Super Multi-Continent Bros? (Mario Bros High 6-A proposal)

[Armorchompy]

He literally says he's holding back at the beginning of the game and clearly acts incredibly cocky and does not view Mario as a threat of any sort for most of the final boss too, not to mention Mario is completely incapable of hurting him while he can withstand some hits from him. I don't see how it's so unlikely that he might be.

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

I'm not necessarily opposed to Bowser having High 6-A with the star rod ngl, I think you can just assume he might have been holding back on Mario, or that him tanking hits is not necessarily indicative of scaling (due to him being definitely portrayed as not scaling to Bowser in that state otherwise).

Like people have said already, Paper Bowser has no reason to hold back on Paper Mario. Also, Paper Mario does take hits from the Star Rod during the fight against Paper Bowser, so I think he scales.

 

[Lou_change]

We don’t exactly know what Bowser was having the star rod do he might just not have been using it to its full potential without realizing.

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

He literally says he's holding back at the beginning of the game and clearly acts incredibly cocky and does not view Mario as a threat of any sort for most of the final boss too, not to mention Mario is completely incapable of hurting him while he can withstand some hits from him. I don't see how it's so unlikely that he might be.

I feel like he got serious when the Peach Beam ended his boost. Besides, the High 6-A feat seems passive, and, with Kammy Koopa's device, I feel like Paper Bowser's attacks would be stronger than it even if he did hold back.

 

[Omnificence]

He literally says he's holding back at the beginning of the game and clearly acts incredibly cocky and does not view Mario as a threat of any sort for most of the final boss too, not to mention Mario is completely incapable of hurting him while he can withstand some hits from him. I don't see how it's so unlikely that he might be.

We don’t exactly know what Bowser was having the star rod do he might just not have been using it to its full potential without realizing.

Well, he wasn't holding back in the second fight, and it took Paper Mario a helluva lot more to defeat him than just using the Star Beam. He needed an upgraded version of it along with all his attacks.

 

[Lou_change]

Third fight actually

 

[Armorchompy]

Fair enough, I guess Bowser might not be High 6-A after all

 

[Omnificence]

Fair enough, I guess Bowser might not be High 6-A after all

Didn't you say you weren't opposed to Bowser being High 6-A with the Star Rod?

I'm not necessarily opposed to Bowser having High 6-A with the star rod ngl

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

Fair enough, I guess Bowser might not be High 6-A after all

So, you agree with me regarding not using this calculation at all?

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Neutral on the upgrade for the time being, but I just wanted to ask something: Is it really in character for Bowser to hold back against Mario during their fights?

Like as far as I'm aware, Bowser can be quite full of himself and can be arrogant but he doesn't really strike me as being the type who underestimates an enemy, especially when that said enemy is his lifetime nemesis that has consistently proven himself to be formidable foe for Bowser to want to beat and capable of stopping his plans time and time again. Not to mention that in Paper Mario 64 I doubt he would hold back against Mario at the end of the game when he now sees that Mario has the means of nullifying him of his invulnerability, and is a hair away from finally conquering the Mushroom Kingdom and getting Peach while putting down Mario for good.

Of course I could be wrong here, but I've recently played through the entirety of Paper Mario 64 and it never really struck me that Bowser was holding back against Mario at the end when he's hell bent on winning against him at last and again knows that Mario has the means of nullifying his invulnerability

 

[Omnificence]

So, you agree with me regarding not using this calculation at all?

I feel like he got serious when the Peach Beam ended his boost. Besides, the High 6-A feat seems passive, and, with Kammy Koopa's device, I feel like Paper Bowser's attacks would be stronger than it even if he did hold back.

Like people have said already, Paper Bowser has no reason to hold back on Paper Mario. Also, Paper Mario does take hits from the Star Rod during the fight against Paper Bowser, so I think he scales.

If you think Paper Mario scales to it, why are you against the High 6-A calculation or Mario being at that level?

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

Neutral on the upgrade for the time being, but I just wanted to ask something: Is it really in character for Bowser to hold back against Mario during their fights?

Like as far as I'm aware, Bowser can be quite full of himself and can be arrogant but he doesn't really strike me as being the type who underestimates an enemy, especially when that said enemy is his lifetime nemesis that has consistently proven himself to be formidable foe for Bowser to want to beat and capable of stopping his plans time and time again. Not to mention that in Paper Mario 64 I doubt he would hold back against Mario at the end of the game when he now sees that Mario has the means of nullifying him of his invulnerability, and is a hair away from finally conquering the Mushroom Kingdom and getting Peach while putting down Mario for good.

Of course I could be wrong here, but I've recently played through the entirety of Paper Mario 64 and it never really struck me that Bowser was holding back against Mario at the end when he's hell bent on winning against him at last and again knows that Mario has the means of nullifying his invulnerability

I mean, Paper Bowser does imply during the first fight that he was toying with Paper Mario, and I can see him holding back before he realizes Paper Mario can end his boost at the end of the game, but I feel like he's angry enough after Paper Mario uses the Star/Peach Beam to stop holding back.

If you think Paper Mario scales to it, why are you against the High 6-A calculation or Mario being at that level?

Because, if the calculation were used and Paper Mario scaled to it, he would be High 6-A for all the following games, which would cause problems with the scaling in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam.

 

[Omnificence]

Because, if the calculation were used and Paper Mario scaled to it, he would be High 6-A for all the following games, which would cause problems with the scaling in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam.

That is exactly why I proposed Paper Mario being High 6-A with the Star Spirits since he needed their power in the final fight to match a Star Rod-amped Paper Bowser. We're not scaling Base Paper Mario to the Star Rod, we're scaling a different key for him to it. Nobody else except Mario and Bowser are getting the amp in this case, just the two of them.

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

Yeah, yeah, but you still need to prove that the Star Spirits are granting Paper Mario anything more than their own abilities and the power to summon them.

 

[Omnificence]

This is what the Star Spirits say is happening:

"he has made himself all-powerful by making wishes with the Star Rod. He is terrible to behold!
Once we 7 Star Spirits are reunited in Star Haven, we can give you the power to fight Bowser even with his newfound strength."

The wish to increase his strength is the same one that he wishes to become invincible.

"And when I use it to increase my strength, even you can't beat me, Mario!"

To attempt to say that Bowser doesn't scale to the mere ambient power it gives off in context when it gives him so called all-powerful strength, you'd be trying too hard to say he's not scaling to the full power, especially when the Star Spirits do that function to the night sky to make it brighter since they had the Rod and being fully aware of the level of power when saying this to Mario. We don't need him wiping a continent on-screen here to say he scales to the power that the calc portrays. The Kammy platform cutscene also indicated that the level of power obtained for his strength was beyond what the Rod could ever grant before to Bowser, if the Star Spirits couldn't null it, so he would be hitting its limits to the power the Rod would provide to him, at least to the awareness of the Spirits.

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

Sorry, but what is that trying to prove?

 

[Omnificence]

Sorry, but what is that trying to prove?

They're literally saying that they could give Paper Mario the strength to fight Bowser who had the Star Rod. They even healed the damage that Paper Mario received from the Star Rod that Bowser had.

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

"The power to fight Bowser even with his newfound strength" could very well be referring to the Star Beam, and healing Paper Mario means nothing for this argument.

 

[Omnificence]

"The power to fight Bowser even with his newfound strength" could very well be referring to the Star Beam, and healing Paper Mario means nothing for this argument.

Then why not just give Paper Mario High 6-A via the Star Beam?

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

Because the Star Beam doesn't deal damage, and its only use is Power Nullification.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Are we really STILL discussing this point, jfc

 

[Omnificence]

Also, that would cause a scaling problem, since he uses the Star Rod's power to attack Paper Mario even when he isn't actively boosting himself, and yet Paper Mario can take these hits despite being 6-C.

My vote is on leaving everything 6-C. Several high-tiered calculations became obsolete with the downgrade, and so should this one, since, if it was applied, it would scale to Paper Mario, which would cause a scaling problem in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam.

And why would this cause a scaling issue when there is only one 6-C feat the entire cast scales to that isn't even from the main Super Mario Bros continuity or games?

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

I dunno. That's what was decided. But, even if the tier were lower, the same scaling problems would happen.

 

[Omnificence]

I dunno. That's what was decided. But, even if the tier were lower, the same scaling problems would happen.

You don't know? Why would that be a problem? You could literally just say something like "6-C, likely/possibly High 6-A" or anything like that for any profile.

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

I didn't participate in the downgrade thread, so Armorchompy would be a better person to ask about this, but, by my skimming of it, I think having ratings like that was decided against, especially when you consider that it would apply to the main continuity as well, since Mario and Luigi would scale to Paper Mario.

 

[Omnificence]

I didn't participate in the downgrade thread, so Armorchompy would be a better person to ask about this, but, by my skimming of it, I think having ratings like that was decided against, especially when you consider that it would apply to the main continuity as well, since Mario and Luigi would scale to Paper Mario.

Well, this thread's not about the downgrade (I didn't participate in the thread either, and thank God for that); I'm just trying to understand your logic here. If you think Paper Mario scales to the Star Rod, then from that standpoint, you shouldn't have a problem having either base Paper Mario or Paper Mario with the Star Spirits being something like "6-C, likely/possibly High 6-A", right? Or we could just give Paper Bowser a High 6-A key with the Star Rod and not scale Paper Mario to it at all.

 

[Minion_of_Pigsaw]

Well, this thread's not about the downgrade (I didn't participate in the thread either, and thank God for that); I'm just trying to understand your logic here. If you think Paper Mario scales to the Star Rod, then from that standpoint, you shouldn't have a problem having either base Paper Mario or Paper Mario with the Star Spirits being something like "6-C, likely/possibly High 6-A", right? Or we could just give Paper Bowser a High 6-A key with the Star Rod and not scale Paper Mario to it at all.

Were it not for the downgrade, then, yeah, I wouldn't have any problem with directly scaling everyone to High 6-A (ignoring the existence of higher-tiered feats), and giving Paper Bowser a High 6-A key without scaling anyone else to it doesn't feel right to me.

 

[Starsprite53]

I agree with high 6-A Star rod

 

[Omnificence]

Are we really STILL discussing this point, jfc

I was thinking of making another thread for this since it's almost necro.

 

[Omnificence]

You know what? Let's just close this thread and save the upgrade for another time.

 

[Armorchompy]

My reason for disagreeing with High 6-A (besides the fact that it'd be an outlier for the verse as a whole) is that Mario's scaling to Bowser is obviously illegitimate, given he cannot hurt him at all, so Bowser being incapable of one-shotting him to me hints that either he's not hitting at full force (which doesn't seem to be the case), or that he cannot access the Rod's full power.