STRONGEST One-Punch Man Discussion Thread!

[Therefir]

@Therefir For the GRB thing, are we using supernova energies as a baseline or are going to just go with some various estimated GRB measurement?

We are going to use 1^44 Joules for the GRB, the baseline supernova energy.

I couldn't find the width of a GRB so I had to delete that section from the calc.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I believe it's because ONE and Murata realized the fight was incredibly lackluster on all fronts which nobody would ever admit until cosmic Garou happened.

It wasn't lack luster, but it did what they didn't do with Boros: They made Garou into a joke.

This also isn't me deep throating Boros (this time), this is something Murata mentioned

Murata: On occasion. For instance, during the big showdown with Boros. Since I felt this was the heavyweight championship of the universe, I tried to make it as flashy as possible. However, midway through when Boros starts losing ground to Saitama, there were places where he appeared clownish…ONE-sensei pointed out to me that the reason Boros is popular is because he always retains his dignity, even against Saitama. That made it all click for me, and I redrew things from square one. When it comes to the storyline, characters, and dialogue, all of that flows from ONE-sensei’s head, so I constantly check in with him.

Pre-CF Garou just didn't have any dignity. Saitama was dicking around incredibly hard against him and he was just a joke. Which is a factor in the backlash they got in my view.

the stakes already happened tho, if anything it builds more around just what is saitama even?

The point is that once you stop treating death as serious the readers will also stop treating it serious. Its one of the largest complaints about DC/Marvel and say, Dragon Ball.

Genos' death was a big event for Saitama, but it was quickly undone because they wrote themselves into a unfavorable situation.

but alot of the redraws built more stuff

A lot of the redraws drawed out a long arc to be even longer and most of them, like with Sweet Mask for example, probably didn't need to be done in the first place.

Other redraws like with Orochi just served as setup for future arcs and the entire Phoenix Man arc was just hyper cancer with the redraws.

when hes brought back more to his wc "self" they complained,

But the big thing here: They didn't do that.

WebComic Garou never killed any human. The entire twist was that his thing was a front because he wanted to be a hero. The manga tried to keep that twist, wasn't subtle, had him mind controlled by another character to kill dozens of others and then gave Saitama time travel to undo all of that.

Its not a 1:1 comparison here. You can like the manga while still noting its not perfect. The WebComic has its own pacing and writing issues when it comes to massive text dumps for example.

 

[Magmag]

For example, I don't like a lot of Phase 4 of the MCU, personally, but if others do, that's fine.

what movies specifically? yes ik this isn't an mcu thread.

 

[Qawsedf234]

You know, a lot of people are hating on the time travel tidbit but I'm not exactly seeing an easy solution for everyone Saitama ever cared about being murdered or dying from radiation poisoning.

The complaint, in my view, stems from an incorrect diagnosis of the issue.

What I mean is that people are complaining about time travel when they should complain about the plot making time travel needed. If Garou didn't emit super cancer the plot overall wouldn't change but they could still keep everyone alive. No time travel would be needed. By making Garou kill everyone they basically forced themselves into a time travel plot or a story where the bulk of the cast is now dead.

 

[LordTracer]

super cancer

I don’t know why, but I find the concept of “super cancer” being a power hilarious

 

[HammerStrikes219]

The complaint, in my view, stems from an incorrect diagnosis of the issue.

What I mean is that people are complaining about time travel when they should complain about the plot making time travel needed. If Garou didn't emit super cancer the plot overall wouldn't change but they could still keep everyone alive. No time travel would be needed. By making Garou kill everyone they basically forced themselves into a time travel plot or a story where the bulk of the cast is now dead.

Now if there is any future deaths that can not been undone by time travel, that will been interesting as temporal paradoxes hasn’t been addressed that much in fictional setting IIRC.

 

[Apeironaxim]

The complaint, in my view, stems from an incorrect diagnosis of the issue.

What I mean is that people are complaining about time travel when they should complain about the plot making time travel needed. If Garou didn't emit super cancer the plot overall wouldn't change but they could still keep everyone alive. No time travel would be needed. By making Garou kill everyone they basically forced themselves into a time travel plot or a story where the bulk of the cast is now dead.

technically the only confirmation that people were dead happened in 168, so one would only need to change that bit to fix it

 

[Qawsedf234]

technically the only confirmation that people were dead happened in 168, so one would only need to change that bit to fix it

True.

Now if there is any future deaths that can not been undone by time travel,

Well that's a big complaint for some shows that feature that power. If you can time travel without issue now people are going to ask "Why doesn't Saitama just time travel to prevent X?"

Though because Saitama has the memory of a goldfish he'll probably just forget how to do it or something.

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

what movies specifically? yes ik this isn't an mcu thread.

You really want me to air out the smoke?

 

[Dienomite22]

It wasn't lack luster, but it did what they didn't do with Boros: They made Garou into a joke.

This also isn't me deep throating Boros (this time), this is something Murata mentioned

That's another point that I do bring up but it is indeed lackluster. There was no proper build-up or reason for Garou to fight Saitama, you already mentioned Garou was treated as a joke, the main highlights were the same attacks (fajin) that only changed in scale, Garou completely lacked a will, and there was no notable art double page spreads besides the final fa jin attack that was still lacking in comparison to double spreads from other major fights even in this arc, the choreography and paneling were forgettable and hype wasn't there (at least imo).

Although I'm not a huge fan of the Cosmic Garou fight either I think we can all agree it was a better fight and covers most of the basis the monster Garou fight failed to.

 

[Magmag]

Pre-CF Garou just didn't have any dignity. Saitama was dicking around incredibly hard against him and he was just a joke. Which is a factor in the backlash they got in my view.

so ig the manga redraws still come from ONE.

The point is that once you stop treating death as serious the readers will also stop treating it serious. Its one of the largest complaints about DC/Marvel and say, Dragon Ball. Genos' death was a big event for Saitama, but it was quickly undone because they wrote themselves into a unfavorable situation.

but it is serious cuz as of right now(possibly new chapters will change this), saitama doesn't know he has the opportunity to clown around and change these stakes at will with time travel.

A lot of the redraws drawed out a long arc to be even longer and most of them, like with Sweet Mask for example, probably didn't need to be done in the first place.

i agree with the amai one but i feel like his eye being peirced was needed.

Other redraws like with Orochi just served as setup for future arcs and the entire Phoenix Man arc was just hyper cancer with the redraws.

i mean yeah, but orochi was destined to not even being the final boss of the arc in both wc and manga. phoenix man had like 5 redraws, that was unnecessary but ig ONE wanted wdm to have some build up rather than some weird powers later on out of nowhere.

But the big thing here: They didn't do that.

WebComic Garou never killed any human. The entire twist was that his thing was a front because he wanted to be a hero. The manga tried to keep that twist, wasn't subtle, had him mind controlled by another character to kill dozens of others and then gave Saitama time travel to undo all of that.

i mean we didn't know garou killed everyone until revealed this chapter, everyone assumed they got incapped. simply the only difference was subtleness.

Its not a 1:1 comparison here. You can like the manga while still noting its not perfect. The WebComic has its own pacing and writing issues when it comes to massive text dumps for example.

nothing is ever perfect but alot of these "issues" rely on wc ideals. i mean the wc massive text dumps are simply due to ONE not being the best artist.

Edit: the only issues i find with the manga rn is filler, filler chapters and filler moments which effects tone, mood and, build up, and some of the redraws.

 

[Magmag]

You really want me to air out the smoke?

yes lol

 

[CosmicWreck]

Lets not dog pile TGS for not liking the manga. You can disagree with their opinions without resorting to personal attacks or just ripping into them.

That's not really what they're arguing. The main issues I've seen is mostly just

• Extreme amounts of bloat or redundant material (Sage Centipede and Melted FU for example)

Melted FU, sure. I don't really understand the point of him.

Sage Centipede, no. Of all the centipedes he was the least redundant since he was clearly there as foreshadowing about god and how Saitama, as well as Garou, will relate to it as seen by the theme opposing "fists" that has basically been a staple for the last couple chapters.

• The manga elbow dropping the reader with statements that Garou's actually a good person

...they literally never say that. Saitama saw him kill Genos and still admitted Garou still has better heroic tendencies than him. WC readers just seem to hate the idea that maybe the characters involved are a little more complicated than the simple labels of good or evil which shouldn't be surprising. WC Garou had a similar conversation with Saitama, on the nature of good and evil.

• The mind control and time travel aspect just generally ruining stakes since almost no story does them well

As the franchise's first god level threat it would make sense that One and Murata feel like time travel is a pertinent option especially considering Garou must have destroyed the environment and killed tons of people.

• Multiple extreme redraws that change the plot heavily and result in even more redraws

I prefer that to hiatuses that last for years to be honest and they're less issues if they continue to better previous events or pull the story into interesting directions.

I've never really seen anyone complain about Tornado being slightly nicer or Garou murdering people, the issue is that they tried to keep the twist from the WebComic but weren't subtle about it.

Er, no. WC readers are very outspoken about the fact that the manga not following the WC story-line exactly annoys them so I have no idea which comment this is based off of. The recent chapters have almost nothing in common with what little I've seen of the WC.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

C

i agree with the amai one but i feel like his eye being peirced was needed.

can you link the redraws of amai? Kinda haven't seen it

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The Golden Smurf sucks not because he dislikes the Manga, it's because he looks down on anyone that does, spends copious amount of time fighting people who do on Reddit, Twitter, Discord and 4chan, to the detriment of his work ethic, to the point where for the last two months he's only drawn 13 pages of his Webcomic Ramia-Yana, which he wants to one day get published, instead the majority of his art in this period has been redrawns of OPM Webcomic pages and panels, all so he could post them on Reddit and claim he's better than Murata.

 

[IRizz21]

I hope it doesn't change much, but I want Saitama to use his speed for time travel , this will make the craziest feats ever in opm

 

[CosmicWreck]

The complaint, in my view, stems from an incorrect diagnosis of the issue.

What I mean is that people are complaining about time travel when they should complain about the plot making time travel needed. If Garou didn't emit super cancer the plot overall wouldn't change but they could still keep everyone alive. No time travel would be needed. By making Garou kill everyone they basically forced themselves into a time travel plot or a story where the bulk of the cast is now dead.

Oh yeah, sure. I do agree that they wrote themselves into a corner with that one. Hopefully the next god level threats are handled in more careful and innovative ways.

 

[Magmag]

C

can you link the redraws of amai? Kinda haven't seen it

idk where to find them besides the current amai chapter, sorry. the best place would be asking someone on reddit.

 

[Dienomite22]

...they literally never say that.

Are you saying the repeated statements from heroes, non-heroes, Garou's actions pre-cosmic, Saitama gaslighting him to be a hero, and monster Garou suddenly accidentally saving people out of nowhere through some bs luck aren't examples of ONE and Murata hammering the idea of Garou being a good guy into our heads?

 

[Swerzye29038]

Wait for the next chapter before giving out abilities based on a singular and vague ass occurrence. ByAsura suggested it earlier and yet nobody listened.

Lol, I don't think you know what "vague" means. Nothing shown in this chapter is vague in any sense, most of it is pretty straight forward

 

[Qawsedf234]

Of all the centipedes he was the least redundant since he was clearly there as foreshadowing about god

Foreshadowing isn't when something happens a couple chapters later. That's just setup. Though I guess that's more personal feeling than anything.

...they literally never say that.

That was a bulk complain I saw regarding Garou. It really flared up when him and Metal Bat teamed up and you had random people like Suiryu say that Garou was didn't have any evil radiating from him or whatever.

Garou still has better heroic tendencies than him.

Yeah, that's the problem people have. Its even more statements saying Garou is good person.

WC Garou had a similar conversation with Saitama, on the nature of good and evil.

WebComic Garou had a rant that Saitama was not an actual hero because he didn't possess any traits of what a hero should be, which is when the twist happened and it was shown that Garou himself had an ideal version of a hero. Its not like, ground breaking but it also wasn't in your face about it through twenty chapters.

As the franchise's first god level threat it would make sense that One and Murata feel like time travel is a pertinent option especially considering Garou must have destroyed the environment and killed tons of people.

I'll just repost what I said earlier

What I mean is that people are complaining about time travel when they should complain about the plot making time travel needed. If Garou didn't emit super cancer the plot overall wouldn't change but they could still keep everyone alive. No time travel would be needed. By making Garou kill everyone they basically forced themselves into a time travel plot or a story where the bulk of the cast is now dead.

Time travel just is never handled very well since it wasn't handled well in OPM either. There's ways to finish the plot without killing everyone off and still bringing Genos back that doesn't involve time travel.

As a note when Saitama did go back in time to Chapter 163, after he and Garou had ****** up the Earth in the first place.

I prefer that to hiatuses that last for years to be honest and they're less issues if they continue to better previous events or pull the story into interesting directions.

I can respect that personal opinion, but stuff like Phoenix Man shouldn't have been redrawn like four times with radically different outcomes every time.

WC readers are very outspoken about the fact that the manga not following the WC story-line

Yeah, I've seen those complaints. Guess I should've specified that I was talking about substance complaints rather than just "Well its different so its bad" complaints that some people have.

 

[LordGinSama]

Lol, I don't think you know what "vague" means. Nothing shown in this chapter is vague in any sense, most of it is pretty straight forward

Feel free to show me what "pretty straightforward." means then.


Oh wait you can't since it was barely explained. It's called having patience and not taking every single opportunity you get for an unjustified upgrade. Your ulterior motives are showing.

 

[Dienomite22]

I'm still wondering why the Blastvengers weren't protecting Earth when Garou and Saitama made it back to Earth after Blast heard Garou speak about wanting to be a symbol of fear and watch how humans fear him.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'm still wondering why the Blastvengers weren't protecting Earth

Well the only interest they would have with the Earth would be preventing God from reawakening. God comes from another time as well, so maybe they're like, scoping out other timelines or something to make sure God doesn't break its seal.

 

[Dienomite22]

Well the only interest they would have with the Earth would be preventing God from reawakening. God comes from another time as well, so maybe they're like, scoping out other timelines or something to make sure God doesn't break its seal.

I mean that's possible but headcanon as of right now and it would still leave the problem of Saitama and Garou going back to Earth as an issue for the Blastvengers.

If there was a reason for them not being there it should've been hinted at in the last chapter or before.

 

[CosmicWreck]

Are you saying the repeated statements from heroes, non-heroes, Garou's actions pre-cosmic, Saitama gaslighting him to be a hero, and monster Garou suddenly accidentally saving people out of nowhere through some bs luck aren't examples of ONE and Murata hammering the idea of Garou being a good guy into our heads?

As I already pointed out, Murata already went into that whole thing with his flashbacks showing that Garou simply views heroes/monsters through the lens of the entitled and victimized due to his troubled childhood thus his acts of villainy were to "save" them from the inborn hatred stemming from the violent hero system.

Murata has already paved the way for a character heel-face turn long before any of that so acting like Garou being anything other than pure evil is odd is mind bogling to me.

Foreshadowing isn't when something happens a couple chapters later. That's just setup. Though I guess that's more personal feeling than anything.

Foreshadowing can happen as recent as at the beginning of a chapter so....

That was a bulk complain I saw regarding Garou. It really flared up when him and Metal Bat teamed up and you had random people like Suiryu say that Garou was didn't have any evil radiating from him or whatever.

A bulk complain that ignored all the previous evidences that stated similar, and ignores the future facts like Monster Garou still choosing to cripple people right after.

Yeah, that's the problem people have. Its even more statements saying Garou is good person.

By labeling him good or evil, you're ignoring the bad and good things he's done. There's no point to doing that. You're basically arguing that Garou doesn't suit what you're expecting of him despite Murata already setting up an entire character arc supporting every interpretation. It just doesn't make sense.

WebComic Garou had a rant that Saitama was not an actual hero because he didn't possess any traits of what a hero should be, which is when the twist happened and it was shown that Garou himself had an ideal version of a hero. Its not like, ground breaking but it also wasn't in your face about it through twenty chapters.

It also went into detail that Garou wanted to actually be a hero, but he decided being a villain was simply easier so he chose to go down that path.

Ironically, WC readers should have been the least annoyed with things like Saitama pointing out how Garou contradicts himself since from even a WC standpoint it kind of makes sense.

I'll just repost what I said earlier

Time travel just is never handled very well since it wasn't handled well in OPM either. There's ways to finish the plot without killing everyone off and still bringing Genos back that doesn't involve time travel.

If this is in regards to the previous quote to me, I already responded to and even agreed that they wrote themselves into a corner.

As a note when Saitama did go back in time to Chapter 163, after he and Garou had ****** up the Earth in the first place.

Not really. Garou didn't start to radiate until a bit later. They were earlier fighting over the ocean.

I can respect that personal opinion, but stuff like Phoenix Man shouldn't have been redrawn like four times with radically different outcomes every time.

Something like that seems more to do with Murata's perfectionism than anything else so I think it would be unfair for me to agree there.

Yeah, I've seen those complaints. Guess I should've specified that I was talking about substance complaints rather than just "Well its different so its bad" complaints that some people have.

Fair.

 

[Swerzye29038]

I’m kinda pissed that Saitama became even more godly. It feels redundant that suddenly Saitama is this master martial artist who can replicate techniques easily, even though there was next to no build-up on this. The series heavily implies he’s just an average joe with nothing but power to back him up.

The series implications on Saitama's power were incredibly vague up until this point, with only small hints and references being dropped here and there. The recent chapter simply elaborated on his power and explained how it works more.

It doesn’t really make much sense that Saitama could be skilled at copying techniques when he’s got no training.

Saitama broke his limiter on a slightly above average training regimen. Nothing about his power is even slightly realistic, I'm not sure why him being able to copy abilities sticks out as particularly troubling narrative wise to you? BTW, I wasn't a big fan of the latest chapters narrative wise either, but the small hints we were given previously about his power have always been loose in nature and badly elaborated on.

Even if breaking his limiter gave him enhanced senses and resistances, I don’t see how that would translate to fighting ability.

Why would it not? Saitama's power is clearly supernatural in nature, despite being vague. Why are learning abilities off limits?

 

[Dienomite22]

As I already pointed out, Murata already went into that whole thing with his flashbacks showing that Garou simply views heroes/monsters through the lens of the entitled and victimized due to his troubled childhood thus his acts of villainy were to "save" them from the inborn hatred stemming from the violent hero system.

Whatever you just said is irrelevant to the fact that Garou being good was beaten over our heads far too much ever since he fought Bang.

 

[Swerzye29038]

Oh wait you can't since it was barely explained.

What was "barely explained"? What exactly are you referring to?

It's called having patience and not taking every single opportunity you get for an unjustified upgrade.

Once again, no clue what "unjustified upgrade" you're referring to. I never rooted for any upgrade in particular in this thread

Your ulterior motives are showing.

LOL

 

[Qawsedf234]

A bulk complain that ignored all the previous evidences that stated similar, and ignores the future facts like Monster Garou still choosing to cripple people right after.

The complaint isn't about a tell and don't show issue. The complaint is to much telling along with showing. If Garou accidently saved people without stopping the story to make a note about it I feel like there would be less of an issue around it (people would still complain but everything has people complaining about it in some way). But when you have a fight stop multiple times to just show him saving people and then have Saitama say "Whoa nice job saving people man" then its just beating you over the head with it.

By labeling him good or evil, you're ignoring the bad and good things he's done.

Again, I feel like your missing the complaint. Its not about a lack of nuance or that he's just Good/Evil. Garou has always been a grey character who's never killed another person (though he has crippled at least one or two). The issue is that instead of organically showing it the plot tells you he's actually a good person (or at least not evil) directly multiple times by multiple different people.

WC readers should have been the least annoyed

I feel like you're debating against a strawman version of a angry WebComic reader here.

The complaint is about the nuance and control Garou has between the versions. The Webcomic was all him and was subtle. The manga wasn't subtle and he was mind controlled later on.

Not really. Garou didn't start to radiate until a bit later.

The environment was damaged before then. Garou had dropped kick Saitama into a continent like a chapter ago and made multiple horizon spanning explosions. The most he did after that was fight Blast who BFR'ed his radiation punches into the ocean and kill everyone around him with super cancer.

Murata's perfectionism

I don't think that's his style perfectionism. That's not him changing a design because it looks better like with Brave Giant or Goketsu. This is active plot changes and story changes. Its either him or ONE wanting to adjust the story and causing a large series of delay because of it.

 

[Dienomite22]

Ironically, WC readers should have been the least annoyed with things like Saitama pointing out how Garou contradicts himself since from even a WC standpoint it kind of makes sense.

Maybe because one version worked in their eyes while the other version didn't

 

[UltimateDarkGod666]

If only Saitama's "growth" wasn't time paradox'd out of existence

What if Saitama after Garou fight become so powerful that not even the reverse of time itself can affect his strength?

 

[Dienomite22]

What if Saitama after Garou fight become so powerful that not even the reverse of time itself can affect his strength?

Unfortunately, I wouldn't care.

 

[Swerzye29038]

Did you actually read the chapter? The mechanics of Saitama's time travel is explained and showcased in explicit detail. Garou taught Saitama how to time travel by manipulating subatomic particles, and Saitama selected the time period he wanted to enter, which was before the fight had started. After that he simply went up to Garou and knocked his lights out.

The act of him punching fast is not what made time travel, it was by copying Garou. The statement was meant to be metaphorical, not taken literally. Neither immeasurable or Infinite speed is applicable here, not even close.

 

[Tago238]

Genos could be fixed by Kusano-ex machina or something, but that'd be just another plot device, though whether it'd be better or worse than time travel is up to interpretation and actual execution. Radiation poisoning could be relieved by people like Bofoi building hyper advanced radiation therapy stuff, with perhaps some random hero who specializes in toxic waste cleanup who can absorb radiation or something also helping. There's other ways to do it, it just depends on if its done well

Fubuki can also heal people.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Though as a note, despite my arguments I still generally like everything regarding the MA arc and it'll be better on a binge or volume read. I just feel like it has flaws that we shouldn't dismiss because some people happen to be salty about some version differences.

The act of him punching fast is not what made time travel, it was by copying Garou. The statement was meant to be metaphorical, not taken literally. Neither immeasurable or Infinite speed is applicable here, not even close.

Yeah, Saitama's showing there wasn't Immeasurable speed. At least no more immeasurable than any other selective time travel feat.

 

[UltimateDarkGod666]

Unfortunately, I wouldn't care.

Like imagine if someone reverses time 5 years and Saitama's power still doesn't disappear, ordinary human Saitama wakes up to find himself a god out of nowhere is gonna be weird

 

[Alexander]

Did you actually read the chapter? The mechanics of Saitama's time travel is explained and showcased in explicit detail. Garou taught Saitama how to time travel by manipulating subatomic particles, and Saitama selected the time period he wanted to enter, which was before the fight had started. After that he simply went up to Garou and knocked his lights out.

The act of him punching fast is not what made time travel, it was by copying Garou. The statement was meant to be metaphorical, not taken literally. Neither immeasurable or Infinite speed is applicable here, not even close.

everything garou says is too literal

 

[RinneItachi]

Looks like a debate's happening. Here's a stupid Quora take to help distract you from the chaos.

 

[LordTracer]

Saying “a stupid Quora take” seems redundant when every take there is stupid