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Steven Universe - The Biggest CRT (and also my last one)

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Vizer04 said:
Also, Steven should have MFTL+ combat speed since he deflected White's Light (she has MFTL+ Attack Speed)

The Corruption Light is composed of each Diamond's Light (physical for Yellow, emotional for Blue and mental for White). Steven deflected White's Light.
Click to expand...

We do not have any evidence that White's eye-beams travel at the same speed as the Corrupting Light. Moreover, upon scrolling back up through all the discussion in these threads, I saw that it was decided that even if we could assume that, then in this case we'd consider Pink Steven reacting to it to be an outlier.

I understand why you are so dedicated to trying to get this done. The power of SU as a verse is... downplayed, to say the least. I am a big fan of it too, so I fully understand. But what you need to consider is that VsBattles wiki has very, very rigorous standards of proof, and none of these arguments other than the ones for Blue's, White's, and Yellow's attack-speed and range actually live up to those rigorous standards that we have here on VsBattles.

I understand why this is frustrating: Yes, Lapis is probably a moon-buster (more like planetary actually since she scaled to Diamonds enough times for that to not be an outlier for her), and yes, the Diamonds are probably at-least-planetary. I understand that you put a lot of time and effort into these CRT's hoping to change things, and don't want all those efforts to have been mostly a waste. However, we can't just bend and warp the standards of how proof works on VsBattles just so that us SU fans, fans of one particular verse, can get our way. Like the rest of us who are into power-scaling in the SU fan-base, you're going to HAVE to just let it go, dude. Try taking some of the lessons that we were taught by stuff like Steven's and the Diamonds' character-arcs in the series, and applying them here: You can't just force things to go your way and conform to your will if they aren't meant to be that way. And keep this in mind:

Rebecca Sugar is not a power-scaler and does not care that we are; she couldn't give a rat's ass about math or physics, clearly even less-so than many other creators of sci-fi verses. This verse is condemned to sitting in "At Least Tier 6" Hell unless Rebecca ever releases some further material with some more-conclusive feats in it. Again, we as a fanbase will just have to let it go.
 
Goodyfresh said:
in this case we'd consider Pink Steven reacting to it to be an outlier
Click to expand...
Why?
Goodyfresh said:
I understand why you are so dedicated to trying to get this done. The power of SU as a verse is... downplayed, to say the least. I am a big fan of it too, so I fully understand. But what you need to consider is that VsBattles wiki has very, very rigorous standards of proof, and none of these arguments other than the ones for Blue's, White's, and Yellow's attack-speed and range actually live up to those rigorous standards that we have here on VsBattles.

I understand why this is frustrating: Yes, Lapis is probably a moon-buster (more like planetary actually since she scaled to Diamonds enough times for that to not be an outlier for her), and yes, the Diamonds are probably at-least-planetary. I understand that you put a lot of time and effort into these CRT's hoping to change things, and don't want all those efforts to have been mostly a waste. However, we can't just bend and warp the standards of how proof works on VsBattles just so that us SU fans, fans of one particular verse, can get our way. Like the rest of us who are into power-scaling in the SU fan-base, you're going to HAVE to just let it go, dude. Try taking away some of the lessons that we were taught by stuff like Steven's and the Diamonds' character-arcs in the series, and applying them here: You can't just force things to go your way and conform to your will if they aren't meant to be that way. And keep this in mind:

Rebecca Sugar is not a power-scaler and does not care that we are; she couldn't give a rat's ass about math or physics, clearly even less-so than many other creators of sci-fi verses. This verse is condemned to sitting in "At Least Tier 6" Hell unless Rebecca ever releases some further material with some more-conclusive feats in it. Again, we as a fanbase will just have to let it go.
Click to expand...
spongebob-spongebob-cry.gif
 
Sorry to cut in, but blaming the wiki for not accepting calculations that are judged to be inaccurate or nonsensical is not a rigorous standard. That’s just basic logic. There are things that vs wiki is rigid on but that’s because this is an indexing site, not a debate channel.

Literally just prove what you’re saying is more accurate than what the wiki is currently acknowledging. If you can’t do that, that’s not the wikis fault.
 
Vizer04 said:
Why?

spongebob-spongebob-cry.gif
Click to expand...

Essentially, Steven reacting to an MFTL+ attack is so, so far removed from all other combat-speed feats in the franchise/verse that it precisely fits the definition of "outlier" if that really was what happened. What's actually more likely is that White's mind-beams might not have the same speed as the Corrupting Light; although to be fair they were able to speed-blitz Blue and Yellow, so who knows? But regardless, anyone having MFTL+ reactions or combat-speed in the verse is a massive outlier if it only happened this one single time.

As I said, I do fully understand how and why this overall situation is frustrating/upsetting. It's been obvious ever since "Ocean Gem" in Season 1 that the god-tiers are almost surely Tier 5. But condemning the verse to Tier 6 Hell (this is something that happens quite commonly on this wiki, actually, due to the large gap between the low-end and high-end of High 6-A) is unfortunately necessary because arguments relying on "vague upscaling" (i.e. "Lapis performed that feat casually, for hours on end, while weakened to the point that she was literally dying, so she must be thousands of times that level" would be a "vague upscaling" argument) are not permissible via VsB site rules. And we can't use a calc that isn't accepted, and there are very good reasons for not accepting the calc that places the Corrupting Light as being 4-B because of how little we know about the actual true nature and intent of the Corrupting Light attack.

Unfortunately, Rebecca Sugar and Ian JQ, who never cared about mathematical consistency in this series anyway (just look at the character-heights, yeesh), never showed us any feats that can be conclusively proven as being above High 6-A. So that is the Hell in which the verse is stuck on this particular wiki and forum.
 
Goodyfresh said:
Essentially, Steven reacting to an MFTL+ attack is so, so far removed from all other combat-speed feats in the franchise/verse that it pretty much precisely fits the definition of "outlier" if that really was what happened. What's actually more likely is that White's mind-beams might not have the same speed as the Corrupting Light; although to be fair they were able to speed-blitz Blue and Yellow, so who knows? But regardless, anyone having MFTL+ reactions or combat-speed in the verse is a massive outlier if it only happened this one single time.
Click to expand...
Steven is the God Tier of the verse tho...
Goodyfresh said:
As I said, I do fully understand how and why this overall situation is frustrating/upsetting. It's been obvious ever since "Ocean Gem" in Season 1 that the god-tiers of the verse are almost surely Tier 5. But condemning the verse to Tier 6 Hell (this is something that happens quite commonly on this wiki, actually, due to the large gap between the low-end and high-end of High 6-A) is unfortunately necessary because arguments relying on "vague upscaling" (i.e. "Lapis performed that feat casually, for hours on end, while weakened to the point that she was literally dying, so she must be thousands of times that level" would be a "vague upscaling" argument) are not permissible via VsB site rules. And we can't use a calc that isn't accepted, and there are very, very good reasons for not accepting the calc that places the Corrupting Light as being 4-B because of how little we know about the actual true nature and intent of the Corrupting Light attack.

Unfortunately, Rebecca Sugar and Ian JQ, who never cared much about mathematical consistency in this series anyway (just look at the character-heights, yeesh), never showed us any feats that can be conclusively proven as being above High 6-A. So that is the Hell in which the verse is stuck on this particular wiki and forum.
Click to expand...
nikocado-avocado-mental-breakdown.gif
 
Theburgerking11 said:
the problem with using the clouds is that this particular version of the feat that has clouds present is inside Pearl's mind. Can we really use a flashback scene's clouds shown from inside of Pearl's dimensional storage mind?
Click to expand...
It's just a memory, even one that she showed Steven. Also, this storage mind was a separate personality that was using her phone and writing about how Pink became Rose, so there's no reason to dismiss it.
Theburgerking11 said:
If so, then I'm wiling to compromise and willing to go with this result. However, it should be noted that the Diamonds are only this strong with this particular attack, and it needed 3 fully powered Diamonds to do this attack. Nobody else scales to it and Rose blocking the light with the shield should not be given an upgrade because it did not tank the 6-B/6-A attack, only a fraction of it.
Click to expand...
I have to disagree that it scales above their normal abilities. Three fully-powered diamonds just means each of them scales to a third, and there's nothing to suggest it's exponential boost. She also threw out her strongest attack at Pink Steven.

I completely agree with the shield part.
 
It’s mind boggling to me that a feat that is proven to be AP, has been calculated, and only applies to god-tiers can’t be applied because “it’s an outlier” apparently.

It being an outlier is ridiculous when it only applies to the diamonds and Steven, and the “Then why didn’t the Diamonds destroy Earth again and use the Cluster if they have the AP” argument is also ridiculous too. Earth is in an entire different galaxy then Homeworld and the diamonds are governing/researching other planets, leading gem troops, and doing stuff on their own planet. Why would they travel through galaxies just to get to a planet and destroy it when they have a cluster to do it for them? That’s like driving several miles across a country just to step on a bug. The diamonds have the AP necessary to bust a planet, they just have other things to do other than pulling off the planetary attack of the day on specific planets from other galaxies. And yes, THE ATTACK IS AP. Peridot was confused when she first met Steven and asked him if “Stevens” had taken over the planet. Plus there’s the fact that Blue Diamond herself stated that “No one should have survived their attack” NOT JUST GEMS, NO ONE SHOULD HAVE SURVIVED THEIR ATTACK lmao. The Diamonds intention to destroy the planet is more backed up when you think about, why would they want to have corrupted gems of Rose Quartz army and their own on a planet they hate and want to die? That’s just more on their to-do list. Corruption is simply an after affect of the blast. Even if you bring in the “The attack came from a moon base” argument, it’s automatically debunked by Blue Diamonds statement that “White hasn’t left Homeworld in eons” and we all know White participated in the attack. Overall, there’s no good reason that it shouldn’t be applied to Steven and Diamonds.
 
ByAsura said:
I'm saying we shouldn't apply it.
Click to expand...
Sorry I’m just stupid lol. I should have payed more attention to everything said, and with 2 threads to the same series, it’s kind of hard to keep track of everything said tbf.

Anyway I would also argue it’s Pearls flashback is just screwing around when it comes to clouds and didn’t it seem like the diamonds intention was to take out the Earth? Based on Blue Diamonds statements “I can’t believe you’re alive” “No one should have survived our attack” and the fact that, they wanted to completely wipe out all Roses Army and there’s as well, and the fact that they hate Earth and wanted it to die based on Yellow Diamonds statements talking to Peridot, doesn’t it seem like it’s a 4-B attack? Plus, if Rose Quartz only covered a fraction of the blast and if we take in the country level-continental level calculation of the blast, wouldn’t we see the damage or even a mention of what Rose didn’t block in the blast? If you don’t understand what I’m saying, what I’m saying in conclusion is that there’s inconsistency in the country level calc, using the clouds to base on the calc, and assuming Rose didn’t block the blast. There’s just to much inconsistency for me to believe that it’s not 4-B and that Rose didn’t block it if that makes any sense.
 
Continent level is more than enough to life-wipe a planet. A meteor much, much less powerful than that almost succeeded in life-wiping the Earth.

No, it doesn't seem like a 4-B attack. It seems like they launched a beam at Earth from Homeworld, and it created an omnidirectional explosion. Nothing that happens in the series is consistent with an omnidirectional blast coming from Homeworld, especially because we actually see it as a mono-directional beam in one episode. For reference, we wouldn't see a multi-galaxy sized explosion cover the Earth's view of the sky when it reaches the moon, we'd see it do that from light-years away.

The clouds were parted before the explosion made contact with the shield.

Plus, while I do think the blast was destructive (even though we see no damage to the environment), the life-wiping aspect could just be hax.
 
4-B amount of energy was released right around Earth's surface and then enveloped it, but Earth was intact without a scratch.

It's pretty stupid practice to calc such luminosity feats to that level when they are very clearly just flashy animation nowhere near as strong as what they are calced as. I heavily disagree with it.
 
Goodyfresh and ByAsura make good sense to me. Thank you for helping out.

Is there anything left to do here?
 
AKM sama said:
4-B amount of energy was released right around Earth's surface and then enveloped it, but Earth was intact without a scratch.

It's pretty stupid practice to calc such luminosity feats to that level when they are very clearly just flashy animation nowhere near as strong as what they are calced as. I heavily disagree with it.
Click to expand...
All your arguments are a load of crap, sorry but it's the truth.
 
Goodyfresh said:
Essentially, Steven reacting to an MFTL+ attack is so, so far removed from all other combat-speed feats in the franchise/verse that it pretty much precisely fits the definition of "outlier" if that really was what happened. What's actually more likely is that White's mind-beams might not have the same speed as the Corrupting Light; although to be fair they were able to speed-blitz Blue and Yellow, so who knows? But regardless, anyone having MFTL+ reactions or combat-speed in the verse is a massive outlier if it only happened this one single time.
Click to expand...
Steven is the God Tier of the verse tho...
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Bro, are you looking for a report? Where is this hostility coming from all of a sudden, just prove your stance.
Click to expand...
You guessed correctly. He once provoked the staff members to get himself kicked/banned, now as you can see he's doing the same thing with you (to get himself kicked or banned).
 
I’m starting to think that 4-B diamonds is kinda weird. Nothing was destroyed during the blast. Instead, it corrupted every unprotected gem on earth.
 
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