STRONGEST One-Punch Man Discussion Thread!

[Qawsedf234]

You are the one who needs to prove that the characters that damaged a low 7-B character aren't low 7-B with piercing.

You're moving the goal posts Ziller. Provide a feat or drop it.

To add though:

• Golden Ball has his projectiles deflected by someone Tomboy pierces without damage their limb
• The various C and B Class people aren't mentioned as having any notably stronger projectiles
• Death Gatling is the only one with a gun that scales to 9-A or above and just deflects the bullets wrecked Garou's hands
• Stinger never once failed at cutting Garou's skin and he gets one tapped by DSK

If you cannot disprove that point, then it Garou's durability falls under our piercing durability section of the durability. Like with Wonder Woman, we just don't scale piercing attacks to his standard durability or AP.

I am so sick of this. When did we get to the point where a character that damages a low 7-B character can't scale to low 7-B without more proof.

Wonder Woman is planetary. Wonder Woman can also be shot by a Glock. We don't rate glocks as planet-busting, we say that you can't scale piercing attacks to Wonder Woman's durability for profiling. This has been a thing for years Ziller, its not anything new.

 

[ByAsura]

Let's put this into another perspective.

Stinger (who's above these characters) got wrecked by DSK, and heavily damaged by his way weaker subordinates.

Garou is stronger than a version of (prior to his G4 upgrades, but after the Alien Conqueror arc) Genos that could kill Hydrated DSK with a volley.

Garou at full power >>>>> DSK >>>>> almost all of these characters.

Also, characters with this level of combat power, like Fudonoshi and Iaian, are specifically the highest ranking A-Class and separated from pretty much everyone else through dialogue and feats. It makes no sense for most of these characters (except Mustachio, since he holds back) to be anywhere near most S-Class.

 

[Damage3245]

I like how this looks from a consistency viewpoint.

Garou gets hurt by piercing attacks from multiple low-tier characters. Clearly it is the multiple significantly weaker characters who are in need of an upgrade, and not a case of Garou being vulnerable to their attacks....

The solution to everything isn't always just auto-scale the characters and upgrade them without even considering alternatives.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

yeah ik
that's why I said high 7-A instead of 6-C

The whole 6-C and High 7-A scaling is getting axed because Garou's 6-C calc is bunk and Golden Sperm/Platinum Speen aren't directly scaling to Homeless Emperor's High 7-A ball (I don't think so, anyway)

 

[TheRustyOne]

Wonder Woman is planetary. Wonder Woman can also be shot by a Glock. We don't rate glocks as planet-busting, we say that you can't scale piercing attacks to Wonder Woman's durability for profiling. This has been a thing for years Ziller, its not anything new.

What does this mean for versus threads? Ignoring the fact this is wonder woman. Do we assume the character in question can easily be harmed by a character from multiplier tiers lower because they have a sharp weapon like a sword or gun? Is this also not the text book definition of an outlier?

Back to the question, can a 8-A character or whatever stab Garou if they use a sword/sharp weapon?

 

[Qawsedf234]

What does this mean for versus threads?

For versus threads, if its an accepted weakness/vulnerability, it means that the character isn't defaulted to realistically withstand a slashing attack.

To use an example, John Wick shooting Boros assumes Boros is unharmed, because his durability defaults to standard assumptions on pressure.

John Wick shooting Garou would have Garou get damaged if the bullet hits him.

8-A character or whatever stab Garou if they use a sword/sharp weapon?

Yes

EDIT: I should mention that this would only apply to Human Garou. His stronger and more armored forms would require independent evidence that he's still weaker to piercing attacks than he should be.

 

[ByAsura]

I wouldn't say Garou is vulnerable to normal ass bullets, at least. He's never been harmed by a C-Class.

 

[LordTracer]

Current chapter says otherwise mrk

HAHAHAHA! NOT JUST 1 HE GOT 2 OF THEM HAHAHAHA LE SUCK IT

Genuine question, did you actually read the chapter? Because literally nothing there implied that there was a romance between Saitama and Tatsumaki.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I wouldn't say Garou is vulnerable to normal ass bullets, at least. He's never been harmed by a C-Class.

Yeah, I agree. My point was that Garou has shown a consistent vulnerability to sharp objects, even when they're used by radically weaker people like B-Class heroes. So we shouldn't scale people to his standard durability just because they happen to cut him.

 

[Recon1511]

I wouldn't say Garou is vulnerable to normal ass bullets, at least. He's never been harmed by a C-Class.

I think he did get pierced by Gun-Gun weapon and that one looks like a normal revolver

 

[ZillertheBucko]

You're moving the goal posts Ziller. Provide a feat or drop it.

To add though:

• Golden Ball has his projectiles deflected by someone Tomboy pierces without damage their limb

This has no relevance on garou. All it shows is that golden ball's projectiles are weaker than tomboy.

• The various C and B Class people aren't mentioned as having any notably stronger projectiles

And they don't have to be mentiond as such if their power is directly shown.

• Death Gatling is the only one with a gun that scales to 9-A or above and just deflects the bullets wrecked Garou's hands

not really sure what you meant by this one, but again there's nothing here even remotely supporting that death gatling's bullets shouldn't be able to do this

• Stinger never once failed at cutting Garou's skin and he gets one tapped by DSK

Stinger's physicals don't scale to the bamboo stick, and the entire fight was literally the aftermath of him getting one shot in a single panel
we literally see nothing showing dsk withstanding a direct attack from stinger
this evidence of yours is offensively bad and makes no attempt to actually support the idea that garou has any special weakness to being pierced.

Wonder Woman is planetary. Wonder Woman can also be shot by a Glock. We don't rate glocks as planet-busting, we say that you can't scale piercing attacks to Wonder Woman's durability for profiling. This has been a thing for years Ziller, its not anything new.

If that's the case then that is insanely stupid as shit, because that is the most obvious number one example of an outlier.

Let's put this into another perspective.

Stinger (who's above these characters) got wrecked by DSK, and heavily damaged by his way weaker subordinates.

Garou is stronger than a version of (prior to his G4 upgrades, but after the Alien Conqueror arc) Genos that could kill Hydrated DSK with a volley.

Garou at full power >>>>> DSK >>>>> almost all of these characters.

Also, characters with this level of combat power, like Fudonoshi and Iaian, are specifically the highest ranking A-Class and separated from pretty much everyone else through dialogue and feats. It makes no sense for most of these characters (except Mustachio, since he holds back) to be anywhere near most S-Class.

Stinger's spear literally never even touches deep sea king. Also, it already scales to high 7-C to begin with, so we know it would have damaged him anyways
this is insanity.

I like how this looks from a consistency viewpoint.

Garou gets hurt by piercing attacks from multiple low-tier characters. Clearly it is the multiple significantly weaker characters who are in need of an upgrade, and not a case of Garou being vulnerable to their attacks....

The solution to everything isn't always just auto-scale the characters and upgrade them without even considering alternatives.

Characters that have no showing of having their piercing being weaker than garou, no kind of anti feat or scaling or anything that could suggest that they can't have low 7-B piercing.
It's as if you're choosing to be as ignorant as possible here.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I think he did get pierced by Gun-Gun weapon and that one looks like a normal revolver

zombieman has a high 7-C gun which is literally just a desert eagle.
in fact, guns in opm would have to automatically be 9-B or high into 9-C to damage regular humans anyways
regular gun argument does not apply

 

[Damage3245]

If that's the case then that is insanely stupid as shit, because that is the most obvious number one example of an outlier.

If we're talking outliers now, then Garou being hurt by weaker piercing/cutting attacks is far more consistent than all those attacks suddenly being Small City level.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Is this also not the text book definition of an outlier?

DC writers just unironically made sharp objects Wonder Woman’s Kryptonite at the time. Though that’s no longer the case for her current iteration.

Wolverine also has 2-C Piercing Attacks, comics are just dumb.

 

[ByAsura]

Stinger's spear literally never even touches deep sea king. Also, it already scales to high 7-C to begin with, so we know it would have damaged him anyways
this is insanity.

Not talking about his spear. His body alone is stronger than most of these people and their weaponry through scaling.

As for his spear scaling to Garou, I'm neutral on that, but I just disagree with everyone else except for maybe Chain'n'toad since it's implied he did crack some bones.

 

[LordTracer]

Wolverine also has 2-C Piercing Attacks, comics are just dumb.

Tbf that’s less because of piercing damage and moreso because Adamantium is really strong.

 

[Qawsedf234]

This has no relevance on garou.

It does, because it means characters weaker than Garou can physically deflect the attack without damage

And they don't have to be mentiond as such if their power is directly shown.

That would be something if Garou had any feats that supported resistance against piercing attacks. As such they're evidence he's vulnerable to that attack vector.

not really sure what you meant by this one

Death Gatling's bullets shredded Garou's hands, despite the fact that he deflected them which means he wouldn't need to take the full brunt of their kinetic energy.

Stinger's physicals don't scale to the bamboo stick,

Stinger is physically inferior to Garou and his weapon consistently pierces Garou every time. This is important, as his spear head is literally just bamboo his family grows on a farm and isn't manufactured.

If that's the case then that is insanely stupid as shit, because that is the most obvious number one example of an outlier.

It's not an outlier if it consistently happens. Then its just something we have to deal with.

this evidence of yours is offensively bad and makes no attempt to actually support the idea that garou has any special weakness to being pierced.

Provide a feat Ziller.

 

[Qawsedf234]

DC writers just unironically made sharp objects Wonder Woman’s Kryptonite at the time. Though that’s no longer the case for her current iteration.

Her current iteration has been shot and nearly killed three times now. The only time she's been bulletproof recently was with a Cheetah arc.

 

[Maitreya12]

Tbf…yeah it does seem Garou has a weakness to piercing damage…

Even when he labeled himself as a dragon level threat, he was still able to be completely skewered by royal ripper. Keep in mind RR’s slashes couldn’t even make a dent on BASE bug god, a demon level threat. Yet it was completely able to go right through Garou, despite him being able to tank and survive attacks from Dragon level threats that totally annihilate other demon level monsters.

So it seems the argument that Garou is weak to piercing attacks does have merit to it. Or at least a solid basis in the manga. Dude is only human after all.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Not talking about his spear. His body alone is stronger than most of these people through scaling.

As for his spear scaling to Garou, I'm neutral on that, but I just disagree with everyone else except for maybe Chain'n'toad since it's implied he did crack some bones.

The death Gatling squad being 9-B and 9-A always ticked me off a bit since the gap between high 7-C and 9-B is astronomical, to the point where they shouldn’t even be able to make a weakened Garou move an inch with their strongest attacks, yet you have glasses being able to stagger him and fend him off with a punch, chain n toad damaging him, him being damaged by their arrows and guns, and getting damaged by the spear. This is the same Garou that still has the strength to dodge attacks from genos despite losing stamina from the fight against death Gatling’s team.

 

[ByAsura]

For the most part, they aren't the same. He used Bang's breathing technique and the poison stopped affecting him, allowing him to totally dominate all those heroes.

That's not to say his durability increases, though. I'm just being pernickety.

 

[Epiccheev]

Garou has the same weakness as Baki characters where his skin can still get pierced by stuff like darts and shotgun fire, but it's hard to put him down with just that.

 

[Recon1511]

The death Gatling squad being 9-B and 9-A always ticked me off a bit since the gap between high 7-C and 9-B is astronomical, to the point where they shouldn’t even be able to make a weakened Garou move an inch with their strongest attacks, yet you have glasses being able to stagger him and fend him off with a punch, chain n toad damaging him, him being damaged by their arrows and guns, and getting damaged by the spear. This is the same Garou that still has the strength to dodge attacks from genos despite losing stamina from the fight against death Gatling’s team.

The only one that deserves to scale there is Glasses and even then it's a wacky justification since he gets absolutely bodied by Garou

 

[Bernkastelll]

wait so, what is the default assumption? the default assumption is "the character is unharmed" or "the character can be hurt"?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Tbf…yeah it does seem Garou has a weakness to piercing damage…

Even when he labeled himself as a dragon level threat, he was still able to be completely skewered by royal ripper. Keep in mind RR’s slashes couldn’t even make a dent on BASE bug god, a demon level threat. Yet it was completely able to go right through Garou, despite him being able to tank and survive attacks from Dragon level threats that totally annihilate other demon level monsters.

So it seems the argument that Garou is weak to piercing attacks does have merit to it. Or at least a solid basis in the manga. Dude is only human after all.

Timeline inconsistencies
half monster Garou was the one that declared himself dragon level, not human Garou
he also proceeded to get his ass handed to him by Rover to humble him for saying that, so there’s that too.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

So would Garou just get folded by Snipe speed equalized?

 

[Qawsedf234]

wait so, what is the default assumption?

The default assumption is that a character's durability will behave as it would IRL. So no gun could ever harm Saitama for example. Because at 4-A durability no projectile would have enough pressure to damage him. But if a weaker character (let's say 10x or something) were to use a sword, the sword would allow them to damage Saitama because of the concentrated attack.

The exception is if there's a notable amount of evidence that a piercing attack can harm a character, then we don't scale their durability to sharp objects.

 

[Damage3245]

wait so, what is the default assumption? the default assumption is "the character is unharmed" or "the character can be hurt"?

The default assumption should be that a character could possibly be harmed by weaker attacks, if they're concentrated into a finer area - but the threshold for this becomes more untenable the higher tier a character becomes, and depends on the weapon of choice, the opposing character, etc.

If a character has feats of bullets bouncing off their skin harmlessly, that's great and that helps raise the threshold.

If the character is shown being nicked by a guy wielding a machete, that's not so great and that lowers the threshold.

And so on. There is no absolute rule when it comes to this because how fiction depicts it can vary a lot.

 

[Qawsedf234]

So would Garou just get folded by Snipe?

Nah, to fast and skilled. He'd just bounce the projectiles into a wall or something.

 

[Recon1511]

So would Garou just get folded by Snipe?

He should be able to deflect his bullets with WSRF just like he did against Golden Ball

 

[ByAsura]

I've made a thread to downgrade Garou's speed.

 

[Maitreya12]

Timeline inconsistencies
half monster Garou was the one that declared himself dragon level, not human Garou
he also proceeded to get his ass handed to him by Rover to humble him for saying that, so there’s that too.

…,what?

Half monster Garou was the one who got skewered by Royal Ripper. He quite literally declared himself a dragon level threat actually the minute he broke Tareo free from RR’s grasp.

Garou still straight up tanked multiple bombardments of Rover’s attacks while just a single blast annihilated two other demon level threats.

Should we scale Royal Ripper to Rover just cause he could skewer Garou? The same Royal Ripper that couldn’t even make a dent on base bug god’s body? It makes no sense.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

…,what?

Half monster Garou was the one who got skewered by Royal Ripper. He quite literally declared himself a dragon level threat actually the minute he broke Tareo free from RR’s grasp.

Garou still straight up tanked multiple bombardments of Rover’s attacks while just a single blast annihilated two other demon level threats.

Should we scale Royal Ripper to Rover just cause he could skewer Garou? The same Royal Ripper that couldn’t even make a dent on base bug god’s body? It makes no sense.

He evolved after fighting royal ripper, and was still clearly heavily damaged by rover despite that
so just no

 

[Maitreya12]

He evolved after fighting royal ripper, and was still clearly heavily damaged by rover despite that
so just no

He literally declared himself a dragon level threat right after fighting RR. So he didn’t “evolve” then. Like what point in time are you claiming Garou evolved.

 

[TheRustyOne]

One more question from me. Important for a future verse I'm trying to work on.

If a character is shown to be bullet proof. Example: Character A walks through a barrage of bullets fired from multiple guns as if they don't exist.

These weren't pistols either, they're high caliber weapons used by the military. Kind of like this scene from Invincible.

But are stabbed/sliced by Character B's blade, and not because they stabbed the eyes or something. Does Character B's blade scales to Character A's durability?

Note: Not suggesting that Character B's physical strength scales to Character A's durability, just the sharpness of their weapon. Or is that not how it works?

 

[Qawsedf234]

But are stabbed/sliced by Character B's blade, and not because they stabbed the eyes or something. Does Character B's blade scales to Character A's durability?

The point I was making is that Garou has never shown evidence that he can take a sharp attack and not get cut. Then showed every instance of him interacting with a sharp attack from a notably weaker person and getting hurt in some fashion.

If the character is shown to withstand/take piercing damage and not get injured, and then be hurt by a weapon from another character, then it means that the character isn't specially vulnerable to sharp things.

In that case, the character would physically downscale though. Since swords > fists.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

let me get this straight, we by default assume that characters don't have an extreme weakness to being pierced
and at the same time, the burden of proof is on me to prove that garou isn't extremely weak to getting pierced
...absolutely bullshit

 

[ByAsura]

I think he means the burden of proof is now on you since he's provided evidence that you should address, or something like that.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I think he means the burden of proof is now on you since he's provided evidence that you should address, or something like that.

the entirety of the proof is "check out all the times garou has been pierced"
it's not proof. We would just default to assuming all of these situations are scaling to him unless actual proof is shown
a pretty blatant violation of the claim that bulletproof is the default assumption

 

[Qawsedf234]

let me get this straight, we by default assume that characters don't have an extreme weakness to being pierced
and at the same time, the burden of proof is on me to prove that garou isn't extremely weak to getting pierced
...absolutely bullshit

No, Asura answered this

I think he means the burden of proof is now on you since he's provided evidence that you should address, or something like that.

But to explain it step by step

• We default to assume a character isn't oddly weak to piercing damage
• I made the claim Garou was
• You said to give proof
• I gave multiple interactions where Garou was harmed by people by piercing attacks
• The ball is now in your court to counter my claims or provide counter evidence that Garou isn't oddly weak to piercing damage

The issue being, Garou has zero feats of being resistant to piercing damage. So there's nothing you could provide to counter my claims.

it's not proof.

That's literally proof. He's harmed by characters hundreds of thousands of times weaker than he is when they use sharp objects.