Chaos (Fate) VS Yang Qi (Sage Monarch)

[deonment]

Being more non-existent than another character with NEP is not enough to reach NEP Type 2, nor interacting with a character higher into NEP Type 1 would give someone the ability to interact with NEP Type 2.
It's something I don't agree at all, but it was discussed extensevely here.

Except we do and that's how multiple/most characters got NEP 2, hell glass asked for DT to come onto that thread to clarify the standards
Different contexts can mean different things, and I outright disagree with Namine qualifying for multiple reasons

1- I know Chaos scales down to the outer gods, and I have no idea how they scale to Type 2 NEP and TD2. Even the outer gods are dimensionally above them. Chaos will need to interact with 9-D first and if Chaos could interact with them, would have 9D hax layers, making him an 8D smurf, but Chaos is not smurf(in 1-C).

2-Yang Qi has infinite layers. I'm waiting for an explanation from you on how it can't scale through any layer.

Chaos scales to the outer gods

????????
No, if Chaos did they would just be flat 1-C, Chaos has its own stuff about NEP2 because it created/resides in a place that is beyond nonexistent even to Zero Musashi who is beyond INS which is i to her 0. The NEP2 doesn't just come from the Outer gods, hell we currently give the outer gods nep 2 and transduality type 2 due to upscaling scaling to stuff that is below Chaos, that being INS and Primordial Chaos, the former of which would be below Chaos' void, and the latter of which which is either lower or the exact same thing as Chaos' void (At least for the greek stuff).

Authority makes one resistant to the abilities of other authority users and those without authority, with those with greater authority being able to bypass the authority and resist the authority/powers of lower peeps

 

[ThanatosX]

Except we do and that's how multiple/most characters got NEP 2, hell glass asked for DT to come onto that thread to clarify the standards

As Glass explained in that revision, that's not the case, if it's just a character being more non-existent than another than that's far from enough to qualify. He asked for DT to come over only because me and Bob asked him to, not because he was unsure about the standards, and DT never even came over to clarify anything unfortunately. Other verses having NEP Type 2 for those reasons doesn't make that right, there a lot of misconceptions regarding that ability ever since the revision (which became worse for me after that revision), and multiple people interpreting it wrong doesn't make it right. You could ask DT to clarify this point, but I think that if he explained in the NEP revision that it doesn't work like that than I doubt that he will agree with it.

 

[Georredannea15]

Except we do and that's how multiple/most characters got NEP 2, hell glass asked for DT to come onto that thread to clarify the standards
Different contexts can mean different things, and I outright disagree with Namine qualifying for multiple reasons


????????
No, if Chaos did they would just be flat 1-C, Chaos has its own stuff about NEP2 because it created/resides in a place that is beyond nonexistent even to Zero Musashi who is beyond INS which is i to her 0. The NEP2 doesn't just come from the Outer gods, hell we currently give the outer gods nep 2 and transduality type 2 due to upscaling scaling to stuff that is below Chaos, that being INS and Primordial Chaos, the former of which would be below Chaos' void, and the latter of which which is either lower or the exact same thing as Chaos' void (At least for the greek stuff).

Authority makes one resistant to the abilities of other authority users and those without authority, with those with greater authority being able to bypass the authority and resist the authority/powers of lower peeps

Man, where are they? Why aren't any of them in the damn profiles? Then update those profiles. And if, as has been said, non-existence being more non-existence is not enough for Type 2, this should be nuked in the first place.

 

[deonment]

As Glass explained in that revision, that's not the case, if it's just a character being more non-existent than another than that's far from enough to qualify. He asked for DT to come over only because me and Bob asked him to, not because he was unsure about the standards, and DT never even came over to clarify anything unfortunately. Other verses having NEP Type 2 for those reasons doesn't make that right, there a lot of misconceptions regarding that ability ever since the revision (which became worse for me after that revision), and multiple people interpreting it wrong doesn't make it right. You could ask DT to clarify this point, but I think that if he explained in the NEP revision that it doesn't work like that than I doubt that he will agree with it.

This is about characters who got NEP type 2 on the thread for updating the types for NEP

Man, where are they? Why aren't any of them in the damn profiles? Then update those profiles. And if, as has been said, non-existence being more non-existence is not enough for Type 2, this should be nuked in the first place.

Because most of the supporters of the verse are only knowledgeable on one or two sections of the verse, and those who are actually knowledgable about the whole thing a)don't want to do a revision on a digimon sized verse by their ******* lonesome, that would be absurd to expect from someone, b) are busy with othe r shit , and c)creating an extremely large CRT for a verse this large takes time

 

[Vietthai96]

Iirc being more non-existent just mean more layer

 

[deonment]

Iirc being more non-existent just mean more layer

This aint grayscale, this is binary, you can't be more or less of something in binary, you either are or you aren't.

 

[Unqver]

Prove this one.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/question-about-transduality-2.137576/post-4816299

As states by agnaa being transdual to a duality in 4D universe wouldn't make that duality somehow extends to 5D just because you are also transdual to another duality in 5D since cases that a duality existing in lower may not exist in highe

万界王图，谁都不知道多大，似乎涵盖古今，纵横未来无数维度，就算是亿万仙界都可以装载而下。——《圣王》第677章
The King of Ten Thousand Realms map, no one knows how large it is, seems to cover countless dimensions of ancient and modern times, spanning the future. Even the billions of immortal realms can be loaded down.——Sage Monarch Chapter 677
This?

 

[Vietthai96]

This aint grayscale, this is binary, you can't be more or less of something in binary, you either are or you aren't.

I mean, that what the current standard is, so.......idk....eh ask @DontTalkDT

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/question-about-transduality-2.137576/post-4816299

As states by agnaa being transdual to a duality in 4D universe wouldn't make that duality somehow extends to 5D just because you are also transdual to another duality in 5D since cases that a duality existing in lower may not exist in higher

I still am not sure what you're arguing for. I already told you in my last post that it is within that scope of reality, not a higher infinity and you posted a mod saying the same thing...

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

What we've established so far:

• Profiles are outdated
• There is a non-zero chance that Chaos can interact with NEP (Type 2) but that still leaves TD
• Chaos has infinite hax layers, infinite AP and infinite durability on an individual basis but not range (in-terms of structures)
• Their conceptual manipulation is either outdated or not type 1

 

[Vietthai96]

Nasuverse establish it own concept system, and it can't be typed with vsbw system, anyway, no one on the wiki can resist Nasuverse concept because they the verse follow it own system, this is just another 4d invul servant physiology situation. The only thing that is CM1 in the verse is Root

 

[Robo432343]

Nasuverse establish it own concept system, and it can't be tiered with vsbw system, anyway, no one on the wiki can resist Nasuverse concept because they the verse follow it own system, this is just another 4d invul servant physiology situation. The only thing that is CM1 in the verse is Root

 

[Vietthai96]

And peoples going to call me Nasuverse wanker definitely

 

[Phoenks]

Nasuverse establish it own concept system, and it can't be tiered with vsbw system, anyway, no one on the wiki can resist Nasuverse concept because they the verse follow it own system, this is just another 4d invul servant physiology situation. The only thing that is CM1 in the verse is Root

NlF.

Just because it has its "own system" doesn't mean that system can just affect everyone else lol.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

I have gone through Chaos' resistance twice now, they only things of Yang Qi they don't resist are:

• Information Analysis
• Durability Negation
• Status Effect Inducement (useless here)
• Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1)

There is also Forced Self-Destruction but it is unknown if a characters needs to even resist this.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Just use DT Yang Qi fr.

 

[Vietthai96]

just don't use fate character

 

[Phoenks]

Anyway if the fate characters have such terrible pages I think they should be removed from the list entirely ngl.

 

[Vietthai96]

The only up to date profiles surprisingly is Root (except NEP2) and Gilgamesh and probably Servant Physilogy

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

The only up to date profiles surprisingly is Root (except NEP2) and Gilgamesh and probably Servant Physilogy

Should this match continue or do you suggest another low 1-C character?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Just use DT Yang Qi fr.

Funnily, his profile is out of date.

 

[Vietthai96]

Should this match continue or do you suggest another low 1-C character?

Should be another character, since tbf, Chaos is also close to featless, which iirc the thing oneshot Ares and then a servant who i don't remember the name, using her Noble Phatasm to close the space-time rift which Chaos come from, effectively shut the door to Chaos, since Chaos just opening a portal to oneshot Ares and the thing still in the other side of the door, Chaldea have no way to defeat it so, close the ******* door

 

[deonment]

Their conceptual manipulation is either outdated or not type 1

Eh, it actually isn't either, because even back earlier when we had type 1-4 concepts nasu concepts didn't have a type because they exhibited properties and could qualify for all of them.

And before someone tries to say smth about old standards, type 1 and 2 concepts back then still qualify for type 1 rn, type 3 back then qualifies for type 2 rn, and type 4 back then would qualify for type 3 rn (Though only because mental concepts fall under the umbrella of what type 3 covers).

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Should this match continue or do you suggest another low 1-C character?

if gil is the most updated even if not the strongest then he at least should be nominated for a match or placement

then nasuverse can go fix the top 10 ranking some othertime when they are no longer lazy

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Should be another character, since tbf, Chaos is also close to featless, which iirc the thing oneshot Ares and then a servant who i don't remember the name, using her Noble Phatasm to close the space-time rift which Chaos come from, effectively shut the door to Chaos, since Chaos just opening a portal to oneshot Ares and the thing still in the other side of the door, Chaldea have no way to defeat it so, close the ******* door

if gil is the most updated even if not the strongest then he at least should be nominated for a match or placement

then nasuverse can go fix the top 10 ranking some othertime when they are no longer lazy

The only other character I can think of is Gilgamesh because he has far more hax but I can't substitute them because Gilgamesh doesn't have HGR while Chaos does (Yang Qi can't negate HGR). I checked his profile and he only has HGR negation and he inherits (Mid-Low; Low-Mid over time) regen from the Servant page.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Eh, it actually isn't either, because even back earlier when we had type 1-4 concepts nasu concepts didn't have a type because they exhibited properties and could qualify for all of them.

And before someone tries to say smth about old standards, type 1 and 2 concepts back then still qualify for type 1 rn, type 3 back then qualifies for type 2 rn, and type 4 back then would qualify for type 3 rn (Though only because mental concepts fall under the umbrella of what type 3 covers).

I see, but shouldn't this be in a CRT then? Perhaps there might be some contention but if the above is true, it should mostly just be formality to edit said pages.

 

[deonment]

The only other character I can think of is Gilgamesh because he has far more hax but I can't substitute them because Gilgamesh doesn't have HGR while Chaos does (Yang Qi can't negate HGR). I checked his profile and he only has HGR negation and he inherits (Mid-Low; Low-Mid over time) regen from the Servant page.

Chaos by all rights has more hax, it is just that the creator of it didn't get the memo of having to list all the powers it would get from the greek gods, its actual hax list should look comparable if not longer than its list of resistances as it should be able to at least all of the stuff in that list.

I see, but shouldn't this be in a CRT then? Perhaps there might be some contention but if the above is true, it should mostly just be formality to edit said pages.

Yeah, but people are gonna want scans, and the only people who are likely to have said scans are paul, redigan, and maybe Iap or Crimson, but asking each of them has their own issues, paul is like 50/50 on if they will do it or not, Redigan doesn't have the best english, Iap is dead on site, and Crim is too busy in all likelihood.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Chaos by all rights has more hax, it is just that the creator of it didn't get the memo of having to list all the powers it would get from the greek gods, its actual hax list should look comparable if not longer than its list of resistances as it should be able to at least all of the stuff in that list.

Yeah, but people are gonna want scans, and the only people who are likely to have said scans are paul, redigan, and maybe Iap or Crimson, but asking each of them has their own issues, paul is like 50/50 on if they will do it or not, Redigan doesn't have the best english, Iap is dead on site, and Crim is too busy in all likelihood.

It is in an even worse state than I thought, my condolences. I do remember back in January I told a Nasuverse supporter I would wait, but nothing came about as far as I am aware.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

It is in an even worse state than I thought, my condolences. I do remember back in January I told a Nasuverse supporter I would wait, but nothing came about as far as I am aware.

don't wait for anyone
snatch that first place and simply defend it later one when they are no longer busy or lazy

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Anyway if the fate characters have such terrible pages I think they should be removed from the list entirely ngl.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Anyways, Yang Qi doesn't have HGR negation so he can only incap with some of the abilities I listed. The only supposed up to date character (Gilgamesh) doesn't have the regen necessary to survive.

So, uh, let voting begin I suppose.

 

[Robo432343]

no, this match should be on hold
ion think its fair for the fate supporters

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

no, this match should be on hold
ion think its fair for the fate supporters

You gotta wait for 100 years before they update the profiles.

Anyways, Yang Qi doesn't have HGR negation so he can only incap with some of the abilities I listed. The only supposed up to date character (Gilgamesh) doesn't have the regen necessary to survive.

So, uh, let voting begin I suppose.

I doubt that his Resistances lacks sources and scans

 

[Deceived3596]

I would just advocate removing the FATE characters from the list entirely if they're this outdated.

 

[John985]

Just use Zeus, he's Chaos lite.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Just use Zeus, he's Chaos lite.

More hax than Chaos but less resistances than Chaos. Putting in a worse state than this match.

 

[deonment]

It is in an even worse state than I thought, my condolences. I do remember back in January I told a Nasuverse supporter I would wait, but nothing came about as far as I am aware.

That was mostly for space-Ishtar, who is an entirely separate character who maybe could be stronger and more haxed than Chaos, but idrk
Anyways I'll prolly just ask the people who I can if they could give me the stuff for CM1 Nasu

More hax than Chaos but less resistances than Chaos. Putting in a worse state than this match.

I mean, Chaos does just get all the stuff from Zeus as Zeus and the rest of the greek gods are the machine gods that Chaos' profile mentions they have all the stuff of.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

That was mostly for space-Ishtar, who is an entirely separate character who maybe could be stronger and more haxed than Chaos, but idrk
Anyways I'll prolly just ask the people who I can if they could give me the stuff for CM1 Nasu

What would you estimate the timeline would be on that?