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Steven Universe - The Biggest CRT (and also my last one)

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Goodyfresh said:
Hold up, did you guys finally find proper reasoning to upgrade SU to Tier 5 while I was away? 👀
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Yes low 5-B
Maverick_Zero_X said:
I did. I’m not seeing anything saying “the Corrupting Light was meant to blow up the Earth”, just obliterate every Gem on its surface.
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If it was just light to transmute gems it literally wouldn't have parted the clouds on a global scale nor would homeworld have no knowledge on anything about the planet hell when peridot first monitored Earth she assumed stevens were a new race that took over the planet as clearly homeworld thought everything annihilated
 
Dalesean027 said:
If it was just light to transmute gems it literally wouldn't have parted the clouds on a global scale nor would homeworld have no knowledge on anything about the planet hell when peridot first monitored Earth she assumed stevens were a new race that took over the planet as clearly homeworld thought everything annihilated
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I’m not saying it was Transmutation light, I’m saying there’s nothing stating it had the power to destroy the Earth itself, meaning the Low 5-B rating is unjustified.
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
I’m not saying it was Transmutation light, I’m saying there’s nothing saying it had the power to destroy the Earth itself, meaning the Low 5-B rating is unjustified.
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Blue herself literally states that "no one should have survived our attack" clearly showing that it was intended to destroy their Target
 
Dalesean027 said:
Blue herself literally states that "no one should have survived our attack" clearly showing that it was intended to destroy their Target
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Yes, kill everyone on Earth, not destroy the totality of Earth itself. It’s literally in the quote you cited.

"How did you even survive? We blasted the planet and obliterated every Gem on its surface."
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
Yes, kill everyone on Earth, not destroy the totality of Earth itself. It’s literally in the quote you cited.

"How did you even survive? We blasted the planet and obliterated every Gem on its surface."
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I mean garnet also literally says that "the diamonds launched a direct attack at The Earth not even mentioning the gems but the planet itself
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
That doesn’t prove it was meant to blow up the planet.
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Considering we know that it was intended on nothing surviving it, it being thought humans were wiped out, and that the attack was launched with earth being the target I'd say so. Also also saying wiping out all gems on the surface of the earth in this context is also literally just saying any gem on Earth will be destroyed
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
That doesn’t prove it was meant to blow up the planet.
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Okay, you see I actually agree with this... I'm all for the god-tiers of this verse finally getting a Tier 5 upgrade, but the reasoning needs to be sound.

The idea that the Diamonds intended the Corrupting Light to blow up the entire planet is demonstrably false; they expected the planet to still be there millennia later with the Cluster inside. They sent Gems like Peridot to check on the planet's status with the expectation that it would still exist.

@Antvasima I'm sorry for pinging you directly like this, but I need you to listen to me as someone who is a huge fan of this series and whose arguments all got accepted in the CRT's when SU Future ended. People are spinning things incorrectly here and giving you false information; I'm as desperate as the rest of them for a proper Tier 5 upgrade for SU, but at the end of the day, the evidence being presented just doesn't live up to the standards of this forum and wiki.

I come back to check on things here after such a long time and see that THIS is what the SU Fandom is now resorting to on VsB to try to finally get our Tier 5 upgrade and just... ugh. Come on guys, we're better than this. Properly watch the show. The Diamonds were not trying to literally blow up the Earth. When they went to check on the Cluster's status millennia later, they weren't surprised that the planet still existed; they were merely surprised that the life on its surface survived, let alone the Gems that were the attack's target. That video where Blue says "we blasted the planet" does NOT, by any means, prove that they were trying to planet-bust. In fact, she specifically mentions in that exact same line that they were aiming to obliterate the life-forms on the planet's surface, with no mention of trying to blow up the planet. I just re-watched the episode, and all of Yellow's statements also corroborate this.

Edit: Just FYI Antvasima, I do agree, though, with the reasoning for the attack coming from Homeworld, and thus the galactic range and MFTL+ attack-speed upgrades make a lot of sense. But if the calc that yields a 4-B result can't be accepted (and it's very easy to see why, as the calc has many issues), then unfortunately, we can't just then randomly say "Well they're still at least planet-busting because super-vague statements," because all that those vague statements imply is, at most, the intention to wipe out life on the surface, and other evidence shows that the Diamonds in fact expected the planet to still be around. As far as I can tell as someone with an unhealthy level of obsession with SU to the point of having re-watched it several times, there is still no evidence that lives up to VsBattles' rigorous standards for anything in the franchise being Tier 5. But the range and speed upgrades should stay.
 
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Dalesean027 said:
Considering we know that it was intended on nothing surviving it, it being thought humans were wiped out, and that the attack was launched with earth being the target I'd say so. Also also saying wiping out all gems on the surface of the earth in this context is also literally just saying any gem on Earth will be destroyed
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None of that is enough for complete planet destruction. All that proves is that they intended to wipe out all life on the planet.
 
I'm also done arguing this they proposed this and brought this arguement in the previous thread, none of the people who really argued it even participated in this thread so if it's rejected that's fine. I basically just copied and pasted the arguements from before that they used so I've got nothing left.
 
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Goodyfresh said:
Edit: Just FYI Antvasima, I do agree, though, with the reasoning for the attack coming from Homeworld, and thus the galactic range and MFTL+ attack-speed upgrades make a lot of sense. But if the calc that yields a 4-B result can't be accepted (and it's very easy to see why, as the calc has many issues), then unfortunately, we can't just then randomly say "Well they're still at least planet-busting because super-vague statements," because all that those vague statements imply is, at most, the intention to wipe out life on the surface, and other evidence shows that the Diamonds in fact expected the planet to still be around. As far as I can tell as someone with an unhealthy level of obsession with SU to the point of having re-watched it several times, there is still no evidence that lives up to VsBattles' rigorous standards for anything in the franchise being Tier 5. But the range and speed upgrades should stay.
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Ok, this makes sense (although i still think the 4-B calc should be valid, but whatever)
 
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Vizer04 said:
Ok, this makes sense (although i still think the 4-B calc should be valid, but wwhatever)
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Unfortunately, if that calc is considered invalid then there's nothing by this wiki's standards to support Tier 5 or higher. Things have to be reverted to "At Least High 6-A, likely higher" for Blue, Yellow, and Pink State Steven, and "At Least High 6-A, Likely Far Higher" for White, Pink Steven's shields, and Monster Steven. If I am remembering correctly about what it all was before, that is. I think it may be best to just revert the profiles to before the newest edits, and then just add the range and speed upgrades for Blue, Yellow, and White. I know that this is a shame; yes, we all know that the verse is clearly at least Tier 5, Lapis' planetary-surface-level feat was really, really, really casual and done while weakened and dying. But this wiki/forum has very, very rigorous and strict standards of proof.

As for the 4-B Calc: I'm basically a religious (lol) fan of the series, and have to say that the idea of the Diamonds being solar-system tier sounds extremely far-fetched to me, to say the least. I really don't think that the light-beam was "one piece from end to end" or however you want to put it; and yes I know the Diamonds are god-tier, but nothing else in the series even comes close to that level, and we also have to remember that Lapis scales to the Diamonds from multiple feats and the idea of her being solar-system tier is insane, haha. As for Lapis: Some statement from the writers on Twitter about the Diamonds being far above all other Gems does not hold as much weight as actual demonstrable feats from the show. Lapis clearly does scale to the Diamonds, and this makes sense when you consider she's probably an "Ultimate Lapis" like how Jasper is an "Ultimate Quartz." But yeah, the idea of solar-system tier sounds bonkers to me, haha.

It's been so long since I was last active here, so I'm trying to remember; do we have to wait for Ant to give the go-ahead before we revert changes and add the range and speed upgrades, or can we do so as we please since the person who started the CRT agrees that with the calc invalid, the AP and Dura upgrades don't make sense? I can make the changes myself if necessary. It's just Steven's, Blue's, Yellow's, and White's profiles, right? But yeah, maybe we should wait for Ant.
 
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I actually watched/read Steven Universe/Future, the film, the comics and guides, a few months back (I was planning to make a CRT before my planning doc was wiped). I’ll comment here sometime tomorrow.

For now, I disagree with the calculation. Even if the blast extends over differently over different angles, that really just means it’s so whacky that we should disregard this calculation for inconsistency.
 
Goodyfresh said:
I know that this is a shame; yes, we all know that the verse is clearly at least Tier 5, Lapis' planetary-surface-level feat was really, really, really casual and done while weakened and dying. But this wiki/forum has very, very rigorous and strict standards of proof.
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I mean I don’t think it’s just cause of the wiki’s standards that she’s not Tier 5 normally. Her Ocean lifting feat was only calced at 35 petatons. The distance between that and Moon Level is a 845x difference, that’s way too big of a gap to assume she’s Tier 5 just not from being weakened.
 
Goodyfresh made sense to me above. I suppose that the diamonds should have their statistics updated in the manner that he described. Their fights should probably be restored as well, both for them and for their opponents.
 
Antvasima said:
Goodyfresh made sense to me above. I suppose that the diamonds should have their statistics updated in the manner that he described. Their fights should probably be restored as well, both for them and for their opponents.
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Hmmmm, how do we do that? I am way out of practice with the mechanics of editing things on here, sorry. Also Blue's, Yellow's, White's, and Steven's pages are locked from editing, at least for me.
 
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I was going to comment on White Diamond actually being on Homeworld or not and the true nature of the blast (eg. was it biological hax), but I don't have the effort and it really doesn't matter too much for what I'm about to say.

The problem with the feat is the portrayal is kind of inconsistent. If we look at A Single Pale Rose, the blast is parts clouds (although the actual damage caused is unknown because they're in the middle of a severely damaged battlefield) from a spot behind the moon.
  • We're the only ones left... Homeworld... They were all leaving... We thought we'd won.... There was a bright light and everyone was- ...Why did I do it?
This scene, however, shows intact clouds almost until the moment where Earth is completely enveloped (we don't even see any clouds parting, is what I'm getting at), and the explosion emanates from somewhere between the Earth and moon.

In any case, assuming the actual explosion was formed on the Homeworld is kind of ludicrous. We wouldn't see something like this (note the moon's shadow), we would see an explosion so massive that all of space on that side of Earth is utterly covered from light-years away rather than 384,000 km. Plus, wouldn't that also kill every Gem on Homeworld? Adding to all of that, an attack on this level would probably deal some serious damage to the moon if it's capable of life-wiping a planet via sheer destruction, let alone Homeworld.

The more reasonable assumption is that they fired the blast from Homeworld, it hit Earth like a beam and exploded in space (whether that's between Earth and the Moon, or somewhere beyond).

Now, assuming the blast was launched at twice the moon's distance, each of those clouds were 500 tonnes (there were two clouds), collectively covered an area of 1 square km and parted at 1 km/s, we get Continent level for the calculation and Large Country level for each Gem.
 
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Goodyfresh said:
Hmmmm, how do we do that? I am way out of practice with the mechanics of editing things on here, sorry. Also Blue's, Yellow's, White's, and Steven's pages are locked from editing, at least for me.
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If somebody writes the EXACTLY WORDED page titles for all of them, I will unlock them for you.
 
Never mind. The pages are not locked.

Do you have an autoconfirmed account in Fandom? Meaning have you confirmed your email address there?
 
ByAsura said:
\km and parted at 1 km/s, we get Continent level for the calculation and Large Country level for each Gem.
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the problem with using the clouds is that this particular version of the feat that has clouds present is inside Pearl's mind. Can we really use a flashback scene's clouds shown from inside of Pearl's dimensional storage mind?

If so, then I'm wiling to compromise and willing to go with this result. However, it should be noted that the Diamonds are only this strong with this particular attack, and it needed 3 fully powered Diamonds to do this attack. Nobody else scales to it and Rose blocking the light with the shield should not be given an upgrade because it did not tank the 6-B/6-A attack, only a fraction of it.

Honestly I still think this feat is hax and not AP at all, but again, I'm willing to compromise.

This is also proves that Lapis's high 6-A feat should not scaled to anybody considering 3 Diamond's ultimate attack that was meant to annilhlate all gems on Earth is weaker than the Lapis feat.
 
Antvasima said:
Never mind. The pages are not locked.

Do you have an autoconfirmed account in Fandom? Meaning have you confirmed your email address there?
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That's bizarre, I was POSITIVE that I confirmed my email there. Hold on.

Ah okay, figured it out.

Gonna revert the AP and Dura sections for Steven and the Diamonds to what they used to be right now.
 
It's done. I noticed that someone also changed Rose/Pink's stats, so I reverted those as well. As agreed upon, I kept the upgrades for range and attack-speed intact for Blue, Yellow, and White.
 
My biggest problem with the whole "the Diamonds need the Cluster to destroy planets so they couldn't be higher than Planet level" argument is that it's never explained why the Diamonds created the Cluster in the first place.

I don't know, maybe... TO NOT HAVE TO ******* TRAVEL TO ANY PLANET AND DESTROY IT THEMSELVES

Why do that? Why do that when you can create a weapon that does the work for you? send it to whenever you want instead of going yourself
 
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Vizer04 said:
The 4-B calc should stay, the Diamonds didn't destroy Earth because they didn't have the ranged attacks to do so (AP attacks, not hax)
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... what? It hit the earth, rose just blocked the part she was on. Even if it didn't the hit directly the sheer energy of the attack would displace the planet.
 
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