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Super Multi-Continent Bros? (Mario Bros High 6-A proposal)

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Well, I guess we'll have to go with "High 6-A with the Star Beam", then.
 
JTGamer96 said:
Why don't we at the very least just give Bowser a High 6-A key with the Star Rod, then?
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Also, that would cause a scaling problem, since he uses the Star Rod's power to attack Paper Mario even when he isn't actively boosting himself, and yet Paper Mario can take these hits despite being 6-C.
 
Minion_of_Pigsaw said:
Also, that would cause a scaling problem, since he uses the Star Rod's power to attack Paper Mario even when he isn't actively boosting himself, and yet Paper Mario can take these hits despite being 6-C.
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And why exactly can't we scale Base Paper Mario to that or give him a High 6-A key with the Star Spirits which he had in possession during the final battle with Bowser who was attacking him with the Star Rod if this is the case? Am I missing something? Is that not why I proposed these said changes to Paper Mario?
 
Like I said, there is no evidence it was the Star Spirits who directly boosted Paper Mario's power, and scaling him directly to the feat would mess up the scaling with the continuity. What the CRT I'm planning would propose is attributing the power boost to his better Badges and higher level. I feel like that's the only way to apply this feat without scaling problems (but I have yet to look for them).
 
Because PM blatantly does not scale to Bowser in that state and is in fact completely incapable of threatening him. I don't think the power boost changes matters either given that the Star Spirits are necessary to winning over Bowser
 
Armorchompy said:
Because PM blatantly does not scale to Bowser in that state and is in fact completely incapable of threatening him. I don't think the power boost changes matters either given that the Star Spirits are necessary to winning over Bowser
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I was talking about the shockwave and lightning attacks that Paper Bowser can use even without being invincible.
 
I mean he gets the dura from the same source he gets the AP, and Mario's provably not on the level of the durability
 
There is no indication that everything the Star Rod can do is in the same level. For example, the shockwave and lightning attacks deal different amounts of damage. Even lore-wise, this wouldn't hold up, since different wishes would use different amounts of power; Bowser wishing for a lightning strike would probably require more power than some bloke wishing for a Shroom Cake.
 
Minion_of_Pigsaw said:
There is no indication that everything the Star Rod can do is in the same level.
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That doesn't mean it ISN'T on the same level; no context in the game indicates the power of the Star Rod varied or fluctuated with each attack. Plenty of artifacts in and out of the franchise don't always output the same level as they show. Not every object in fiction is gonna display the same level of energy every time they make an appearance.
 
Minion_of_Pigsaw said:
There is no indication that everything the Star Rod can do is in the same level. For example, the shockwave and lightning attacks deal different amounts of damage. Even lore-wise, this wouldn't hold up, since different wishes would use different amounts of power; Bowser wishing for a lightning strike would probably require more power than some bloke wishing for a Shroom Cake.
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Well if it isn't all on the same level then there's no reason to assume it's High 6-A
 
If his AP is not on the highest level that the star rod can output then it's not necessarily High 6-A, if they're the same as his dura then he's holding back when he attacks mario, either way Mario doesn't scale to High 6-A
 
Yeah, Kammy Koopa's device. I neglected to mention it, but Paper Bowser with it and the Peach Beam would follow the scaling of Paper Bowser with only the Star Rod and the Star Beam, respectively.
 
Armorchompy said:
If his AP is not on the highest level that the star rod can output then it's not necessarily High 6-A, if they're the same as his dura then he's holding back when he attacks mario, either way Mario doesn't scale to High 6-A
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This is what the Star Spirits say is happening:

"he has made himself all-powerful by making wishes with the Star Rod. He is terrible to behold!
Once we 7 Star Spirits are reunited in Star Haven, we can give you the power to fight Bowser even with his newfound strength."

The wish to increase his strength is the same one that he wishes to become invincible.

"And when I use it to increase my strength, even you can't beat me, Mario!"

To attempt to say that Bowser doesn't scale to the mere ambient power it gives off in context when it gives him so called all-powerful strength, you'd be trying too hard to say he's not scaling to the full power, especially when the Star Spirits do that function to the night sky to make it brighter since they had the Rod and being fully aware of the level of power when saying this to Mario. We don't need him wiping a continent on-screen here to say he scales to the power that the calc portrays. The Kammy platform cutscene also indicated that the level of power obtained for his strength was beyond what the Rod could ever grant before to Bowser, if the Star Spirits couldn't null it, so he would be hitting its limits to the power the Rod would provide to him, at least to the awareness of the Spirits.

I truly am neutral if (base) Mario backscales or not for that front on the badge/end of game stuff, since it'd be a situational thing with the Star Spirits making him a stone wall at best?
 
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Mephistus said:
This is what the Star Spirits say is happening:

"he has made himself all-powerful by making wishes with the Star Rod. He is terrible to behold!
Once we 7 Star Spirits are reunited in Star Haven, we can give you the power to fight Bowser even with his newfound strength."

The wish to increase his strength is the same one that he wishes to become invincible.

"And when I use it to increase my strength, even you can't beat me, Mario!"

To attempt to say that Bowser doesn't scale to the mere ambient power it gives off in context when it gives him so called all-powerful strength, you'd be trying too hard to say he's not scaling to the full power, especially when the Star Spirits do that function to the night sky to make it brighter since they had the Rod and being fully aware of the level of power when saying this to Mario. We don't need him wiping a continent on-screen here to say he scales to the power that the calc portrays. The Kammy platform cutscene also indicated that the level of power obtained for his strength was beyond what the Rod could ever grant before to Bowser, if the Star Spirits couldn't null it, so he would be hitting its limits to the power the Rod would provide to him, at least to the awareness of the Spirits.
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I wasn't saying Bowser didn't scale to High 6-A in AP, I was saying that whether he did or not, Mario wouldn't scale to that.
Mephistus said:
I truly am neutral if (base) Mario backscales or not for that front on the badge/end of game stuff, since it'd be a situational thing with the Star Spirits making him a stone wall at best?
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I don't know
 
I know the amp for platform enhanced Bowser and the peach beam aren't quantifiable but for the sake of explaining twink went from not being able to harm kammy to being unaffected by kammy and the increase to both stats is about the same (at least on a meta level plus 1 to power and defense). When the peach beam is unlocked Eldstar says, "I feel... The wishes of Princess Peach and all of the Mushroom Kingdom are giving us power! Perhaps now we can match Bowser's strength!". I am admittedly somewhat confused on with it was referring to twink and the star spirits or just the star spirits but this does suggest a somewhat large but probably not a tier jumping one
 
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Minion_of_Pigsaw said:
We haven't concluded anything yet. That is why I bumped the thread.
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Well, we have the votes to apply the changes; we just need to know what to add. I already suggested giving Paper Mario a High 6-A tier with a Star Spirits key and/or High 6-A via the Star/Peach Beam.
 
My vote is on leaving everything 6-C. Several high-tiered calculations became obsolete with the downgrade, and so should this one, since, if it was applied, it would scale to Paper Mario, which would cause a scaling problem in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam.
 
Minion_of_Pigsaw said:
My vote is on leaving everything 6-C. Several high-tiered calculations became obsolete with the downgrade, and so should this one, since, if it was applied, it would scale to Paper Mario, which would cause a scaling problem in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam.
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That's why I proposed a Star Spirits key for him based on the tier.
 
Armorchompy said:
The votes are pretty outdated, in regards to the debate that actually happened
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Armorchompy said:
The High 6-A rating definitely should be removed
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Minion_of_Pigsaw said:
My vote is on leaving everything 6-C. Several high-tiered calculations became obsolete with the downgrade, and so should this one, since, if it was applied, it would scale to Paper Mario, which would cause a scaling problem in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam.
Click to expand...
Minion_of_Pigsaw said:
Yeah, but I already argued about why it doesn't work.
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Ugh, fine! I guess we'll just have to give Paper Bowser a High 6-A key with the Star Rod. I already removed the changes. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Paper_Mario
 
I'm still opposed to that, because of scaling issues (6-C Paper Mario taking hits from a High 6-A Star Rod). Like I said, my vote is on not scaling anything to the calculation.
 
For abilities, sure. But for other statistics, I would make him "Island level, higher with the Star Rod, even higher with Kammy Koopa's device."
 
Minion_of_Pigsaw said:
For abilities, sure. But for other statistics, I would make him "Island level, higher with the Star Rod, even higher with Kammy Koopa's device."
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Sounds good, but I still recommend Multi-Continent level for the Star Rod.
 
Well, uh, here is my argument against that.
Minion_of_Pigsaw said:
My vote is on leaving everything 6-C. Several high-tiered calculations became obsolete with the downgrade, and so should this one, since, if it was applied, it would scale to Paper Mario, which would cause a scaling problem in Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam.
Click to expand...
 
I'm not necessarily opposed to Bowser having High 6-A with the star rod ngl, I think you can just assume he might have been holding back on Mario, or that him tanking hits is not necessarily indicative of scaling (due to him being definitely portrayed as not scaling to Bowser in that state otherwise).
 
Armorchompy said:
I'm not necessarily opposed to Bowser having High 6-A with the star rod ngl, I think you can just assume he might have been holding back on Mario, or that him tanking hits is not necessarily indicative of scaling (due to him being definitely portrayed as not scaling to Bowser in that state otherwise).
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Why would Bowser be holding back?
 
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