TegamiBachi25
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I think most of the SW mods are inactive at the moment and busy with real life stuff. We can still wait
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Star Wars Legends Cosmology Revision (Episode II: Attack of the 1-A God-Tiers)
- Thread starter StoneKillerz12
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #162
The 1-B to Low 1-A stuff comes from Barris Offee sensing "countless worlds without end beyond the ken of her senses" connected by The Force, her senses being amplified to 5-D (Low 1-C) through Oneness at the time, and via how they're described as "of a whole piece connected through vibrating strands of the force", are likely higher-dimensional space. Consistent with Hypergems containing planar networks leading into 5-D space.
Hyperspace arguably would get 1-B/Low 1-A if you'd assume this transcended all of this, but it's unclear whether or not Hyperspace is included as one of these "worlds without end".
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- Thread starter
- #163
Qawsed already agreed to this, that's one mod already.
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Sir Oven also responded earlier in this thread
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- #165
Not sure if I ever got your proper input, do you agree with 1-A for True Form Abeloth, Mortis Ghosts, GM Luke, Mortis Anakin, High 1-A+ for Oneness Jacen/Luke/Anakin, and 0 for The Force?
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Not sure on the Oneness amp tbh.
The Force being Tier 0 I am kinda neutral, but can see some point.
The rest, maybe.
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No objections have been raised to the provided information.
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It is mostly about who scales to whatever amp they got including the mind walking one
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- Thread starter
- #170
Made a Luke sandbox profile to better visualize what the changes I'm proposing are (1-C/5-A upgrades are gonna be in the next thread)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:StoneKillerz12/Luke_Skywalker_(Legends)
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:StoneKillerz12/Luke_Skywalker_(Legends)
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Should probably rewrite the AP section since you're missing the Dark Empire key.
Actually you have 5 keys but every other section only has 4 keys. You should fix that.
Abu2411
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Beyond Shadows and the Force being 1-A and 0 respectively is fine.
Also, with Mind-Walking, I think a separate key for a Mind Walker's True Form/Essence could also work, which I think looks a bit better than slapping it onto an existing key?
Should Force users not have a rating similar to "9-A. Varies, up to 1-C with the Force"? We know that a Force user's power depends heavily on their focus, belief and mental state (as seen in ESB) and it does explain away a lot of supposed anti-feats.
Also, with Mind-Walking, I think a separate key for a Mind Walker's True Form/Essence could also work, which I think looks a bit better than slapping it onto an existing key?
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Luke oneness shit has never happened in NJO Series he achieved a fraud version against Shimra and his slayers
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Also how is oneness being the same makes sense A LOT OF ONENESS Characters have anti feats including lukes oneness which he still struggled with the vong, vice versa with anakin solo. Anakin skywalker's oneness still made him die from sidious lightning, ALL of these characters never merged entirely with the force, they surrender to the force but not anything like Jacen's. Which was stated to special multiple times
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- Thread starter
- #175
Luke's state of Oneness in his final fight against Abeloth was explicitly enough to completely stomp Abeloth by accessing that state, who is already 1-A. Surrendering to The Force alone causes one to lose all individuality and differentiation other than The Force, which is at least 1-A.
At the very least, Jacen's form of Oneness is very explicitly High 1-A+, if not 0 if what is going on with Void Ryougi and Oversoul Spectre is approved.
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I might have a different suggestion regarding Oneness, although it might sound a bit strange.
Almost all Oneness forms mention merging with the Force, which somehow feels like it refers to their souls. In this sense, the soul and body separate, with the body functioning as an avatar.
As for why I mentioned this, I believe that since their souls merge with the Force, they should be considered Tier 0, while their avatar forms should be at a lower level. For example:
Fate of the Jedi Luke Oneness: true form = Tier 0, avatar form = Tier 1-A.
Almost all Oneness forms mention merging with the Force, which somehow feels like it refers to their souls. In this sense, the soul and body separate, with the body functioning as an avatar.
As for why I mentioned this, I believe that since their souls merge with the Force, they should be considered Tier 0, while their avatar forms should be at a lower level. For example:
Fate of the Jedi Luke Oneness: true form = Tier 0, avatar form = Tier 1-A.
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There are several reasons for this:
1. It varies from writer to writer; one writer may depict a character as Tier 10-B, while another portrays them as Tier 4-B. This can be attributed to plot convenience.
2. Power levels differ across planets, but writer inconsistencies play a role again. Sometimes, a Force user on a planet is shown as extremely powerful, while other times as very weak.
3. Force users generally have low piercing durability, meaning they can take significant damage from piercing weapons with relative ease.
More reasons could be listed, but these are the ones that come to mind right now. Overall, it's mostly due to writer errors.I'm not sure if this would make a significant difference, but I wanted to point it out. There’s one undeniable truth in Star Wars: no ordinary human can match a Force user. So, it ultimately comes down to writer inconsistencies.
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That isn’t necessarily true since the Old Republic Era and later Eras has the Mandos literally stated to fight off against Force Users a few times.
Mandalorian Excision
Mandalorian Space was occupied and disarmed, with a caretaker government created from elements of the failed peace movement. The occupation would last for decades, and create a new schism in Mandalorian society.Vilnau Teupt The Mandalorian Excision of 738 BBY—known to Mandalorian natives as the...
starwars.fandom.com
Mandalorian Wars
The Mandalorian Wars was the term given to the sixteen years of conflict between the Mandalorian warrior culture and the Galactic Republic that began in 3976 BBY with the Battle of Althir. Occurring two decades after the end of the Great Sith War, the Mandalorian Wars spanned almost two decades...
starwars.fandom.com
In addition to that, we got Boba Fett faring against Darth Vader. Not once, but twice in the Imperial Era
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That isn’t necessarily true since the Old Republic Era and later Eras has the Mandos literally stated to fight off against Force Users a few times.
Mandalorian Excision
Mandalorian Space was occupied and disarmed, with a caretaker government created from elements of the failed peace movement. The occupation would last for decades, and create a new schism in Mandalorian society.Vilnau Teupt The Mandalorian Excision of 738 BBY—known to Mandalorian natives as the...
In addition to that, we got Boba Fett faring against Darth Vader. Not once, but twice in the Imperial Era
That's exactly what I was talking about. The idea of a normal human competing with a Force user is pure nonsense. I don't think I even need to explain why—it's simply due to writer inconsistencies and nothing more.
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We can’t unfortunately chalk it up as writer inconsistencies especially when we also have Order 66 with the Clone Army in the Prequel Trilogy that has Clones shooting at the Jedi in the Jedi Temple of Coruscant.
Even Jedi Masters were killed as well.
Hence I recall myself agreeing to a “Varies rating” for Force Users in that regard.
Also are we forgetting about HK 47?
That one droid (Made by Darth Revan) was especially used to go against Jedi specifically and was well known in how good he was at killing force users I recall.
Even Jedi Masters were killed as well.
Hence I recall myself agreeing to a “Varies rating” for Force Users in that regard.
Also are we forgetting about HK 47?
That one droid (Made by Darth Revan) was especially used to go against Jedi specifically and was well known in how good he was at killing force users I recall.
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But here's the issue: how do we determine this?
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From what I remember on cases such as this, it probably been better to do feats and statements separate by eras, then go through it with a fine comb as there is the Vongs as well. Even the Jedi Order led by Luke Skywalker have difficulties dealing with the Vongs in the New Republic Era.
I can guarantee you the Jedi Order has known to suffering losses in conflicts.
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This should been referring to the base form of Force Users excluding the whole Oneness amps and all that.
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This seems like it will cause a lot of confusion.
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Perhaps, but thankfully there are respect threads online that show what Era the feats came from and all.
Also, I believe Oven is specifically referring to the base form of Force Users rather than the oneness amps and all that.
Should been a separate topic from the original topic discussed in the OP though.
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I agree; this topic doesn't belong to this crt.
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Okay 1-A sure, idk how it scales to one time oneness from jacen which is different from the other's by a lot
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- Thread starter
- #190
Would you be okay with Oneness Luke being 1 layer above baseline 1-A?
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Well Oneness luke did beat the crap out of abeloth. But how does that make him layer above 1-A he isn't infinitely stronger then Abeloth
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I have followed the legends cosmo for a VERY long time and have personally scaled SW to 1-A for a while and this basically sums up my entire scale (peak)
I agree
I agree
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From what I've heard LordVader talk about earlier, apparently Oversoul Spectre may be upgraded to Tier 0 via merging with The Divine Presence. We discussed how a similar tiering could be applied for Jacen's Oneness as he's returning to a Tier 0 essence (The Force).
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I'm curious, what was the absolute top structure in your SW legends cosmology? Beyond Shadows too?
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No. I can agree with 0 force and other entities in the new VSBW system, but 1-A is where 99% of Star Wars caps
0 Force/Divine Presence is entirely fine
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Nice. Did you consider the apocryphal "Supernatural Encounters" in your cosmo? I know it's 'not canon' but since it's gonna be added to the VSBW site I think it's pertinent to eventually discuss it, if you consider it you end up having some characters at High-1A+.
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I saw the arguments for it, and the fact that it was officially licensed at some point, which would make me consider it a part of EU canon
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Someone completely debunked this in the 1st part of the crt. Plus that contradicts some stuff I thnk in legends
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https://vsbattles.com/threads/star-...egends-cosmology-overview.174163/post-6844187
Unfortunately that has been disputed and we can not use Supernatural Encounters as it was never officially published as Legend material
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It was given the licence, which honestly, is good enough.
If someone signs off on a publication but for reasons it cannot be fully released, this is not a valid debunk
- licensed
- was to be released under the EU umbrella before being cancelled (idr why)
Good enough imo.
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