing this. Reinhard can't take Hinata's magic from her.

Magic Nullification (Her body will automatically disintegrate magicules, which nullifies any magic on her)

Unconventional Resistance to Power Nullification (Skills are inscribed into the soul (information type 2) which resists any outside interference unless the interference is stronger than the soul's defenses, furthermore Unique Skills and above require a strong soul to possess them)

I don't even mention that it could be stolen and copied by the Usurper.
 
Reinhard has layered AP and precog
Hinata resists the precog
Remember the lines of optimal attack that Hinata and Rimuru could see? Theresia has a better version of that, that if she follows will absolutely kill her opponents without fail and Reinhard scales so heavily above her that Wilhelm says they shouldn't ever be compared.
can you explain better or post the scan about this comparison made by wilhelm? because by the looks of it, the comparison is like "Reinhard is much stronger than Theresia, therefore they should not be compared", also, can you say more about Theresia's skill? In what ways is her skill superior?
There is also the fact that his auto dodge blessing will activate and he already has his godly instincts which allow him to make the optimal decision without even the need to think
yes and hinata will simply analyze and steal this during the fight
Also the arguement against Usurpur is that since Od Laguna controls the blessings even if Hinata took them, it would simply take it back from her and restore all of Reinhard's blessings.
who really is the Od Laguna?
Reinhard will gain a blessing to resist that
whether he wins or not doesn't matter because he still doesn't have it now
 
Pretty sure Hinata cant teleport what are you talking about?
she can
since they arent skills themselves, has she ever been able to steal magic from people?
No, only skills and physical abilities like swordsmanship, but does reinhard use magic?
Makes sense but Hinata doesn't start from Melt Slash
What makes you think that? Even against rimuru, in the first match from the moment she realized that rimuru could become a threat in the future, she used disintegration, so yes, when she realizes the threat that is Reinhard she will be using her best moves
 
Good luck doing this. Reinhard can't take Hinata's magic from her.

Magic Nullification (Her body will automatically disintegrate magicules, which nullifies any magic on her)

Unconventional Resistance to Power Nullification (Skills are inscribed into the soul (information type 2) which resists any outside interference unless the interference is stronger than the soul's defenses, furthermore Unique Skills and above require a strong soul to possess them)

I don't even mention that it could be stolen and copied by the Usurper.
Reinhard doesn't take away magic.

Reinhard is also completely incapable of using any magic whatsoever.

His nullification doesn't target the inside i.e the soul or Od where mana is stored, it drains magical energy as it's produced & from the environment itself.

Usurper also should not be able to steal his power nullification due to the fact that it's merely a side-effect of his physiology.


can you explain better or post the scan about this comparison made by wilhelm? because by the looks of it, the comparison is like "Reinhard is much stronger than Theresia, therefore they should not be compared", also, can you say more about Theresia's skill? In what ways is her skill superior?
The difference in skill between Wilhelm/Theresia and Reinhard is so great that they aren't even in the same dimension.

As the Sword Saint, Theresia can see white rays of battle that are guidance from the Sword God. If she merely traces those rays, she will unquestionably kill her opponent. Wilhelm overcame this ability and defeated Theresia, as the rays could not identify a path to victory against Wilhelm.


yes and hinata will simply analyze and steal this during the fight
Which he will regain.


who really is the Od Laguna?
It is the will of the World itself- a mechanism to prevent the world from breaking. It is the source of all souls, Spirits, mana, and Blessings, and presumably created the world.


No, only skills and physical abilities like swordsmanship, but does reinhard use magic?
Blessings are a power differing from a skill, technique, Spiritual Art, or Magic. It's the direct power of the world, but it's presumably mana-based since that's Od Laguna's whole schtick.
 
His nullification doesn't target the inside i.e the soul or Od where mana is stored, it drains magical energy as it's produced & from the environment itself.
It's worse to work like that. He can't take Hinata's own magic reserve from him. It can only prevent it from using the surrounding magic particles.
Usurper also should not be able to steal his power nullification due to the fact that it's merely a side-effect of his physiology.
Hinata's Usurper steals or copies abilities at fundemental information level. So it's okay for Hinata .
 
It's worse to work like that. He can't take Hinata's own magic reserve from him. It can only prevent it from using the surrounding magic particles.
It basically means that as she tries to fire a magic spell from her fingertips or whatever, only magic energy will come out which Reinhard would then absorb. Even if magic can be used, the effects of magic against him is reduced to 1/5th.


Hinata's Usurper steals or copies abilities at fundemental information level. So it's okay for Hinata .
No I mean it's literally a result of his biology. He has a deformity in his Gate. It's like trying to steal or copy his stomach, hair, skin, teeth, etc.
 
No I mean it's literally a result of his biology. He has a deformity in his Gate. It's like trying to steal or copy his stomach, hair, skin, teeth, etc.
It's a supernatural power,
It's not really a biological thing.

Also I'm talking about fundamental information that shapes reality. Usurper permanently takes the information of any skill (doesn't matter what) from Reinhard, or writes the information into Hinata's soul.
 
It's a supernatural power,
It's not really a biological thing.
It can be considered supernatural since IRL humans don't have it, but it is absolutely a biological thing.

Reinhard, and every living organism in his verse, possesses an organ called a "Gate". This is an organ which inhales and exhales mana from environment. It is thanks to this Gate that mana can be used to strengthen the body or to cast magical spells.

Reinhard was born with a "defective" Gate, he is unable to exhale mana back into the environment. But as a result of his Gate, all mana is drawn towards him blindly, which harms the environment. Due to this, whenever he is in a fight all Spirits and Magicians will be totally unable to cast magic, while Meteors and Magic Tools will cease functioning.

It'd be like if Usurper copied Rimuru's natural regeneration as a slime. It'd need to alter both Reinhard's and Hinata's very physiology.

Additionally Reinhard would just die very quickly without a Gate, it's like removing any other vital organ.
 
It can be considered supernatural since IRL humans don't have it, but it is absolutely a biological thing.

Reinhard, and every living organism in his verse, possesses an organ called a "Gate". This is an organ which inhales and exhales mana from environment. It is thanks to this Gate that mana can be used to strengthen the body or to cast magical spells.

Reinhard was born with a "defective" Gate, he is unable to exhale mana back into the environment. But as a result of his Gate, all mana is drawn towards him blindly, which harms the environment. Due to this, whenever he is in a fight all Spirits and Magicians will be totally unable to cast magic, while Meteors and Magic Tools will cease functioning.

It'd be like if Usurper copied Rimuru's natural regeneration as a slime. It'd need to alter both Reinhard's and Hinata's very physiology.

Additionally Reinhard would just die very quickly without a Gate, it's like removing any other vital organ.
Thanks for the clarification. Hinata has never changed reality and she can't change her own biology either. (Hinata isn't even a full Spiritual Lifeform
 
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His nullification doesn't target the inside i.e the soul or Od where mana is stored, it drains magical energy as it's produced & from the environment itself.
Coincidentally, the nullification of power is almost identical to this, it created a barrier that prevented any kind of magic, monsters made of magic essence would not even would survive if they weren't strong enough and she, besides not being affected, used and cast disintegration (spiritual magic) without any problem
Which he will regain.
And is it possible to have two blessings existing at the same time? Because taking it out of Hinata is something he's not doing, plus how fast is the blessing recovery?
It is the will of the World itself- a mechanism to prevent the world from breaking. It is the source of all souls, Spirits, mana, and Blessings, and presumably created the world.
I see, so it's something abstract that's giving reinhard blessings?
Blessings are a power differing from a skill, technique, Spiritual Art, or Magic. It's the direct power of the world, but it's presumably mana-based since that's Od Laguna's whole schtick.
Well, tensura skills are also given by the world and she can steal, but I really prefer not to assimilate blessing and skill for now
 
Coincidentally, the nullification of power is almost identical to this, it created a barrier that prevented any kind of magic, monsters made of magic essence would not even would survive if they weren't strong enough and she, besides not being affected, used and cast disintegration (spiritual magic) without any problem
Similarly, Spirits near Reinhard will be absorbed by him if he or they aren't careful, due to them composed from mana.


And is it possible to have two blessings existing at the same time? Because taking it out of Hinata is something he's not doing, plus how fast is the blessing recovery?
Yes.The only exception may be the Blessing of the Sword Saint, but that's a unique Blessing that chooses its own host anyway, and all it does is increase your practical skill to your own natural limit.

He'd regain them as soon as either he thinks "Damn my Blessings are gone, I want them back." or Od Laguna decides "Damn my favourite child might die without my Blessings, better give them to him."


I see, so it's something abstract that's giving reinhard blessings?
You could say so yes, it's like the Nexus of all of the World's limitless energy, and has no set form or location- part of it even exists in a different dimension. Despite this, Reinhard could somehow beat it in a fight if he wanted to.
 
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