stat equal fusion tournament: Charbia vs Chuck

[speedster352]

fire resistance negation bro. are you attempting to grasp straws?



Yep, definitely using strawman tactics.

Weaknesses: Vulnerable to counterattacks during energy expulsion | Has a limit to the amount of energy he can absorb before he overloads

Sooo.... things that Charon and Puck's ability absorbs, negs and resists.

No that's a NLF they resist absorption and their is a limit they will explode themselves since Charizard can just spam power attacks all he wants also passive powernull with dynamax. Her spells cannot be absorbed. Read the scans

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Here they also have resistance negation for FB as well read the profile

FB is absolute zero so I get why it cant be absorbed by someone who absorbs fire. Fortunately for Chuck, he absorbs energy from attacks and not just fire.

FB IS AZ

AZ negs resistance to ice because it is the ULTIMATE FORM OF ICE MANIPULATION. You need absolute immunity to ice manipulation

 

[speedster352]

Sooo.... things that Charon and Puck's ability absorbs, negs and resists.

• Word of Power: A simple spell with which Rubia applies strong magic on her words, allowing her to control the thoughts and actions of the target over time, akin to a puppet. It can also manipulate the memories of the target. Not even characters with strong willpower, like Claire Rouge can resist it for long[1]
• Brand of Darkness: A spell that allows Rubia to do two things: 1) to seal away spirits, monsters, familiars, summons, and the like, making them unable to be used or summoned again, unless dispelled; 2) to cause intense pain, and force someone's inner power to become uncontrollable and berserk. In either case, physical contact is required
• Eternal Blood of the Phoenix: The one and only fire healing spell that also resupplies mana and stamina[3]
• Mirages: Rubia can create illusions/mirages of herself by manipulating temperature. From an outsider, it looks like teleportation
• Flames of Elstein: Passive magic that stabilizes her magic, makes her more durable, and her fire attacks get stronger
• This cannot be absorbed

FB is absolute zero so I get why it cant be absorbed by someone who absorbs fire. Fortunately for Chuck, he absorbs energy from attacks and not just fire.

FB IS AZ

AZ negs resistance to ice because it is the ULTIMATE FORM OF ICE MANIPULATION. You need absolute immunity to ice manipulation

No he does not their is a limit or he will explode also resistance negation and they have other haxes like word power and brand of darkness

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Weaknesses: Vulnerable to counterattacks during energy expulsion | Has a limit to the amount of energy he can absorb before he overloads

No that's a NLF they resist absorption and their is a limit they will explode themselves since Charizard can just spam power attacks all he wants also passive powernull with dynamax. Her spells cannot be absorbed. Read the scans

Charon's limit is more than 4.6 trillion times his town-level durability. At stats equalized you will need to be 4.6 trillion times stronger to force Charon to almost reach his limit.

Charizard or Chariba or whoever will NEVER reach a net energy of 4.6 trillion times greater than Charon's equalized durability before running out of stamina+ Chuck can passively absorb mana from the surroundings, not sure how spamming will be a good idea when fused to a magic-user. + Chuck isn't just going to stand there.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

This is starting to give me a headache.
So, while Frost Blaze does have AZ properties and it freezes what it touches, it's still technically a fire spell, and the series treats it as such. They never say "look at this ice spell", they say "look at this fire spell that bends all pre-conceived notions we have about fire spells". Furthermore, FB bypasses both ice and fire resistance. Meanwhile, EoV overpowers FB, aka AZ, which no other conventional spell has shown to do. So the EoV spell basically resists and counters AZ.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Can you please provide where the 4.67 trillion thing comes from?

 

[GoldenScorpions]

FB is absolute zero so I get why it cant be absorbed by someone who absorbs fire.

Claire Rouge's spirit is actually a character who can absorb fire and it was able to absorb Frost Blaze, exactly because FB is always treated as a fire spell, not an ice spell

 

[GoldenScorpions]

i don't think this proves it resists absorption. Did you accidentally link a wrong scan?

No, it's the correct scan. Blaze Slash is a move that absorbs fire and uses it to strike the attacker, and Kamito tried to use it on Frost Blaze. The reason he technically could was because FB is a fire spell, not an ice spell. But in the end the absorption didn't go through because of FB's unique properties. So FB cannot be absorbed.

I went to look at the Fire Force profiles on the site. None of their flames are anything remotely close to the properties of FB and EoV, both of which bypass resistances, durability and pre-conceived notions about fire attacks. I'm sorry, but without solid backup and proof, we cannot assume Charon's absorption would work on Rubia's flames just because they work against Fire Force's flames, since they are quite different in nature and effect.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

This is starting to give me a headache.
So, while Frost Blaze does have AZ properties and it freezes what it touches, it's still technically a fire spell, and the series treats it as such. They never say "look at this ice spell", they say "look at this fire spell that bends all pre-conceived notions we have about fire spells". Furthermore, FB bypasses both ice and fire resistance. Meanwhile, EoV overpowers FB, aka AZ, which no other conventional spell has shown to do. So the EoV spell basically resists and counters AZ.

It's a fire spell that freezes at AZ temperatures...

correct?

AZ cant affect Chuck.

gets absorbed by Charon's abilities.

AZ resistance > ice resistance

Fire resistance negation is meaningless if it gets absorbed anyway. Heat resistance will deal with the heat during absorption. Does EoV have heat resistance negation? or its just fire resistance negation...

Can you please provide where the 4.67 trillion thing comes from?

I said it already.

his highest feat with the absorption of 240 petatons of energy (when he absorbed Nataku's multi-continental attack), divided by his base durability which scales to 51.5 kilotons.

Claire Rouge's spirit is actually a character who can absorb fire and it was able to absorb Frost Blaze, exactly because FB is always treated as a fire spell, not an ice spell

No problem. Charon's abilities should work then

By the way... AZ isn't a state of matter. It's not inherently ice manipulation. it's just the absolute lowest temperature that freezes on a molecular level. when enthalpy is literally zero. Az resistance automatically resists the coolest temperatures. resistance to ice manipulation means you resist the cold too. AZ can also be obtained from absorbing the heat itself. or other supernatural ways like Puck freezing by absorbing mana.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

No, it's the correct scan. Blaze Slash is a move that absorbs fire and uses it to strike the attacker, and Kamito tried to use it on Frost Blaze. The reason he technically could was because FB is a fire spell, not an ice spell. But in the end the absorption didn't go through because of FB's unique properties. So FB cannot be absorbed.

Ohhh okay.

I went to look at the Fire Force profiles on the site. None of their flames are anything remotely close to the properties of FB and EoV, both of which bypass resistances, durability and pre-conceived notions about fire attacks. I'm sorry, but without solid backup and proof, we cannot assume Charon's absorption would work on Rubia's flames just because they work against Fire Force's flames, since they are quite different in nature and effect.

You haven't seen my message above yet. AZ isn't a state of matter so it inherently isnt ice manipulation, it's more akin to temperature manipulation.

FB is AZ from fire, not ice, I'm aware.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Sooo.... things that Charon and Puck's ability absorbs, negs and resists.

Fire spells that aren't EoV and FB can get absorbed, sure, though refer to my previous points concerning EoV and FB not being absorbable conventionally. Charon resists Heat, not Fire; and Puck has no resistances on his profile. I expect him to resist ice and likely AZ, but his profile mentions nothing about what else he could resist. Also, there's nothing on either profile about negation, and negation =/= absorption, even less when Charon's profile says he has an upper limit.
After reading the scan of Shamak, the effects of Shamak and Word of Power are quite similar actually. Rubia can resist WoP, so it's perfectly viable she resists Shamak.
Puck has status effect inducement and debuff, but Rubia has Purification of all types.

A flaw of Chuck I see is that, if he absorbs, he can't really do anything else, and he's vulnerable if he unleashes the energy. He cannot endlessly absorb either, or he'll reach the limit. Even if he releases the energy, Charbia resists fire.

gets absorbed by Charon's abilities.

without solid backup and proof, we cannot assume Charon's absorption would work on Rubia's flames just because they work against Fire Force's flames, since they are quite different in nature and effect.

We cannot assume that, specifically for EoV and FB, due to how different those 2 spells work. And even if FB's AZ is resisted, EoV beats AZ.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

his highest feat with the absorption of 240 petatons of energy (when he absorbed Nataku's multi-continental attack), divided by his base durability which scales to 51.5 kilotons

I'd like a calc or thread talking about that, if you don't mind

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Different question... In the end, which version of Charizard is being used here?


(I'm off to sleep. I'll see responses when I wake up)

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I'm sorry, but without solid backup and proof, we cannot assume Charon's absorption would work on Rubia's flames just because they work against Fire Force's flames, since they are quite different in nature and effect.

Charon works by absorbing the Kinetic energy of the AZ flames, the heat of a flame is simply the kinetic energy of the molecules, This is why it seems like he's absorbing fire when he is just stopping the fire from existing.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I'd like a calc or thread talking about that, if you don't mind

you want a thread?

I gave you the formula just use a calculator. Or tell me if you disagree with the logic. why do you need a thread?

Different question... In the end, which version of Charizard is being used here?

lol speed got spin to force yet another character change to dynamax.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Puck has no resistances on his profile

needs revision tbh. the man literally causes AZ storms by existing and saves Emilia in a AZ freezing environment caused by her

 

[Arnoldstone18]

A flaw of Chuck I see is that, if he absorbs, he can't really do anything else, and he's vulnerable if he unleashes the energy. He cannot endlessly absorb either, or he'll reach the limit. Even if he releases the energy, Charbia resists fire.

Do the Sheilds tho?

Weaknesses​

• Destroying their non-move shield through any means will harm them

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I'd like a calc or thread talking about that, if you don't mind

look at charon ap for his highest feat with absorption.

 

[theultimate5105]

Do the Sheilds tho?

Weaknesses​

• Destroying their non-move shield through any means will harm them

Yes. They have Charizards resistences

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Yes. They have Charizards resistences

Chuck literally just blows up the shield to deal heavy damage to them

 

[Jibz]

He doesn’t resist he nullifies it

Scaling chains have never and will never be listed on the profiles. At best they will be listed in Blogs
And simple certain Passive Abilities null others, yet are not nulled Themselves. Certain moves nullify them and other moves nullify those moves. Those are the moves listed to not be nulled

Then simply put. I'd like to see evidence of a chain. Your description was vague and inept. So i want evidence before i blindly believe you.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Ngl I nearly gave up because of the repeated rule changes. Thanks to me being extra critical ive been able to get past Rubia's two durability attacks and I am able to exploit Dynamax's weakness again.

IN SUMMARY

So winscons:
Destruction of Charbia's shield deals heavy damage to their Dynamax form. Charon can destroy the shield by causing massive explosions on it. He will get the energy needed for that by absorbing the kinetic energy from most if not all of Charbia's attacks including his two durability negation attacks EoV (Absorbs the kinetic energy from the flames to effectively put them out) and FB (Chuck is resistant to AZ attacks, unaffected by his own storm and went into Emilia's AZ zone to unfreeze her despite the freeze still being active).

Now, Chuck's counter to Charbia's winscons:

First, we have to understand how high Charon's absorption limit actually is.

Normally, his durability is scaled to Town level, if you check the fire force page the town level calcs are 51.5 kilotons. Now Charon's absorption abilities drastically improve his durability. Thanks to this Charon was able to tank 240 Petatons of Tnt which is around the Multi-Continental range. This Tournament rules state that stats are equalized. Amped stats are not equalized, right? Therefore Charon's Town level of durability will be equalized. So how do we find the new absorption limit? Divide the Multicontinental feat (240 Petatons) with the town level feat (51.5 kilotons) to find how many times stronger Charon can amp himself at an All-stats equalized battle. Charon's absorption amp is 4.67 trillion times stronger than his equalized town-level AP and Durability.

1. Charbia's stat amp and reduction are insignificant.

If Charbia reduces Chuck's stats, it is meaningless as Chuck will just continuously absorb their attacks to make themselves stronger with Charon's ability. If Charbia amps its stat, their attacks still won't be able to overcome Charon's absorption limit which is >4.67 trillion times his base equalized durability. Chuck's AP is also massively increased by this same amount due to his absorption limit. Charizard's stat reduction and stat amps are unquantifiable. It is less likely these unquantifiable stat reductions to notably affect stats of massive proportions. Changes will be insignificant.

2. Charbia's Frost Blaze and End of Vermillion are useless.

Charon absorbs the kinetic energy of any attack as stated on his profile. We, or some of us, know that a flame is simply visible gaseous molecules filled with kinetic energy. He will be able to absorb the Kinetic energy of End of Vermillion. The End of Vermillion was capable of making a way through a barrier that absorbs magic. The flames of vermillion were strong enough to destroy the barrier, however, this does not mean it has any level immune to absorption, it just means that it is just that powerful to destroy the barrier. There is nothing durability negating about the End of Vermillion (at least not on the profile; just claims without scans whatsoever.) These flames are just very powerful flames. As for Frost blaze, It is a flame that freezes at Absolute Zero temperatures, Chuck is resistant to Absolute Zero temperatures, and Charon simply absorbs the KE of those flames as well.

Prove the EoV flames negate durability, if they are just really powerful flames, explain how they are strong enough to bypass absorption that is 4.67 trillion times higher than Rubia's AP (because Rubia AP/DURA = Charon AP/DURA under SBA).


@Kflare63 @Jibz or anyone, any questions?

@GoldenScorpions why are you editing the pages during the debate... You made the edit to Rubia's about 6/7 times today during the debate. @Spinoirr this allowed?

 

[Spinoirr]

Don't think so

 

[Jibz]

@GoldenScorpions why are you editing the pages during the debate...

what were the edits? If they were made without a crt, that's pretty bad..

 

[Jibz]

@Kflare63 @Jibz or anyone, any questions?

will look into this later (busy atm) but at a glance it looks fine. I'll have to give my indepth comments sometime later today.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

what were the edits? If they were made without a crt, that's pretty bad..

Just adding scans of different things and deleting some. Still checking

 

[Arnoldstone18]

what were the edits? If they were made without a crt, that's pretty bad..

Some of the stuff was used to debate here, but I guess he deleted them later.

changed the wording to be more ambiguous
EoV used to be “the flames were strong enough to resist absorption”.. now it’s “the flames resist absorption”. Stuff like that.

Edit: scans being deleted contained evidence I could use to debunk EoV Dura beg claim, but I don’t think he did it intentionally. At least I can reclaim them.

 

[theultimate5105]

Then simply put. I'd like to see evidence of a chain. Your description was vague and inept. So i want evidence before i blindly believe you.

No it was simply clear cut as hell, I listed Powernulling moves resisting eachother and powernulling eachother. Give me a single profile with its scaling chain listed (just one would be fine).

Chuck literally just blows up the shield to deal heavy damage to them

And how would he do that. You do realise the shield needs 8 different attacks to be broken at the very minimum (Dura Neg attacks need 4-8 moves as well, with certain ones outright doing nothing against it). and the heavy damage is literally still far less then what they would normally take. Its not a weakness, hell its less then what they take from a single attack from a equal
Also Max Guard is a thing which would block any of his attacks

 

[speedster352]

Ngl I nearly gave up because of the repeated rule changes. Thanks to me being extra critical ive been able to get past Rubia's two durability attacks and I am able to exploit Dynamax's weakness again.

IN SUMMARY

So winscons:
Destruction of Charbia's shield deals heavy damage to their Dynamax form. Charon can destroy the shield by causing massive explosions on it. He will get the energy needed for that by absorbing the kinetic energy from most if not all of Charbia's attacks including his two durability negation attacks EoV (Absorbs the kinetic energy from the flames to effectively put them out) and FB (Chuck is resistant to AZ attacks, unaffected by his own storm and went into Emilia's AZ zone to unfreeze her despite the freeze still being active).

Now, Chuck's counter to Charbia's winscons:

First, we have to understand how high Charon's absorption limit actually is.

Normally, his durability is scaled to Town level, if you check the fire force page the town level calcs are 51.5 kilotons. Now Charon's absorption abilities drastically improve his durability. Thanks to this Charon was able to tank 240 Petatons of Tnt which is around the Multi-Continental range. This Tournament rules state that stats are equalized. Amped stats are not equalized, right? Therefore Charon's Town level of durability will be equalized. So how do we find the new absorption limit? Divide the Multicontinental feat (240 Petatons) with the town level feat (51.5 kilotons) to find how many times stronger Charon can amp himself at an All-stats equalized battle. Charon's absorption amp is 4.67 trillion times stronger than his equalized town-level AP and Durability.

1. Charbia's stat amp and reduction are insignificant.

If Charbia reduces Chuck's stats, it is meaningless as Chuck will just continuously absorb their attacks to make themselves stronger with Charon's ability. If Charbia amps its stat, their attacks still won't be able to overcome Charon's absorption limit which is >4.67 trillion times his base equalized durability. Chuck's AP is also massively increased by this same amount due to his absorption limit. Charizard's stat reduction and stat amps are unquantifiable. It is less likely these unquantifiable stat reductions to notably affect stats of massive proportions. Changes will be insignificant.

2. Charbia's Frost Blaze and End of Vermillion are useless.

Charon absorbs the kinetic energy of any attack as stated on his profile. We, or some of us, know that a flame is simply visible gaseous molecules filled with kinetic energy. He will be able to absorb the Kinetic energy of End of Vermillion. The End of Vermillion was capable of making a way through a barrier that absorbs magic. The flames of vermillion were strong enough to destroy the barrier, however, this does not mean it has any level immune to absorption, it just means that it is just that powerful to destroy the barrier. There is nothing durability negating about the End of Vermillion (at least not on the profile; just claims without scans whatsoever.) These flames are just very powerful flames. As for Frost blaze, It is a flame that freezes at Absolute Zero temperatures, Chuck is resistant to Absolute Zero temperatures, and Charon simply absorbs the KE of those flames as well.

Prove the EoV flames negate durability, if they are just really powerful flames, explain how they are strong enough to bypass absorption that is 4.67 trillion times higher than Rubia's AP (because Rubia AP/DURA = Charon AP/DURA under SBA).


@Kflare63 @Jibz or anyone, any questions?

@GoldenScorpions why are you editing the pages during the debate... You made the edit to Rubia's about 6/7 times today during the debate. @Spinoirr this allowed?

Stats are equalized so no trillion absorptions also EOV and FB negate durabity on the profiles. They have the brand of darkness and wop to hax chuck to death which are their new win cons What do you think?

Don't think so

Please restrict the trillion absorption thing.

 

[speedster352]

Ngl I nearly gave up because of the repeated rule changes. Thanks to me being extra critical ive been able to get past Rubia's two durability attacks and I am able to exploit Dynamax's weakness again.

IN SUMMARY

So winscons:
Destruction of Charbia's shield deals heavy damage to their Dynamax form. Charon can destroy the shield by causing massive explosions on it. He will get the energy needed for that by absorbing the kinetic energy from most if not all of Charbia's attacks including his two durability negation attacks EoV (Absorbs the kinetic energy from the flames to effectively put them out) and FB (Chuck is resistant to AZ attacks, unaffected by his own storm and went into Emilia's AZ zone to unfreeze her despite the freeze still being active).

Now, Chuck's counter to Charbia's winscons:

First, we have to understand how high Charon's absorption limit actually is.

Normally, his durability is scaled to Town level, if you check the fire force page the town level calcs are 51.5 kilotons. Now Charon's absorption abilities drastically improve his durability. Thanks to this Charon was able to tank 240 Petatons of Tnt which is around the Multi-Continental range. This Tournament rules state that stats are equalized. Amped stats are not equalized, right? Therefore Charon's Town level of durability will be equalized. So how do we find the new absorption limit? Divide the Multicontinental feat (240 Petatons) with the town level feat (51.5 kilotons) to find how many times stronger Charon can amp himself at an All-stats equalized battle. Charon's absorption amp is 4.67 trillion times stronger than his equalized town-level AP and Durability.

1. Charbia's stat amp and reduction are insignificant.

If Charbia reduces Chuck's stats, it is meaningless as Chuck will just continuously absorb their attacks to make themselves stronger with Charon's ability. If Charbia amps its stat, their attacks still won't be able to overcome Charon's absorption limit which is >4.67 trillion times his base equalized durability. Chuck's AP is also massively increased by this same amount due to his absorption limit. Charizard's stat reduction and stat amps are unquantifiable. It is less likely these unquantifiable stat reductions to notably affect stats of massive proportions. Changes will be insignificant.

2. Charbia's Frost Blaze and End of Vermillion are useless.

Charon absorbs the kinetic energy of any attack as stated on his profile. We, or some of us, know that a flame is simply visible gaseous molecules filled with kinetic energy. He will be able to absorb the Kinetic energy of End of Vermillion. The End of Vermillion was capable of making a way through a barrier that absorbs magic. The flames of vermillion were strong enough to destroy the barrier, however, this does not mean it has any level immune to absorption, it just means that it is just that powerful to destroy the barrier. There is nothing durability negating about the End of Vermillion (at least not on the profile; just claims without scans whatsoever.) These flames are just very powerful flames. As for Frost blaze, It is a flame that freezes at Absolute Zero temperatures, Chuck is resistant to Absolute Zero temperatures, and Charon simply absorbs the KE of those flames as well.

Prove the EoV flames negate durability, if they are just really powerful flames, explain how they are strong enough to bypass absorption that is 4.67 trillion times higher than Rubia's AP (because Rubia AP/DURA = Charon AP/DURA under SBA).


@Kflare63 @Jibz or anyone, any questions?

@GoldenScorpions why are you editing the pages during the debate... You made the edit to Rubia's about 6/7 times today during the debate. @Spinoirr this allowed?

Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Fire Manipulation, Proficient Swordswoman, Spirit Contract, Energy Manipulation, Spirit Manipulation, Extremely sharp senses and Extrasensory Perception reaching borderline Precognition (As a former Elemental Queen, her senses are among the highest of the entire series, and her instinct is so sharp she can deduce and predict events), Non-Physical Interaction (Can interact and harm spirits that can turn intangible or incorporeal), Information Analysis (Can understand an opponent's skill and power level with a quick overview), Heat Manipulation, Homing Attack, Explosion Manipulation, Forcefield Creation by surrounding herself in fire, Durability Negation with Frost Blaze and End of Vermillion, Resistance Negation with high-level spells (Her stronger flames have melted a cathedral protected by fire-resisting spells, and Frost Blaze bypasses both fire and ice resistance due to its nature), Slight Air Manipulation (Can absorb oxygen with her flames and turn wind into a fire vortex), Instinctive Reaction (Better than Kamito's; she can react to attacks from blind-spot or who are camouflaged, and to assassins that specialize in stealth), Statistics Amplification by infusing her body parts with Divine Power, Can infuse her whole body with Divine Power, Freezing with Frost Blaze, Healing and Stamina Restoration with Eternal Blood of the Phoenix, Purification (Types 1, 2 and 3), Curse Manipulation and Sealing and Unsealing with Brand of Darkness, Forcefield Creation, Statistics Reduction and Stealth Mastery with Isolation Barrier, Necromancy and Resurrection (limited to spirits), Illusion Creation by manipulating temperature, Danmaku with Fire Burst, Curse Manipulation and Madness Manipulation (Type 2) as a result of Mind Manipulation with Word of Power (Can turn anyone berserk, make their powers uncontrollable, and bring forth subconscious and primal instincts), Memory Manipulation (not combat-applicable, unless used after Mind Manipulation), Aura (Intimidation and powerful enough to burn things around her), Social Influencing (Became the leader of a rebellion in another country and convinced hundreds of people to follow her with unflinching loyalty), Environmental Destruction with Muspelheim, Weapon Summoning, Telepathy with Laevateinn and minor spirits, Minor Light Manipulation, Resistance to (fire, steel, cold, earth, wind, electricity, poison, diseases, mind manipulation (as here), memory manipulation, and Fear Manipulation (Unfazed by Muir Alenstarl's presence)), Great Strategist, (Spatial Manipulation, Magma Manipulation, Fire Absorption, Fire Resistance Negation and Regeneration (High-Low to Low-Mid near-instantaneous, possibly Mid over time as the spirit was nowhere near at full power) with Laevateinn's Titan form

• Word of Power: A simple spell with which Rubia applies strong magic on her words, allowing her to control the thoughts and actions of the target over time, akin to a puppet. It can also manipulate the memories of the target. Not even characters with strong willpower, like Claire Rouge can resist it for long[1]
• Brand of Darkness: A spell that allows Rubia to do two things: 1) to seal away spirits, monsters, familiars, summons, and the like, making them unable to be used or summoned again, unless dispelled; 2) to cause intense pain, and force someone's inner power to become uncontrollable and berserk. In either case, physical contact is required[12]
• This is their new win cons

Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Flight, Fire Manipulation, Dragon and Fire type breath attacks, Dragon-based attacks, Ground-based attacks, Rock-based attacks, Metal-based attacks, Fighting-type attacks, Limited Electricity Manipulation (Thunder Punch), Can use Smokescreens, Can use Solar Beam, Can use Shadow Claw, and Weather Manipulation (Via Sunny Day, though Mega Charizard Y's is automatic with Drought), Close combat damage and proficiency is increased as Mega Charizard X, Mega Evolution, Metal Manipulation, Power increases in the sun at the cost of health with Solar Power, Resistance to Fire Manipulation, Earth Manipulation, Metal Manipulation, Plant Manipulation, Magic and Sleep Manipulation, Enhanced Senses, Healing, Non-Physical Interaction and Fear Manipulation, Limited Reactive Power Level (Blaze makes the user much more powerful when it's close to being defeated), Dynamax | Same plus Gigantamax, Superior Fire Manipulation and Explosion Manipulation via G-Max Wildfire (Continuously inflicts damage for four turns to non-Fire type creatures), Superior Air Manipulation and Statistics Amplification (allies' speed) via Max Airstream, Superior Energy Projection and Statistics Reduction (target's attack) via Max Wyrmwind, Explosion Manipulation and Statistics Reduction (opponent's speed) via Max Strike, Superior Martial Arts, Explosion Manipulation, and Statistics Amplification (allies' attack) via Max Knuckle, Superior Electricity Manipulation via Max Lightning (Changes the ground to Electric Terrain), Superior Darkness Manipulation and Statistics Reduction (target's Sp. Def) via Max Darkness, Superior Metal Manipulation and Statistics Amplification (allies' defense) via Max Steelspike, Soul Manipulation, Telekinesis, Ectoplasm Manipulation, and Statistics Reduction (target's defense) via Max Phantasm, Forcefield Creation via Max Guard

 

[speedster352]

Ngl I nearly gave up because of the repeated rule changes. Thanks to me being extra critical ive been able to get past Rubia's two durability attacks and I am able to exploit Dynamax's weakness again.

IN SUMMARY

So winscons:
Destruction of Charbia's shield deals heavy damage to their Dynamax form. Charon can destroy the shield by causing massive explosions on it. He will get the energy needed for that by absorbing the kinetic energy from most if not all of Charbia's attacks including his two durability negation attacks EoV (Absorbs the kinetic energy from the flames to effectively put them out) and FB (Chuck is resistant to AZ attacks, unaffected by his own storm and went into Emilia's AZ zone to unfreeze her despite the freeze still being active).

Now, Chuck's counter to Charbia's winscons:

First, we have to understand how high Charon's absorption limit actually is.

Normally, his durability is scaled to Town level, if you check the fire force page the town level calcs are 51.5 kilotons. Now Charon's absorption abilities drastically improve his durability. Thanks to this Charon was able to tank 240 Petatons of Tnt which is around the Multi-Continental range. This Tournament rules state that stats are equalized. Amped stats are not equalized, right? Therefore Charon's Town level of durability will be equalized. So how do we find the new absorption limit? Divide the Multicontinental feat (240 Petatons) with the town level feat (51.5 kilotons) to find how many times stronger Charon can amp himself at an All-stats equalized battle. Charon's absorption amp is 4.67 trillion times stronger than his equalized town-level AP and Durability.

1. Charbia's stat amp and reduction are insignificant.

If Charbia reduces Chuck's stats, it is meaningless as Chuck will just continuously absorb their attacks to make themselves stronger with Charon's ability. If Charbia amps its stat, their attacks still won't be able to overcome Charon's absorption limit which is >4.67 trillion times his base equalized durability. Chuck's AP is also massively increased by this same amount due to his absorption limit. Charizard's stat reduction and stat amps are unquantifiable. It is less likely these unquantifiable stat reductions to notably affect stats of massive proportions. Changes will be insignificant.

2. Charbia's Frost Blaze and End of Vermillion are useless.

Charon absorbs the kinetic energy of any attack as stated on his profile. We, or some of us, know that a flame is simply visible gaseous molecules filled with kinetic energy. He will be able to absorb the Kinetic energy of End of Vermillion. The End of Vermillion was capable of making a way through a barrier that absorbs magic. The flames of vermillion were strong enough to destroy the barrier, however, this does not mean it has any level immune to absorption, it just means that it is just that powerful to destroy the barrier. There is nothing durability negating about the End of Vermillion (at least not on the profile; just claims without scans whatsoever.) These flames are just very powerful flames. As for Frost blaze, It is a flame that freezes at Absolute Zero temperatures, Chuck is resistant to Absolute Zero temperatures, and Charon simply absorbs the KE of those flames as well.

Prove the EoV flames negate durability, if they are just really powerful flames, explain how they are strong enough to bypass absorption that is 4.67 trillion times higher than Rubia's AP (because Rubia AP/DURA = Charon AP/DURA under SBA).


@Kflare63 @Jibz or anyone, any questions?

@GoldenScorpions why are you editing the pages during the debate... You made the edit to Rubia's about 6/7 times today during the debate. @Spinoirr this allowed?

They have layered powernull in dynamax form so all of chucks abilities are gone since they have no resistance to powernull on their profiles then they can use their haxes

 

[GoldenScorpions]

.

Sorry, speedster, but you continuously posting lists of abilities isn't really helping anyone or helping this thread stay readable and grounded

Some of the stuff was used to debate here, but I guess he deleted them later.

changed the wording to be more ambiguous
EoV used to be “the flames were strong enough to resist absorption”.. now it’s “the flames resist absorption”. Stuff like that.

Edit: scans being deleted contained evidence I could use to debunk EoV Dura beg claim, but I don’t think he did it intentionally. At least I can reclaim them.

I'd like to address that.
The nature of my edits on Rubia's profile is in the realm of adding scans and/or references to her existing abilities and feats to back them up (because they were really lacking), or of rewording sentences to make them more fluid and understandable, not in the realm of changing stats or adding abilities that weren't there before (if that was the case, then I would make a CRT; in fact I asked if Rubia's FB can count as AZ in a CRT). The example you provide (from "the flames were strong enough to resist absorption" to "the flames resist absorption") is essentially the same thing; the difference being that the flames resisting absorption isn't because of their power, but because of their nature; the difference is subtle but still there so a rewording was in order, however it doesn't change the fact that they resist absorption, the ability wasn't changed.

In terms of changes for the abilities, there's was only one I did, and that was a removal. After re-checking all the volumes the profiles are based on, I confirmed that Isolation Barrier doesn't, in fact, negate other barriers or revert enemy stat-amps (it's a different Barrier that does that and Rubia cannot use it; I unfortunately mixed the two barriers up); it can do the other things however, to which I added scans to back them up.
And on that topic

Prove the EoV flames negate durability

Point taken
In the process of regoing through the volumes, I checked all the times EoV is mentioned and there isn't any concrete proof that EoV negates durability. That's my bad. I don't know why EoV ended up with dura-neg when only FB has that property; I'll mention that finding in the aforementioned CRT to remove it from the profile. So you're correct that EoV doesn't dura-neg, it only bypasses fire-resist and resists absorption.

The End of Vermillion was capable of making a way through a barrier that absorbs magic. The flames of vermillion were strong enough to destroy the barrier, however, this does not mean it has any level immune to absorption, it just means that it is just that powerful to destroy the barrier.

Finally, just a correction here. This is the second part of the scene. The barrier doesn't actually get destroyed fully, EoV simply allows Claire to open a path through an absorbing barrier, and that's allowing her to keep going is EoV staying active as she keeps moving, and what's keeping EoV active is because it cannot get absorbed by the absorbing barrier.

 

[speedster352]

Sorry, speedster, but you continuously posting lists of abilities isn't really helping anyone or helping this thread stay readable and grounded

I'd like to address that.
The nature of my edits on Rubia's profile is in the realm of adding scans and/or references to her existing abilities and feats to back them up (because they were really lacking), or of rewording sentences to make them more fluid and understandable, not in the realm of changing stats or adding abilities that weren't there before (if that was the case, then I would make a CRT; in fact I asked if Rubia's FB can count as AZ in a CRT). The example you provide (from "the flames were strong enough to resist absorption" to "the flames resist absorption") is essentially the same thing; the difference being that the flames resisting absorption isn't because of their power, but because of their nature; the difference is subtle but still there so a rewording was in order, however it doesn't change the fact that they resist absorption, the ability wasn't changed.

In terms of changes for the abilities, there's was only one I did, and that was a removal. After re-checking all the volumes the profiles are based on, I confirmed that Isolation Barrier doesn't, in fact, negate other barriers or revert enemy stat-amps (it's a different Barrier that does that and Rubia cannot use it; I unfortunately mixed the two barriers up); it can do the other things however, to which I added scans to back them up.
And on that topic

Point taken
In the process of regoing through the volumes, I checked all the times EoV is mentioned and there isn't any concrete proof that EoV negates durability. That's my bad. I don't know why EoV ended up with dura-neg when only FB has that property; I'll mention that finding in the aforementioned CRT to remove it from the profile. So you're correct that EoV doesn't dura-neg, it only bypasses fire-resist and resists absorption.

Finally, just a correction here. This is the second part of the scene. The barrier doesn't actually get destroyed fully, EoV simply allows Claire to open a path through an absorbing barrier, and that's allowing her to keep going is EoV staying active as she keeps moving, and what's keeping EoV active is because it cannot get absorbed by the absorbing barrier.

We need some wincons

• Word of Power: A simple spell with which Rubia applies strong magic on her words, allowing her to control the thoughts and actions of the target over time, akin to a puppet. It can also manipulate the memories of the target. Not even characters with strong willpower, like Claire Rouge can resist it for long[1]
• Brand of Darkness: A spell that allows Rubia to do two things: 1) to seal away spirits, monsters, familiars, summons, and the like, making them unable to be used or summoned again, unless dispelled; 2) to cause intense pain, and force someone's inner power to become uncontrollable and berserk. In either case, physical contact is required[12]
• This is their new win cons

How is this?? Are they viable win cons?

 

[GoldenScorpions]

How is this?? Are they viable win cons?

Possibly

 

[speedster352]

Possibly

Any other win cons? Charizard has some one hit ko moves

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Normally, his durability is scaled to Town level, if you check the fire force page the town level calcs are 51.5 kilotons. Now Charon's absorption abilities drastically improve his durability. Thanks to this Charon was able to tank 240 Petatons of Tnt which is around the Multi-Continental range. This Tournament rules state that stats are equalized. Amped stats are not equalized, right? Therefore Charon's Town level of durability will be equalized. So how do we find the new absorption limit? Divide the Multicontinental feat (240 Petatons) with the town level feat (51.5 kilotons) to find how many times stronger Charon can amp himself at an All-stats equalized battle. Charon's absorption amp is 4.67 trillion times stronger than his equalized town-level AP and Durability.

I went back to check on the Fire Force profiles, and okay, now I understand the High 6-A feat.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, the feat of Charon releasing a 240 Petaton blast is the result of him absorbing a different 240 Petaton attack from Nataku, correct? In that case, because this is stat-equal, Charbia doesn't have a 240 Petaton attack, so even if Chuck absorbs they are unlikely to ever reach such a level of power in the span of this fight, though?
And since Charon absorbing attacks seems to limit what else he can do at the same time, wouldn't he be vulnerable if Charbia baits him with an attack for him to absorb, only for then to attack him in melee from the side of behind him with elemental attacks/Laevateinn? Rubia is smart and tactical enough intelligence to come up with that, and she has the means to do so through illusions, against which Chuck doesn't seem to resist.

 

[speedster352]

Anyway we have new win cons for charbia and we have 3 votes for charbia and only 1 for chuck. Let's get back to voting

 

[speedster352]

I went back to check on the Fire Force profiles, and okay, now I understand the High 6-A feat.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, the feat of Charon releasing a 240 Petaton blast is the result of him absorbing a different 240 Petaton attack from Nataku, correct? In that case, because this is stat-equal, Charbia doesn't have a 240 Petaton attack, so even if Chuck absorbs they are unlikely to ever reach such a level of power in the span of this fight, though?
And since Charon absorbing attacks seems to limit what else he can do at the same time, wouldn't he be vulnerable if Charbia baits him with an attack for him to absorb, only for then to attack him in melee from the side of behind him with elemental attacks/Laevateinn? Rubia is smart and tactical enough intelligence to come up with that, and she has the means to do so through illusions, against which Chuck doesn't seem to resist.

Can you list the win con for charbia or Rubia? Charizard has one hit ko moves amps and stat reduction and etc

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Charizard has some one hit ko moves

which ones?

 

[speedster352]

which ones?

Guilontine seems to be it.

• Slash: Charizard cuts its opponent apart with its claws.

For moves that it can learn by other means, see here
So what are Rubia's win cons