Sora (Kingdom Hearts) VS Yang Qi (Sage Monarch)

[Georredannea15]

You have literally been told otherwise by knowledgable members before, but at this point I will stop derailing this thread

Show a proof? No knowledgeable staff or even a user has ever told me that nasuverse has Type 1 concepts or infinite layers, and this has never been the case before. You're good at twisting words.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Show a proof? No knowledgeable staff or even a user has ever told me that nasuverse has Type 1 concepts or infinite layers, and this has never been the case before. You're good at twisting words.

shush im the one asking and the one talking to him not you

to further support ThanatosX argument
Subjective reality and reality warping can be resisted if their effect is something that Sora already exists
so does Law manipulation.
if the law is intended to do something that he ultimately resist Sora can resist the effect but not the cause

 

[Georredannea15]

shush im the one asking and the one talking to him not you

to further support ThanatosX argument
Subjective reality and reality warping can be resisted if their effect is something that Sora already exists
so does Law manipulation.
if the law is intended to do something that he ultimately resist Sora can resist the effect but not the cause

huh?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Ngl, my comments were more for preventing a FRA train because I thought that some other supporters were interested in the match-up, I didn't want to actively participate in it since matches stress me a bit ... But whatever, I will make one last comment and than leave it as it is.

I see. I would appreciate it if you asked another supporter to participate.

There doesn't seem anything that can actually counter High-Godly and Immortality Type 8. Law Manipulation would cause him to die, which would make them kick in. Chaos Manipulation is an Incap that turns him into something else, something that High-Godly and Immortality Type 8 already countered when he was turned into an Heartless. And for Subjective Reality you didn't exaplain how he applies it to get rid of the enemies, but if it's something that kills or permanently incapacitate Sora than High-Godly and Immortality will kick in once again.

Yang Qi has immortality type 8 negation, just not up-to HGR. Chaos Manipulation is permanent incap as he doesn't resist it. Even Law Manipulation can be incap if Yang Qi modifies the laws of life and death for Sora. The subjective reality is overlaying reality, negating everything with their own personal imagination. For example Ghost Emperor Yama's ideal world is this hellscape. Within this subjective reality what they think happens. Which Sora doesn't resist.

First of all, how exactly is Yang Qi infinitely above baseline? Because the only way to be in any way above baseline is throught scaling chains. Destroying an infinite amount of Low 1-C structure would still qualify as baseline since, as explained by Ultima, infinite*infinite = infinite. And if he is, instead, infinite^infinite it would make him 1-C. An example of this is Infinity Ultron, which was previously assumed to be infinitely above baseline 2-A, but since that was impossible he was upgrade to Low 1-C.
Second, even assuming he is infinitely above baseling 6-D in AP, that wouldn't make him infinitely above baseline in range. If he is, for example, able to travel across an infinite amount of Low 1-C structures than that wouldn't make him above baseline in range. The only way to have above baseling range is to be able to reach, in this case, a Low 1-C realm that is unreachable even to people that have Low 1-C range. And the Final World is a lot above baseline in this regard.
Third, if Neva sees a 6-D cosmology as fiction than that would make it easily 7-D, so what is he even doing in the Non-Smurf list?
But apart from that, him following Sora in the Final World not only is unlikely given everything said above, but it would also be a bad move from him since Sora could just seal him in there.

Qualitively being infinitely above baseline would be along the lines of being 1-C. He is infinitely above baseline because he is just above 2-A but in 6D form. Something being out of reach for 6D entirely depends on how many structures, by that I mean, for example baseline 6D affecting one 6D structure but some far away place is outside their range. Compared to say being able to affect infinite 6D structures but some place is outside your reach.

In regards to Sage Monarch, the God World is a 2-A 6D world. Being able to affect it doesn't mean you can reach structures outside of that. Within and outside of the God World exist personal worlds, one of them being Yang Qi's world which was comparable to the God World but later surpassed it. Everything is contained in a void large enough to contain all worlds, a void filled with primal chaos. Yang Qi can affect the entirety of his plane of existence considering he destroyed the God World and can affect this void.

As much as I don't find this convincing, I will allign with what is on the profile so I will concede on this.
Thought, Sora doesn't need to interact with him for certain things. For example, Sealing is a douable option given that he would seal the realm he is inside rather than him, and his Sealing is not only layered, but I believe it can even bypass Sealing Negation. Thought, while I am sure for the first, I wont bet on the second one since I don't know what was accepted and what not, so don't take my word for it.

How will Sora do this though? From the Final World? Yang Qi's range would reach there too BTW. Lets say his range doesn't and for some reason Sora can reach Yang Qi and seal the SBA universe (now a void), he just ignores it with transduality. He has other ways, for example ignoring space-time and travelling using the gap between the real and unreal is fodder tier.

Sora's time travel is a bit peculiar, considering that it's not a traditional one, but rather a conseguence of him rewriting certain events. Thanks to this, he is able to create contradicting histories in the same timeline.

Has it ever worked on someone who doesn't exist on the timeline, is nonexistent and transdual? The events he is trying to rewrite are both paradoxical and don't exist.

Also I will remind you that Yang Qi already knows what Sora will do with his precog.

As I already said previously, the standards for Acausality Type 5 changed and this alone is not enough. Lucifer had similiar reasoning but was rejected because it was deemed as insufficient for the current standards.
But I noticed that Yang Qi was recently brought up in the Acausality Type 5 checklist thread, so we should wait and see what Glass think of it. Until than, I don't think that Acausality should be considered in this fight.

You misread. I was specifically talking about his acausality type 4, not 5. I am aware of that thread but wasn't aware someone brought up Yang Qi, thank you. I was preparing something in a sandbox for that thread too...

I ignored Reality Warping because by itself it's useless, it's the application of it that makes the difference. RW allows someone to perform other haxes, like transmutation, law manipulation, ecc... Sora resists multiple application of Reality Warping, so it all depends what he uses it for.
And Fate Manipulation by itself can be countered by the Power of Waking, which also allows him to change destined events as seen when he uses it to undo the prophecy of Darkness winning and to come back even if he is "destined" to die or lose.

It isn't useless. Reality Warping, Conceptual Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Plot Manipulation, it doesn't matter if you resist the effects if you don't resist the source. If someone uses plot manipulation to make you die instantly (Death Manipulation) on X day, you will die on that day, even if you resist Death Manipulation.

Fodder in Sage Monarch can counter Fate Manipulation with their passive laws and personal truths.

 

[Georredannea15]

Frankly, I'm not sure why this is still being discussed. Sora has no interaction whatsoever with haxes such as Type 5 Acausality, TD2, or NEP2. These are long dead, now bury him.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Frankly, I'm not sure why this is still being discussed. Sora has no interaction whatsoever with haxes such as Type 5 Acausality, TD2, or NEP2. These are long dead, now bury him.

Acausality type 5 was rejected by glass.
TD 2 only applies to things that exist within the verse

Also I'm putting into question how is he NEP aspect 4 when there isn't any indication or proof that a type 2 information is fundamental or existing within this verse

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Also I'm putting into question how is he NEP aspect 4 when there isn't any indication or proof that a type 2 information is fundamental or existing within this verse

ctrl + f on Yang Qi's first key.

 

[Georredannea15]

Acausality type 5 was rejected by glass.
TD 2 only applies to things that exist within the verse

Also I'm putting into question how is he NEP aspect 4 when there isn't any indication or proof that a type 2 information is fundamental or existing within this verse

All right, remove Type 5 Acausality. Sora is still cannot interact with him(Type 2 NEP with all aspects and TD2) Also, in such a case, something like Type 2 information manipulation cannot really save you.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

ctrl + f on Yang Qi's first key.

mb i missed that for some reason
though does that mirage world also exist up to the higher realms in Sage Monarch?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

mb i missed that for some reason
though does that mirage world also exist up to the higher realms in Sage Monarch?

No. The mirage world is just a pocket dimension that has altered laws of life and death.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

It seems unlikely that supporters will show up. Any vote after this will be in OP.

 

[Georredannea15]

Yang Qi FRA

 

[ThanatosX]

Qualitively being infinitely above baseline would be along the lines of being 1-C. He is infinitely above baseline because he is just above 2-A but in 6D form. Something being out of reach for 6D entirely depends on how many structures, by that I mean, for example baseline 6D affecting one 6D structure but some far away place is outside their range. Compared to say being able to affect infinite 6D structures but some place is outside your reach.

In regards to Sage Monarch, the God World is a 2-A 6D world. Being able to affect it doesn't mean you can reach structures outside of that. Within and outside of the God World exist personal worlds, one of them being Yang Qi's world which was comparable to the God World but later surpassed it. Everything is contained in a void large enough to contain all worlds, a void filled with primal chaos. Yang Qi can affect the entirety of his plane of existence considering he destroyed the God World and can affect this void.

I know I said that the previous one was going to be my last comment, but I saw this only now and I just want to quickly say that this is still baseline 6-D. Destroying an infinite amount of 6-D strucutures (a 2-A amount of Low 1-C structures, as you said) is still baseline 6-D the same way destroying an infinite amount of 2-A structures is still baseline 2-A, because infinite*infinite is still infinite and doesn't create an higher infinite. The only way to be higher than baseline from 2-A onwards is thanks to scaling chain and a few other things. So all of this would still be baseline in a 6-D prespective. I myself don't fully agree with this system, but this is how it works according to Ultima and many other experts in Tier 2 and 1
Regarding the second point about range, being able to travel between different 6-D structure would still not be above baseline range, just like travelling across different 2-A structure would not be above baseline 2-A range unless the other structures are impossible to access even with 6-D range. Yang Qi being able to reach outside structures would be above baseling range if said structure are impossible to reach even to characters with Low 1-C range, but the Final World is a bit higher than that. Most characters in the verse have 6-D range, being able to freely traverse the Low 1-C Realm Between, but even characters that are able to do that are unable to reach the Realm of Darkness, making the RoD one layer above baseline 6-D range. And even those that are able to reach the Realm of Darkness are completely incapable of going reaching the Final World in normal ways, making it at least two layers above baseline, thought it might be higher if we take into consideration other realms like the Sleeping Worlds and such.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

I know I said that the previous one was going to be my last comment, but I saw this only now and I just want to quickly say that this is still baseline 6-D. Destroying an infinite amount of 6-D strucutures (a 2-A amount of Low 1-C structures, as you said) is still baseline 6-D the same way destroying an infinite amount of 2-A structures is still baseline 2-A, because infinite*infinite is still infinite and doesn't create an higher infinite. The only way to be higher than baseline from 2-A onwards is thanks to scaling chain and a few other things. So all of this would still be baseline in a 6-D prespective. I myself don't fully agree with this system, but this is how it works according to Ultima and many other experts in Tier 2 and 1
Regarding the second point about range, being able to travel between different 6-D structure would still not be above baseline range, just like travelling across different 2-A structure would not be above baseline 2-A range unless the other structures are impossible to access even with 6-D range. Yang Qi being able to reach outside structures would be above baseling range if said structure are impossible to reach even to characters with Low 1-C range, but the Final World is a bit higher than that. Most characters in the verse have 6-D range, being able to freely traverse the Low 1-C Realm Between, but even characters that are able to do that are unable to reach the Realm of Darkness, making the RoD one layer above baseline 6-D range. And even those that are able to reach the Realm of Darkness are completely incapable of going reaching the Final World in normal ways, making it at least two layers above baseline, thought it might be higher if we take into consideration other realms like the Sleeping Worlds and such.

I fail to see the point of your post because I used a tier 2 analogy in my last post. Also you're equating a 6D character being able to affect a single 6D structure to a 6D character affecting an infinite amount. One is baseline in the truest sense such that they actually qualify for the minimum requirement while the other is infinitely above the minimum requirement.

If said low 1-C range can only reach one 6D plane but can't reach another, but they somehow end up reaching it later, that isn't equal in any shape or form to a low 1-C character who can actually reach an infinite amount of 6D planes but can't reach a specific place, then somehow reaching such a place.

It is like saying a low 2-C character not being able to reach a certain place, means his range is above baseline in such a way that it is superior to someone that has 2-A range.

 

[ThanatosX]

I fail to see the point of your post because I used a tier 2 analogy in my last post. Also you're equating a 6D character being able to affect a single 6D structure to a 6D character affecting an infinite amount. One is baseline in the truest sense such that they actually qualify for the minimum requirement while the other is infinitely above the minimum requirement.

As I said before, this doesn't make it infinitely above baseline. Destroying and infinite amount of 6-D would still be baseline the same way that destroying an infinite amount of 2-A structure would still be baseline. In the 2-A case it would be Infinite*infinite, which would still be infinite, aka baseline, while in the Low 1-C case it would be uncountable infinite*infinite, which would still be uncountable infinite, not infinitely above uncountable infinite.
You can ask Ultima for this. He made the revision that removed the notion that infinite 2-A structures is infinitely above baeeline 2-A a long time ago, and the same applies to higher Tiers since the logic of "infinite" works the same way. For now I can link you this message that briefly talks about this: "we don't really accept that there any any jumps in size that are higher than "baseline" 2-A but smaller than Low 1-C (See the standards on the destruction of multiple infinite multiverses); the smallest skip in size at that point is just Tier 1. Meanwhile with Low 2-C we are forced to include a bunch of shit between it and Low 1-C."
To put it simply, Yang Qi is either baseline 6-D or is 7-D. There is no middle ground like "infinitely above baseline 6-D" without any scaling chain that support this notion.

If said low 1-C range can only reach one 6D plane but can't reach another, but they somehow end up reaching it later, that isn't equal in any shape or form to a low 1-C character who can actually reach an infinite amount of 6D planes but can't reach a specific place, then somehow reaching such a place.

It is like saying a low 2-C character not being able to reach a certain place, means his range is above baseline in such a way that it is superior to someone that has 2-A range.

The same notion is applied with range. A 6-D structure is an uncountably infinite one, being able to traverse an infinite amount of uncountable infinite structures would still be uncountable infinite unless, as I said before, someone able to traverse an uncountable infinite space is unable to even reach that.
The difference Low 2-C is that a Low 2-C structure is "infinite" in a temporal sense, not in a spatial sense unless specified. A 2-A structure is infinite in a spatial and temporal sense.

 

[Fezzih_007]

What are Sora wincons here?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

As I said before, this doesn't make it infinitely above baseline. Destroying and infinite amount of 6-D would still be baseline the same way that destroying an infinite amount of 2-A structure would still be baseline. In the 2-A case it would be Infinite*infinite, which would still be infinite, aka baseline, while in the Low 1-C case it would be uncountable infinite*infinite, which would still be uncountable infinite, not infinitely above uncountable infinite.

I feel like you are assuming all 6D characters can affect infinite 6D planes and are thus using the tiering system FAQ for 2-A. 6D baseline is one 6D structure, anything above that requires evidence. We don't assume all 6D characters can affect all 6D planes ad-infinitum. I will get into the 2-A bit in my latter bit.

You can ask Ultima for this. He made the revision that removed the notion that infinite 2-A structures is infinitely above baeeline 2-A a long time ago, and the same applies to higher Tiers since the logic of "infinite" works the same way. For now I can link you this message that briefly talks about this: "we don't really accept that there any any jumps in size that are higher than "baseline" 2-A but smaller than Low 1-C (See the standards on the destruction of multiple infinite multiverses); the smallest skip in size at that point is just Tier 1. Meanwhile with Low 2-C we are forced to include a bunch of shit between it and Low 1-C."
To put it simply, Yang Qi is either baseline 6-D or is 7-D. There is no middle ground like "infinitely above baseline 6-D" without any scaling chain that support this notion.

They're talking about being larger than 2-A but smaller than low 1-C not being feasible. You're equating 2-A to Low 1-C in such a way that you're assuming it is infinite in a 2-A such a way that any finite or infinite difference in structures is indistinguishable in both range and potency.

Tier 2 is segmented based on the number of separate universes affected. With 2-A being a countably infinite number of universes. While Low 1-C (6D) has the bare minimum of a single 6D structure, not an infinite amount.

The same notion is applied with range. A 6-D structure is an uncountably infinite one, being able to traverse an infinite amount of uncountable infinite structures would still be uncountable infinite unless, as I said before, someone able to traverse an uncountable infinite space is unable to even reach that.
The difference Low 2-C is that a Low 2-C structure is "infinite" in a temporal sense, not in a spatial sense unless specified. A 2-A structure is infinite in a spatial and temporal sense.

No, the same notion would not apply. A singular Low 1-C realm is uncountably infinite yes, but you're using a countably infinite structure (2-A) to reach the assumption that there is no difference. 5D range, 6D range and so on entirely depends on how many structures you've been shown to affect. We don't automatically assume the entire plane of existence is within your grasp. I can't believe I have to say that a character affecting one 6D world has a lower range than a character that can affect 2, much less infinite.

Also by your logic, Yang Qi would still be infinitely above baseline. Seeing as you believe someone being able affect one 6D structure but with another being out of reach is 1 layer. Now do that infinitely and you probably reach Half-Annulled (his tier wasn't a jump, it was a grind).

 

[ThanatosX]

I feel like you are assuming all 6D characters can affect infinite 6D planes and are thus using the tiering system FAQ for 2-A. 6D baseline is one 6D structure, anything above that requires evidence. We don't assume all 6D characters can affect all 6D planes ad-infinitum. I will get into the 2-A bit in my latter bit.

They're talking about being larger than 2-A but smaller than low 1-C not being feasible. You're equating 2-A to Low 1-C in such a way that you're assuming it is infinite in a 2-A such a way that any finite or infinite difference in structures is indistinguishable in both range and potency.

Tier 2 is segmented based on the number of separate universes affected. With 2-A being a countably infinite number of universes. While Low 1-C (6D) has the bare minimum of a single 6D structure, not an infinite amount.

No, the same notion would not apply. A singular Low 1-C realm is uncountably infinite yes, but you're using a countably infinite structure (2-A) to reach the assumption that there is no difference. 5D range, 6D range and so on entirely depends on how many structures you've been shown to affect. We don't automatically assume the entire plane of existence is within your grasp. I can't believe I have to say that a character affecting one 6D world has a lower range than a character that can affect 2, much less infinite.

Also by your logic, Yang Qi would still be infinitely above baseline. Seeing as you believe someone being able affect one 6D structure but with another being out of reach is 1 layer. Now do that infinitely and you probably reach Half-Annulled (his tier wasn't a jump, it was a grind).

I will ask Ultima for confirmations, but I am pretty sure the same logic applies to any Tier that is higher than 2-A since the logic should be the exact same given than once infinite is reached, the only way to reach a level higher than baseline would be to reach a higher infinite.
He might not respond since he is busy, so in the meanwhile this can continue.

 

[Georredannea15]

I feel like you are assuming all 6D characters can affect infinite 6D planes and are thus using the tiering system FAQ for 2-A. 6D baseline is one 6D structure, anything above that requires evidence. We don't assume all 6D characters can affect all 6D planes ad-infinitum. I will get into the 2-A bit in my latter bit.


They're talking about being larger than 2-A but smaller than low 1-C not being feasible. You're equating 2-A to Low 1-C in such a way that you're assuming it is infinite in a 2-A such a way that any finite or infinite difference in structures is indistinguishable in both range and potency.

Tier 2 is segmented based on the number of separate universes affected. With 2-A being a countably infinite number of universes. While Low 1-C (6D) has the bare minimum of a single 6D structure, not an infinite amount.

No, the same notion would not apply. A singular Low 1-C realm is uncountably infinite yes, but you're using a countably infinite structure (2-A) to reach the assumption that there is no difference. 5D range, 6D range and so on entirely depends on how many structures you've been shown to affect. We don't automatically assume the entire plane of existence is within your grasp. I can't believe I have to say that a character affecting one 6D world has a lower range than a character that can affect 2, much less infinite.

Also by your logic, Yang Qi would still be infinitely above baseline. Seeing as you believe someone being able affect one 6D structure but with another being out of reach is 1 layer. Now do that infinitely and you probably reach Half-Annulled (his tier wasn't a jump, it was a grind).

I want to say something. Even if you destroy the infinite universes in 6-D, you still have baseline hax layers, not infinite. For this to be infinite, you need to influence an infinite number of overwhelmingly superior layers through hax. Otherwise it only gives you layers with AP, not with hax.

But where I'm confused is, are you the one defending this or ThanatosX?

 

[Georredannea15]

I will ask Ultima for confirmations, but I am pretty sure the same logic applies to any Tier that is higher than 2-A since the logic should be the exact same given than once infinite is reached, the only way to reach a level higher than baseline would be to reach a higher infinite.
He might not respond since he is busy, so in the meanwhile this can continue.

The reason this happens in 2-A is because there is no damn an any layer above 2-A. But I would still recommend asking DT or Ultima.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

I will ask Ultima for confirmations, but I am pretty sure the same logic applies to any Tier that is higher than 2-A since the logic should be the exact same given than once infinite is reached, the only way to reach a level higher than baseline would be to reach a higher infinite.
He might not respond since he is busy, so in the meanwhile this can continue.

There is nothing to discuss until then. Yang Qi will most likely send him to the Final World before he can incap.

I want to say something. Even if you destroy the infinite universes in 6-D, you still have baseline hax layers, not infinite. For this to be infinite, you need to influence an infinite number of overwhelmingly superior layers through hax. Otherwise it only gives you layers with AP, not with hax.

But where I'm confused is, are you the one defending this or ThanatosX?

I agree on the hax.

Hax? We're talking about range.

 

[Georredannea15]

There is nothing to discuss until then. Yang Qi will most likely send him to the Final World before he can incap.


I agree on the hax.

Hax? We're talking about range.

Ahhh I see. If it's about the range... I can't say anything about that. Logically correct, but I have also come across a few cases where some 2-Cs were as large as Low2-C. This may be the case.

 

[Fezzih_007]

What are Sora wincons here?

 

[Robo432343]

yang qi kinda stomp ngl

 

[Fezzih_007]

Yeah, don't see what Sora can do here, besides not dying.

 

[Rabbit2002]

First of all, how exactly is Yang Qi infinitely above baseline? Because the only way to be in any way above baseline is throught scaling chains. Destroying an infinite amount of Low 1-C structure would still qualify as baseline since, as explained by Ultima, infinite*infinite = infinite. And if he is, instead, infinite^infinite it would make him 1-C. An example of this is Infinity Ultron, which was previously assumed to be infinitely above baseline 2-A, but since that was impossible he was upgrade to Low 1-C.
Second, even assuming he is infinitely above baseling 6-D in AP, that wouldn't make him infinitely above baseline in range. If he is, for example, able to travel across an infinite amount of Low 1-C structures than that wouldn't make him above baseline in range. The only way to have above baseling range is to be able to reach, in this case, a Low 1-C realm that is unreachable even to people that have Low 1-C range. And the Final World is a lot above baseline in this regard.
Third, if Neva sees a 6-D cosmology as fiction than that would make it easily 7-D, so what is he even doing in the Non-Smurf list?
But apart from that, him following Sora in the Final World not only is unlikely given everything said above, but it would also be a bad move from him since Sora could just seal him in there.

As I said before, this doesn't make it infinitely above baseline. Destroying and infinite amount of 6-D would still be baseline the same way that destroying an infinite amount of 2-A structure would still be baseline. In the 2-A case it would be Infinite*infinite, which would still be infinite, aka baseline, while in the Low 1-C case it would be uncountable infinite*infinite, which would still be uncountable infinite, not infinitely above uncountable infinite.
You can ask Ultima for this. He made the revision that removed the notion that infinite 2-A structures is infinitely above baeeline 2-A a long time ago, and the same applies to higher Tiers since the logic of "infinite" works the same way. For now I can link you this message that briefly talks about this: "we don't really accept that there any any jumps in size that are higher than "baseline" 2-A but smaller than Low 1-C (See the standards on the destruction of multiple infinite multiverses); the smallest skip in size at that point is just Tier 1. Meanwhile with Low 2-C we are forced to include a bunch of shit between it and Low 1-C."
To put it simply, Yang Qi is either baseline 6-D or is 7-D. There is no middle ground like "infinitely above baseline 6-D" without any scaling chain that support this notion.


The same notion is applied with range. A 6-D structure is an uncountably infinite one, being able to traverse an infinite amount of uncountable infinite structures would still be uncountable infinite unless, as I said before, someone able to traverse an uncountable infinite space is unable to even reach that.
The difference Low 2-C is that a Low 2-C structure is "infinite" in a temporal sense, not in a spatial sense unless specified. A 2-A structure is infinite in a spatial and temporal sense.

Didn't really want to get into this but it looks like what you need is Yang Qi to really have proof that more than baseline 6-D without destroying an infinite amount of 6-D structure? Like a character with a 6-D range that clearly demonstrates the inability to reach other 6-D places due to them being further away?

If so, then you may have found the right one

 

[ThanatosX]

So, DontTalkDT replied to my question regarding the above baseline standards for 6-D, and the response was interesting. Regarding range, he said that traversing an infinite amount of 6-D structures would indeed be above baseline, so you were right Muchacho_mrm.
For AP, the thing get more complicated since, from what I understood, he said that destroying one single infinite 6-D structure is above baseline by itself, because it would destroy something infinite in a m^6 scale. So, in this case, both Sora and Yang Qi, would be above baseline to some degree. Here is his response btw.
I asked if the same logic applies to destroying an infinite amount of infinite m^6 structures just for future reference, but for the purpose of this specifical fight the simple fact that Yang Qi can indeed reach the Final World already screw Sora over, so I think this is a stomp since the only chance he had was to stalemate him with High Godly, something that would be impossible to do at this point.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

the first one regarding infinite size makes sense
but the infinite amount of infinite m^6 is teetering close to the "infinite x infinite = infinite" logic

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

@ThanatosX We'll wait 48 hours then and see if something changes.

 

[Unqver]

It is obvious that Yang Ji will win.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Yeah if thats the case then back tatoo wins

 

[ThanatosX]

Ultima replied too, and said that destroying an infinite number of infinite 6-D structures would be equal to destroying a single infinite 6-D.
So, basically, destroying an infinite amount of finite 6-D structure would be above baseline because it would be equal to destroying an infinite 6-D structure, while destroying an infinite amount of infinite 6-D structures would not have any weight over AP, since it would be equal to destroying a single infinite 6-D structure.
This would put Sora and Yang Qi as almost equal in AP, but as I said before the range screws over Sora so the result doesn't change and this is still a stomp in Yang Qi favor. Thought it's an interesting topic, so I am glad this was discussed. Here is his reply, if anyone is interested in reading it.

 

[Robo432343]

Ultima replied too, and said that destroying an infinite number of infinite 6-D structures would be equal to destroying a single infinite 6-D.
So, basically, destroying an infinite amount of finite 6-D structure would be above baseline because it would be equal to destroying an infinite 6-D structure, while destroying an infinite amount of infinite 6-D structures would not have any weight over AP, since it would be equal to destroying a single infinite 6-D structure.
This would put Sora and Yang Qi as almost equal in AP, but as I said before the range screws over Sora so the result doesn't change and this is still a stomp in Yang Qi favor. Thought it's an interesting topic, so I am glad this was discussed. Here is his reply, if anyone is interested in reading it.

bro just said 6D structure isn't Low 1-C
am confused

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Ultima replied too, and said that destroying an infinite number of infinite 6-D structures would be equal to destroying a single infinite 6-D.
So, basically, destroying an infinite amount of finite 6-D structure would be above baseline because it would be equal to destroying an infinite 6-D structure, while destroying an infinite amount of infinite 6-D structures would not have any weight over AP, since it would be equal to destroying a single infinite 6-D structure.
This would put Sora and Yang Qi as almost equal in AP, but as I said before the range screws over Sora so the result doesn't change and this is still a stomp in Yang Qi favor. Thought it's an interesting topic, so I am glad this was discussed. Here is his reply, if anyone is interested in reading it.

This makes me want to make a staff thread to just put a note on the wiki, but I am afraid it will get turned into a 1 year+ dead thread.

bro just said 6D structure isn't Low 1-C
am confused

I think they means axis. For example Yang Qi is 8+ dimensional because the verse has up-to 8th dimensional structures.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

yan qi fra

 

[Robo432343]

is this thread gonna be closed

 

[Fezzih_007]

Probally, since this is a stomp.

Whatever, Yan qi fra

 

[Kirinator07]

Then remove the votes

 

[Bobsican]

MFW a KH thread was made without notifying me

Anyways...

1: Sora not only has a layered EE resistance, he can also still exist in a cosmological void, he also has innate true flight, so he doesn't need a floor to do stuff either, it's even a plot point once.

2: I'm sure we already went on Yang Qi not having infinite hax layers, namely out of that not being formally accepted by the staff, which is why he was even rated below Xue Ying, as they're baseline at the moment, unless a CRT happened or something on this regard since then?

3: May I remind Sora has at least 27 hax layers on most of his abilities/resistances? This in turns heavily limits what Yang Qi can do.

4: Having type 1 CM doesn't mean you can negate High-Godly regeneration, as much having Matter Manipulation doesn't mean you can negate High regen, they're just disruptive abilities at best in this kind of cases and the regen ability just restores the character back to normal anyways, it seems @ThanatosX already went on how permanent incaps were also covered by the High-Godly type 8.

5: I must remind that Law Manip isn't inherently above layered type 1 CM and type 2 info manip, even while Yang Qi also has those abilities, they're on a baseline degree as far current consensus goes, unlike Sora's, so I'm iffy on that allowing to practically "negate" anything from him.

6: SBA doesn't include merging cosmologies, the place SBA takes place on is separate from the cosmology of either participant AFAIK, although abilities reliant on cosmological stuff are assumed to merely being able to reach there.

7:

I ignored Reality Warping because by itself it's useless, it's the application of it that makes the difference. RW allows someone to perform other haxes, like transmutation, law manipulation, ecc... Sora resists multiple application of Reality Warping, so it all depends what he uses it for.
And Fate Manipulation by itself can be countered by the Power of Waking, which also allows him to change destined events as seen when he uses it to undo the prophecy of Darkness winning and to come back even if he is "destined" to die or lose.

It isn't useless. Reality Warping, Conceptual Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Plot Manipulation, it doesn't matter if you resist the effects if you don't resist the source. If someone uses plot manipulation to make you die instantly (Death Manipulation) on X day, you will die on that day, even if you resist Death Manipulation.

This is wrong, it's the other way around, anyone capable of either suppressing (aka, nullifying) the source of the ability or suppressing/resisting the result would be unaffected in this kind of cases, rather than someone having to resist both to not be affected.

8: The Final World isn't a normal "universe" or something like that, it's a space that exists right outside the deepest dreams of everyone's hearts, so I doubt Yang Qi can directly reach it as he'd have to go into a deep slumber while also applying KH verse semantics to his being, which would involve applying too much verse equalization (which I'd oppose) to work as him trying to do that is like trying to get into a system without being a part of that system to begin with.

So yeah, at best it's just an incon as neither can beat the other for a significant timeframe, but Sora would still be rated higher out of being netically offensively stronger and even having passive fate hax on that regard (which has often been the tiebreaker for those tier lists).

 

[Fezzih_007]

I think this already hit grace.